I need help. My WS had a sexual encounter with someone she met on the internet. It was only one night, she hasn't seen him or talked to him since. I'm obcessed with finding out the details of what happened. I know she went to dinner with him, then back to his place. He made a move and she responded. He performed oral sex on her, tried to have sex with her and she stopped him, but she finished him off manually. I have all these questions in my mind. Did she take all her clothes off? Did he ejaculate on her? Did she enjoy this? Did she feel guilt afterwards?

I only know what I know because I talked to the guy myself, who told me he didn't know she was still married. My WS refuses to talk to me about it and says that the details are inconsequential and I just need to move on and let it go. I have tried very much to not think about this, but the images keep coming into my head and I can't stop thinking of her pleasuring another man. I need to stop focusing on this and start focusing on saving our marriage for our 3 kids. I know it's normal to want to know details, but it has become a destructive desire since I'm constantly pestering her about it and she doens't want to talk about it. How have others dealt with this?

U go get help for you to get over this. Read Surviving an Affair and if you can call Jennifer @ MB for some quick phone counseling.

The reasons that took your W out there is what you need to know. She doesn't want to tell you because she still wants t/b a WS. She knows you are annoyed and will do all within her WS power to keep you that way. Then she will try to use you as an excuse to have another A. She isn't ready to quit yet and you need t/b ready to plan A, then plan B and move on. Maybe even plan D but there's time for that.

Now go do some reading, pray for a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience.

take care,
L.

Get therapy if you can. Yes it is an obsession. I won't go into my story but I will tell you that I unclogged the shower drain and looked for blonde hairs under a microscope shortly after my Dday. Not one of my prouder moments. What you feel is common to us all but it dinimishes with time. I can't say don't have those thoughts any more but they are fewer and further between. I will say from my experience that they distract you from the real problem. Orchid is right. Follow that advice. The real problem is why your WW did what she did and preventing her from doing it again and getting back to her marriage. Read SAA. Until she is ready to commit to the marriage, trying to get details will probably do more harm than good. Once she is ready to try to gain your trust again, she will understand the cost and be more forthcoming. Adopt your best coping behavior and get help if you possibly can. Time solves a lot of problems. Nearly all of them except for the problem of growing older.

I'm in IC right now and have been doing ok. The problem started when I talked to my wife during lunch yesterday. I asked her about how the whole night came about and what led her to his place. She was talking openly about things. I then had to return to the base to go on a run. While running I started coming up with the questions previously stated. There was a whole in her story. I asked her if she had touched him, which she refused to answer. He's the only one who has shared the details with me and she has confirmed them later. I know she did this, but I want to hear it from her.

I want to address the things that made her stray. She's cold to me, though, saying she has lost her love for me. I'm going to counceling, taking anti-depressants to control my mood, and have been begging her to come with me to the sessions. I still want to know a lot of things. What was she wearing that night? Did she simply pull her shirt up or take it off? Did she remove her pants, or did he?

He told me that she kept saying "We shouldn't be doing this" through the whole process. When he tried for sex, she said "I don't want to do that" and then finished him off manually. These images are killing me in my mind. I'm really not going to gain anything but pain from knowing, but why am I so obssessed?

I thought I already answered your question? You keep asking because you want what answer?

One more time....u r obessing because you don't know her reasons for straying. The details are a mystery to you and you are focusing in on those right now. Later you will find those details are sick but not as important as to why she choose to stray.

If you don't get a handle on it......she will set you up for the kill....again.

L.

I was obsessed too. I am no longer. What you thought was the most intimate of things between you and your wife has been violated. Now you are like the outsider intruding on their relationship. I wish I knew the answer to your question but I can assure you that you are not alone. I wanted to know exactly where they went for their morning interludes - which house. Still don't know the answer to that one but I am not sure if I care any more either. I want to know what she was wearing the night she went to his apartment and, more importantly, if I helped her pick the clothes because I thought she was going to a party with girlfriends. I don't know why it is that we start thinking that one typ of sex is more "acceptable" than another. Maybe it is part of the denial/bargaining process. At the end of the day it just doesn't make sense but we still do it. Anything that was done was wrong and your wife had no right to violate the sanctity of your marriage. If there were problems in the marriage, they should have been discussed. For your wife to meet a stranger on the internet and then run off and have sex is not "normal" from my POV. She needs her own IC. She could have hooked up with a serial killer for all she knew.

