Guys I know a lot of you and *previous yous* (ones that have no need to post here anymore) have had great success with certain methods. One I wanted to address was the cold turkey method of No Contact.

Demanding cold turkey as a way to end love, an affair and rebuild a failed/flawed love seems to me a really flawed and dangerous way to go.

From the ages of roughly 17 to 22 I was a drug addict. Not just any kind of an addict, but a world class one. I had perfected my use of dozens of drugs to maintain highs that would last for days. Others would overdose and get sick… others would get stupid and dim… I just roared along high as a kite and had the time of my life.

The lifestyle was amazing. I had more money than God, I had sex with more women that I can even begin to remember. I had the perfect relationship; the girl was my bed mate, my best friend, my mentor, my mother, my sister: everything I wanted and needed without any strings.

I sorted my finances with an exciting *job* working for an organization that provided goods and services to people. My job was to convince certain clients to pay their bills or otherwise deliver messages. I had an alter ego of sorts. In the evenings I would assume the role and descend into the underworld, in the mornings I would return to “my” reality, much richer and continue my high.

During this time I was shot, stabbed, beaten and demoralized beyond all human belief (this of course realized from the comfort of hindsight). Amazingly though I was so deeply in love with the lifestyle. I loved the drugs, the violence, the thrill, the rampant sex. All of it.

As my 20s bloomed I started to wish I was normal. I paid lip service to “going straight”, not committing heinous acts against men. “Being a good person”. I remember one night talking to my partner about “normal people” and what it was like to be a college kid… I remember distinctly saying and really meaning “I want to be normal” then turning to a man and snapping his arm in two.

My lover never pushed me to be “normal” she only said she would be there for me when I was ready to do whatever I wanted. This played right into my needs as I had built an entire mythology/alternate reality to support and justify my lifestyle. “Is it good to shoot someone?” “Sure it is. They would have shot you”. “Hey this lifestyle is great. It’s productive too. Look I just gave 10K to some homeless dude” It was perfectly normal to sleep with my true love (that I didn’t realize was at the time) and then hours later have oral sex with some strange girl in the bathroom of a club…. THEN return to my lover and discuss it.

This was one wicked screwed up life.

Folks, even in the business that were my friends/confidants begged me to quit. My lover manipulated me… coached me toward “normality” even though she was in no way near normal and an addict herself. My parents begged me… My few “normal” friends begged me. I was offered alternatives, help, love and concern. I rejected it all.

One day I was tasked with hurting someone through a family member. That day I will never forget. The family member was a young girl… maybe 6. I remember standing over her bed holding my stiletto dressed in the trappings of my lot in life and something snapped. That night I paid that man’s bill. His family was safe. He was safe. I was broke financially, but the richest man in the world. That little girl gave me a greater gift than she would ever imagine. When said good night to my “friends” that night. They had no idea it would be 10 years before I said “Hello” again.

6 months later. I was totally drug free and as poor as dirt. I worked in a pet shop for minimum wage and was dating the mousy manager who would later become a wife and I had No Contact with anyone or anything from that lifestyle.

I walked away from what I considered an idyllic life to be poor and “boring” willingly and comparatively easily because *I* wanted to. I was lucky to have people to support me during those months… but *I* made the decision and because *I* did… I have never regretted it or felt I was forced into something I didn’t want to do.

So now we come to our mutual problem. Our spouses are all unfaithful. Some are in love with others, some are just seeking thrills and I suppose some are just confused.

All of us have the same goal… to recapture the love and faithfulness of our mate.

Being in love is an addiction. Honestly it is *exactly* like being a heroin addict only less violent and severe. Chemicals fire off in your brain, you suffer physical symptoms of separation. Psychologically you will manufacture reality and alter your belief systems to accommodate what you are doing.

*If* you are in the situation where your mate is honestly and deeply in love and she/he still loves you as well, then I caution you NOT to demand cold turkey.

No drug addict in the world has ever quit for good on the basis of a request from someone else, do yourself a favor and don’t expect that your spouse will be any different. He/She might be, but don’t count on it. Remember they may *want* to be yours totally… but they often cannot.

Saying “I love you” is easy. Actually doing it often isn’t. It’s so easy for us to be selfish and wallow in self pity. To embrace the pain like a special friend and find a comfortable spot in it. It’s easy for us to jumble feelings and transpose our hatred for ourselves for “letting this happen” to other things.

If you honestly love your spouse then you need to remember that. You need to *help* them and not be so self serving. *Understand* them. Accept what is happening at face value and help them move forward.

I’m sure not all situations will allow this… but I do know that many well might. I encourage you to explore your reality and see if this is applicable to you.

Love can be tough. Sometimes we need to put aside our own needs for the one we love. Consider tempering your Plan As and Plan Bs with true love. The kind of selfless love that requires you to put aside your own needs, that requires you to weep alone in the closet. The kind of love that your spouse will appreciate one day as *the real thing*.

I’m not saying that every case needs this kind of care. What I am though is that every case should have this as a consideration and that *if* you truly care for your partner, you should do whatever it takes. Sometimes that means opening the door and turning away. If they return they do so like I did, free from their inner demons and ready to begin a future with you that will last a life time.

I’m not at all saying that traditional methods of Plan A - B … No Contact are not valid. What I am saying is that all people are different, all situations are different and when folks WANT to do something… well contact, no contact or whatever will not change that.

It’s easy to love. It’s easy to show it fully in good times or when it’s fresh. It’s when there are bad times or when the *right thing* for your love isn’t necessarily the right thing for you that it becomes hard.

The measure of love here is not what your wayward spouse will do for you… they are wayward for a reason. It’s what you will do for them.

I could not agree more, JEL Deltona. The WS must want to break the addiction him/herself. The WS is the one who must decide to come back and make the marriage work. NC is necessary to break the addiction (as is withdrawal), but if they are forced to do it, resentment will build over time and will probably either go back to the lover or leave the relationship at some point, anyway.

Yes, sometimes love means letting go. Your spouse is not your property. He/She is a fellow human being, and you are a guest in his/her heart, not the owner. I think Harley addresses this beautifully in some of his writings, when he encourages spouses to "become experts at meeting your spouse's emotional needs," and he also said in an article, "it is an honor for her to allow you to meet her needs." This is so true.

It's easy to think of meeting our spouse's needs as some type of burden, or duty. It's too easy to get comfortable and begin forgetting what a treasure this person is. We forget that we commit to our marriage vows daily. It's not "Once married, always married," it's a daily choice to keep the relationship alive. And that applies to the NC concept: forcing a spouse to "tow the line," is a dangerous way to recover from an affair. I agree that just conpensation for an affair is NC, but this begins only after the WS has committed to the marriage of their own accord.

Thanks for sharing. I appreciated hearing your story and perspective.

Your thread caught my attention as it is pertinent to my situation. My H made the decision to leave OW and come home to work on our M after only 5 weeks. The conditions were NC and MC. We started MC last week and our R was going well but over the last 2 days, he has spoken with OW on the phone. He claims that it is not C and that he has told her not to call but it doesn't add up. I don't know if I should make a big deal of this or not. If he is still working on our M and not seeing her, is it completely wrong for him to have casual phone C with OW? He says he loves me and won't do anything to hurt our M again. I thought it was wrong but after seeing your post, I wonder if I am LB by forcing the NC. Should I continue to meet his EN and hope that he will accomplish NC in his own way? C is limited and he has not seen her and claims that he will never let any R cross the line again.

I don't know what to do. I am very upset that he is speaking w OW even for a minute but we are moving in the right direction. AM I thinking only of myself?

Thanks for your point of view. It makes sense. I would love to hear your opinion of my situation.

Nkay

I've got tears in my eyes. Sometimes the great writings on these posts inhibits me from responding. My H had an affair 10 years ago. He came to me only after my best friend threatened to disclose to me. I was very vulnerable, stay at home mom to three boys. We went NC (or so he said), only to find out later that there were still lunches, meetings, phone calls, communication. He finally sent a letter to her new husband (she was engaged during the A) to make it stop. It took me 5 years to heal.