Trust your gut instincts. If you think something is wrong, it is better than 90% that you are correct. File away any and all "facts" you learn right now. It will help later to see if she begins telling the truth. It is easier to remember the truth than a lie.

Is your wife willing to try to work on the marriage? Has she broken contact with the OM? How is it you know this OM anyway?

Well, actually you will gain ALOT from knowing. Knowing those facts will help you understand the incident and put it in proper perspective so you can move on. This is how one DEALS with a trauma. They play the facts over and over in their head until come to terms with them. Then they can move on.

Except she is withholding the much needed facts that will enable you to do this. These are facts about YOUR OWN LIFE to which you are entitled. And as long as she continues to have secrets with the OM to which you are NOT privy, you will NEVER recover trust in your marriage. There can not be any more secrets here.

I don't think she understands how critical it is to your recovery to know this stuff. So I am going to give you a link to a letter that you can print up and hand to her. Hopefully she will comprehend that a) you have to have these facts in order to come to terms with her affair and move on and b) you have right to them since they are facts about YOUR OWN MARRIAGE.

You are not being obsessive, you are simply trying to heal from the greatest betrayal a spouse can commit; a great trauma. Yours is a HEALTHY reaction that facilitates healing.


And hopefully you are BOTH in marriage counseling to find out why she committed this horrible betrayal, because unless you find out and fix it, you are doomed to a repeat.

Josephs letter


"To Whomever,

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

(end of Joseph's Letter)

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2739000

Mel, I think that might have been one of your best posts ever.

I think I'm gonna use some of that stuff myself. Thanks.

J

Thanks, Dewt. Good to see ya, my friend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Papa, could it be you are obsessed with details because you think the story does not add up? That maybe there was more than she is admitting too?

Great Post Mel,
I printed that very same letter and give it to my W a long time ago. She quickly got the picture. It's a great resource for putting things in perspective for the WS to understand why the BS needs all the details if so desired.
It's a way, as painful as it may be, for the WS to demonstrate that they are totally commited to radical honesty from this point forward. Without that, trust will never be restored, and R has only a slim chance.
All Blessings,
Jerry

I know she's cutoff contact with the OM. I've talked to him and know she considers what happened a mistake. The problem is that she hasn't shared the details with me of what happened. I know generally what happened. We've discussed the things that she's been unhappy about in our marriage, but this incident is something she refuses to talk about. I got the details by talking to OM, who was the one that told me something happened when I stumbled into a message from him to her.

I hear different things on this post about this subject. On one hand, I hear that the details themselves are unimportant and the desire for them will diminish over time. Something really bad happened, dwelling on details will not accomplish anything. On the other, I hear people say that the details are important for me to put it into context and heal. Does it really matter if he ejaculated on her? What position she was in when she pleased him manually? If she was partially clothed or completely naked?

Seriously, is any of this important? I obcess over the details, but am I going to gain anything by knowing?

You have to decide what you need to heal. You have been wronged. You know if you can move on or not with the details.

For me, if I ever get to the point of recovering my M, I would have a zillion questions of this ongoing affairs. I have many nights now when I wonder so many things. Right now it is not healthy for me. But if I was in the position you are in, I would need to know these things to personally recover.

Everyone is different. SOme might not want to know. You seem to want to. I understand and I agree. The letter ML posted makes perfect sense to me.

Once you know the details, then I think it would be unhealthy for you to obsess over them. Deal with them, yes. Decide if you can stay with the knowledge of them, yes. Replay them over and over in a self-destructive way, no. Without the knowledge, you'll never even have the choice.

It is not the actions that are eating you alive--it's the unknowing.

Do you have a plan to heal and rebuild your trust in your marriage and fix the problems that were in the marriage before this?

Here's my take,
in my mind's eye, their sexual encounter rivaled any porn flick every made. She was the most wonderful partner he could ever have imagined.

Was it really like that? Nope. It was not great sex like we have together. She was not beautiful and sensual, etc.

But in my mind it was. I wanted details. I had imagined it so many times in my head- there was nothing he could say that would rival those images.

I finally wrote down my questions about details and told him that these were things I needed to know. I also told him that he wasn't going to shock me and that I had already imagined every scenerio.