Fast forward to this year - I found out about another this january while trying to save files from a crashing computer. Caught him red handed - I couldn't believe the beautiful poems, emails, etc. He said he told her NC, but while searching old emails from his work laptop, I found communication offering to set up a hotmail account because I had all his passwords to others.

He said he never set it up. Last night at a big family party at my in-law's, I searched him out in the office and he immediatly closed down something on the computer. I searched the internet history right there in front of him and sure enough hotmail was the last site listed.

So, another sleepless night, another teary morning. He doesn't think this is worth splitting the family over. I can't take the emotional upheaval any longer.,

He's in the den with me right now composing a NC letter to her and showed it to me. He says he "loves his family and is committed to his wife and his vows" and that he knows that he can't have honest and open communication with me if he continues contact.

What bothers me and is making me cry is that the letter he wrote didn't say he loves me. I can't continue trying to make this man love me. I'm not sure if it is going to work - But Dr. Phil says you're not ready for divorce until you can talk about it without emotion, regret, or sorrow. I don't know if I'll ever be in that place.


Thanks for you post, JEL - you have helped me tremendously.

-TT

I am really struggling with NC myself. My wife has a job that she loves and that she has had for 10 years. She does not want to leave, she swears she can just professional with OM, that she is past withdrawal and it isn't affecting our recovery. It's been 9 months since D-day, she went back to work 3 months ago after a 6 month leave. I have wanted her to quit since D-day. We are not really getting anywhere, although we just started with MB. I know that if I give her an ultimatum to quit and she does she will resent it and never forgive me, or she will choose the job. She doesn't see that seeing him everyday is slowing down our recovery or making it impossible. I'm hoping SH can convince to leave, or she becomes so committed to the marriage that she wants to leave.

Mr C -You should post this on your GQII thread. Much more traffic there.

Dear friend:
Reading your note was an inspiration, your approach to addicition seems to me more realistic, my hb and i are both phycisians and he is the one having the A. Please read my note posted on aug 20 "Help plan A not working".
He tells me that cold turkey seems imposible because that person is not a bottle of alcohol or drug, she interacts, have feelings, have an influence in him, also he works directly with her.
He truly wants to know how to break the addiction after just ending the affair appears unrealistc (already try once and didnt work)
He is trying to convince himself why that person is not the one for him, he tells he, but still want see see her and feels compelled to do it.
I believe in his love for me, I love him more than anything.
Could you please comment more on my situation and specifically your opinion in his addictive state...should I just wait?
giraldilla3

Jel,



While you have a very interesting story and it is well told , you contradict your premise in several of your last paragraphs. You also have taken your personal struggle and extrapolated your emergence as a valid course to follow.

Drug + drug addict= 2

WS + OP + BS = 3

Have you ever considered the fact that the drug addiction dynamic fails to explain the third member of the A equation, the BS????????

No contact is as much of a tool for the defense of the BS as it is necessary for the WS.


BTW have you ever considered turning yourself in to the authorities for the criminal acts that you have confessed to here on MB?

JEL,

Your post is full of crap. Thanks for stopping by this site... where many, many people are suffering, in pain and seeking help... and posting a long-winded, self-justifying sob story that goes against MB principles. And then LEAVING, never to post again.

I am a FWW. While it's true that an addict will only stop when they are ready, the tools offered here break the fantasy of the A and bring the WS back to reality. When faced with potentially losing his or her spouse (or hiting "rock bottom" as one might say) THEN the addict/WS must make the decision. Exposure and Plan A assist with this decision.

Believe me, I lived it.

To all of the good folks out there... who are working the MB principles... do NOT listen to this "take on No Contact" and stay the course. NC is absolutely 100% necessary, and Plans A and B have worked for many, many people.

God Bless you in your journeys...

Katie Mae

Hi Mr-C,

I just read your post. I'm in a similar situation. My H also refuses to quit his job. He swears that he's ended it with OW and that he can continue to work with her in a strictly professional manner. He loves his job. He's been there 7 years and is highly respected and a leader. He said that I was making selfish demand on him by asking him to quit. The working togther is just killing me. I can't stand it. I feel like it is blocking our recovery. We've already been to two counselors and neither one backed up the MB no contact rule. I'm so afraid that if I keep pushing the issue he will resent me for it. Let me know if you come up with a solution. I'll be praying for your situation as well.
DE

J-D
So you think it is loving to leave a WS to their addiction ? Thats the kind of 'love' Sid Vicious' Mom gave him just a little heroin to stop her poor boy jonesing.

Killed him dead. Her too eventually. Some love THAT is !

I think that ultimately the WS has to prioritise their BS over themselves and their OP and that means NC, but of course they are at liberty to NOT do that. And teh BS is at liberty to decide what they will accept and what they will not.

You should read some Marriagebuilders concepts. If you did you;d see that plan B actually removes the BS from interference in their WS'affair, and does not require "NC".

What you appear to be advocating is the allowing of "cake eatin" - that is letting the WS stay in contact while also being in their marriage.

This doesn't work, again MB study would help you here. Every contact after d-day resets the withdrawal clock of the WS back to zero. And theres no chance of the marriage being rebuilt until withdrawal has progressed to such a time as the WS cloak of rationalisation has dropped. What you advocate would never allow this to happen.

You may disagree with this from your experience, but Harley has counselled thousands of couples. I trust his conclusions over yours.

This is the most disrespectful, absurd post I have ever read! How dare you come on a site with hurting people and spout your drivel! I am both a FWW and a BS 3 times over and I can tell you that Harley's methods are tried and true and NC for life is for a reason. "love" does not play into adultery, it is lust, selfishness and justifications pure and simple.

My guess is this person is an OW or a WS. What would AA say if someone said they wanted to "taper" off the alcohol? BTW, you obviously do not understand PLAN A because it is the most SELFLESS ACT a BS has to do in their lives. Standing strong and being a lighthouse to your wandering spouse is a "hero's gig" (thanks bob pure) and is darned hard.

AND my H admitted when he finally went NC with the OW that the last time he got drawn back into C was JUST ONE CONVERSATION and he was hooked again. That is all it took!

Agree with KatieMae, BobPure and Faithful Follower.

Of all Harley's basics for recovery from an affair, NC is the first most important one. Recovery is impossible while there is any contact. And for those of you who are "relieved" reading the first post in this thread - carefully examine why you feel relieved. Blowing sweet sunshine in your ear may sooth you for a while but it won't help you recover your marriages.

For those of you who continue to work with OP or your spouse continues to work with their affair partner - you are not in recovery.

NC is essential. It is the single most damaging thing to an affair. It breaks the addiction.

Gee, even with drug addiction, cold turkey is the go.

Of all Harley's basics for recovery from an affair, NC is the first most important one. Recovery is impossible while there is any contact.AMEN!!!,
I agree totally, and I was totally relieved just to read Dr Harley say that , but sadly in my case my husband would not stop contact with her his excuss is his 3 kids he has with her. so what is one to do in this situation?.

For anyone who is not acquainted with my story, I am one of those who has first-hand experience with a WS trying to end an A in the hot-turkey fashion.

"We are just friends" quickly became "I can't hurt her by giving her up (but I don't want to hurt you, either)."

"I am trying to ease her away slowly" became "Bend over and let me give it to (her) from behind." (And worse.)

It is NEVER possible to break the addiction while any contact remains. It is not possible for the addict to "ease away slowly". All that happens is they ease back into the OP's pants.

Take it from someone who has been there: NC is the only way to go.

DBride, there are quite a few folks on here with OC, some with C and some without. Why don't you start a thread asking specifically about how they have dealt with it? I wouldn't want your question to get buried over here.

My H has ended affair but still works with OW occassionally. I've asked him to find new job but he refuses. Working on plan A first. I'm giving it 6 mo.

Thing is Daisy, the affair is ongoing while there is contact. You must understand without NC you cannot recover from this. It is impossible. You haven't even started recovery yet. The affair is still ON!!!!!!!!