He answered my questions. No, it was not where as wonderful as the images in my head portrayed. Once he answered the questions I felt some relief and the flashbacks lessened.

Now 8 almost 9 months later, I still have questions that come up for more details- not about the sex but about emotions, what they talked about, etc.

I write them down. I wait a few days, if they are still important, then I ask them, If not, I let them pass. I am learning what I really need to know. Because I have been so honest with him about my need to know, he is good about answering.

Do I ever ask the same question twice? You bet. Why? Honestly, to make sure I get the same answer. It is building trust back when he gives me the same answer.

give her the joseph letter and let her see your need

Are you in counsleing together? Maybe this is something that could be shared with the MC as mediator.

take care

If you don't know the facts about the affair, you will usually imagine the WORST. Again, knowing the facts helps you put the affair into it's proper context and facilitates healing. If there are secrets between the OM and your W to which you are not privy, then trust will not be restored.

Maybe you don't need to know each and every sordid little detail, but just her WILLINGNESS to tell you what you NEED to know and answer all your questions fully and honestly, will help her restore the trust she destroyed. But her refusal to answer only FURTHER ERODES trust, Papaof3. It sends the message that a) she is keeping secrets and b) your feelings don't matter. Not a very good message to send when the marriage has already been delivered a serious blow.

Radical honesty is the KEY to a good marriage, Papaof3,a nd the KEY to recovery after an affair. Without it, recovery is impossible. Dr. Harley places honesty about the affair at the TOP OF THE LIST in the Four Rules of Protection required to salvage a marriage devastated by deceit and adultery:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5065_qa.html

Papaof3
Obsessive nature of some people( of which I am also) will compell them to have every minute detail of exactly what occured. I was the same way, believe me. It seems to show up more in men than it does women. Dr. Shirley Glass(Not Just Friends)has stated: "Men want details, women want to know if you're in love with OP."
All the replies you have received are correct, in that, if you want details, then you indeed must have them. That's those missing puzzle pieces talked about in Joseph's Letter.
On the other hand, it is equally, if not more so, important to discover the problems in your M that led to it's vunerablity. There needs to be a balance of both of these needs. Recovery is a very complicated process once there has been unfaithfulness. It's what we commonly reffer to here as the rollar coaster ride, that unfortunately, you must now begin. Really hurts when you never even bought a ticket <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />.
Try to put some balance into your needs right now. Other posters are equally right in stating your need to find out the why of your wife's A.
BTW, how long is it since your DDay? This would help all understand where you are in R process and so forth.
One more thing,concerning OM, What makes you think he is being totally truthful to you? You can't even begin to think he is being honest with you. He's trying to cover his own [censored] in this matter.
I wish you all the best,
Blessing,
Jerry

No, your desire for them won't diminish, it will GROW. It will be an obsession with you to drag it out her little by little until you have all the facts. Your obsession will GROW, not diminish if those facts are withheld from you. Your psyche needs those facts and will not rest until you have them. You will have no peace until you get the entire story out in the open.

And every little drib that you drag out of her [you won't be able to stop yourself] will put you back to Day 1 of recovery, because it will feel like a fresh betrayal. It is like dying a death of a thousand cuts.

You will have SEVERAL D-Days as every new drib comes out you go back to day 1.

It took me a year of HE11 to drag every little detail out of my H and even he agrees now that it was all for naught. Had he just opened up and given me what I needed in order to heal, we would have recovered much sooner. We could have put the sordid details behind us and worked on repairing our marriage.

But you can't fix the roof if you CAN'T SEE THE LEAKS. You will just grope around in the dark like a blind man. Could you imagine trying to fix your leaky roof in the dead of night? Well, that is what your W is asking you to do here.

But, you won't have anymore peace tomorrow than you have today when someone is wrongly withholding the facts about your life. But don't take my word for it. Just see for yourself.

You have a right to these facts. You have a NEED for those facts, in order to heal. But don't take my word for it, read the link from Dr Harley about how RADICAL HONESTY is imperative in order to recover. IMPERATIVE. TOP OF THE LIST.

Melody,

Could you point me in the direction of the link you're speaking of? I would be interested in reading it.

froz, the one about radical honesty? Here it is: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5065_qa.html