(I'm copying and pasting this from the PlanA/PlanB forum with LA's advice. Thanks LA <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
)
Hi Everyone,

I’m new here, although I’ve been lurking for over a month. I’m hoping that you can give me some hope back. I’ve been with my boyfriend for 14 years—although we did break up for 6 weeks over 10 years ago. He told me that he was “bored and in a rut”. More on this breakup will come later in my story.

Needless to say, we got back together—he called me every two weeks while we were broken up and then we ended up watching movies together one night and we’ve been together ever since. Things haven’t been as good the last few years. I was the manager of a restaurant—which means at least 50-60 hours a week and that meant that I didn’t spend as much time with him as I could have. I ended up moving in with him over 5 years ago. Anyway, his mother ended up getting Alzheimer’s and her doctor said that she needed 24-hour care. We couldn’t afford to put her in a nursing home and he made a higher rate than me, so we decided that it would be best if I left my job to stay at home with her. Part of me resented this—his mother hated me—not because I was rude or anything, but because I’m overweight—but I figured it was the best thing for our family so that was okay.

I’ve had a really bad 3-4 years—I’ve lost 6 people, my career, and I ended up gaining A LOT of weight—150 lbs. to be exact—due to depression. I found out in August of 2005 that my bf was cheating on me. His mother had passed away in May so I really don’t have anything keeping me here. I have no children, but I do have 3 dogs who are my world and my bf’s world. But I do love him and I honestly believe that our relationship is worth all of this trouble. It just hurts so damn much at times.

After finding out about his little girlfriend, I actually sat down and thought about if I did still love him and want to be with him. When my answers came up “yes”, I then thought about myself and what had I done wrong and how could I fix myself. Of course the first thing I could start working on was my attitude—I realized that my depression was ruining everything and that was enough to wake me up, so to speak. (I wasn’t clinically depressed, just depressed because of the losses and stuff that kept happening to me. Not a year went by where I didn’t lose someone who I cared about. I didn’t have time to properly grieve for one person before I lost another.) I woke up which is the important thing.

Anyway, the next thing I could work on right away was my weight. On August 9, 2005 I began my weight loss journey and I’ve lost 110 lbs. to date. It’s hard work, but nothing feels as good as losing weight does. Yes, if any of you are wondering, August 9th is the day that I found out for sure about my bf’s “friend”. Well, I figured that working on myself would be key to winning him back and I was right. He noticed the changes that I was making and he stopped calling her and seeing her. At this point he didn’t even know that I knew about her. I was afraid that he would choose her over me and I couldn’t handle that so I didn’t say anything to him about what I knew.

Well, he wasn’t calling her or going to see her—I knew where she lived and I was checking his cell phone bill so I knew that I was right, and on October 5th we were actually “friendly” if you know what I mean, for the first time in a very long time. I was so happy and hopeful because it was good. Until October 10, 2005 when my bf got a message that he had to go see OW because she was pregnant. Supposedly she didn’t know about me until this night. I find this hard to believe because my SIL called OW and left her a voice mail about how she couldn’t get her own man she had to try to steal someone else’s. I didn’t know about my SIL phone call until December, but looking back I think it’s kind of—what’s the word—convenient that my SIL calls her in August and the OW gets pregnant in September. But what do I know, right? Oh yeah--and I also recently found out that when he broke up with me 10 years ago it was because he had met her and they went out a few times and she was a virgin and then she ended up blowing him off.


My bf told me that he would never see her again if she lost the baby—and she did lose the baby on February 1st. My bf and her had talked on this Wednesday night. She wanted to know what was going on, the baby was going to be born soon and she wanted to move into the house to get things ready and he told her—again—that he didn’t want that and she said, “So you don’t want to be with me anymore? You don’t want to see your daughter?” She started crying and then hung up on him. She went to bed and woke up feeling weird a few hours later so she went to the E.R. and it turned out that the baby was already dead. Because she was a high risk pregnancy—her doctor’s didn’t even want her to stay pregnant because she has diabetes, high blood pressure and only one kidney that works—anyway, because of her medical problems they went in right away and took out the baby and her last ovary. Did I forget to mention that she only had one ovary in addition to all of her other problems? So she told my bf a week later about losing the baby and he didn’t see her again.

Again, everything was good for over a month and then he started acting edgy again. I was able to get a hold of his cell phone and I discovered that she had called him again. I guess that she’s having a hard time dealing with the miscarriage and she said that she still loves him and doesn’t blame him for her losing the baby—even though he “pushed her over the edge.” So I’ve been investigating and I found out that he’s been to her house 3X in the last month. So okay, it’s not over.

Now he’s telling me that he needs space and that we see too much of each other and that he thinks I should get my own apartment. He said that he’s not going to move her in if I move out and that we’ll still be able to see each other and I’m like??? I don’t know what to do anymore. I’ve been doing Plan A and I guess I just need ideas on what else to do. I’ll be honest—I don’t have the money right now to move out so I’m kind of in a bind here. Oh—about her—he said that she’s really hurting and messed up because of losing the baby and she’s making a lot of bad decisions right now. He’s only been by to see her because he feels guilty.

When she isn’t in the picture he actually likes me, talks to me like I’m a person and not to blame for all of the crap in his life, he WANTS me—and when she’s in the picture I’m to blame for everything and never mind sex—I just can’t compare to her. She’s younger, thinner, more aggressive—and I’m still 90 lbs. overweight and of course my self confidence is at an all time low because of this whole mess. Why would I feel comfortable approaching him when I feel like I can’t compete in this way?

Tonight he went out. He told me that he thinks I should go out at night. I did last night—it was my nephew’s 1st birthday and we always have a little party on the actual day for the kids—and I came home at 8:30. I’m wondering if he went out tonight because I went out last night. That would be just like him. This isn’t the first time that he’s acted like a child when I’ve done things—even when he told me to do them. He doesn’t even realize that either. It’s like payback to me because I left him alone in the house. He won’t come with me so…

He also told me that I should find myself a boyfriend and then get married and have kids before it's too late. Like WTF? I just don't know what to do anymore. The thing is, I honestly believe that he’s in this “fog” that I’ve read about. Especially because of how he treats me when she’s not in the picture. So if any of you have any advice, I would appreciate it. Sorry this is so long--I figured you needed to know what's up before you can offer any advice. Thanks for taking the time to read it.

Just wanted to add that I now know for sure that he's at her house tonight. I'm devastated and just want to throw up--either that or die. Not that I would ever hurt myself, but the pain is just so overwhelming...



The above 2 posts were originally written on Wednesday night, March 22. I moved this one from the PlanA/Plan B forum as well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hurting,

So what do you want? You have been with this man for more than a decade and I asume that he has been unwilling to commit to marriage vows.

First and foremost, you need to work on you. Have you had any IC? Is BF willing to go to joint counseling?

I suspect that he is feeling sorry for OW, but that will only keep him seeing her for awhile if he has no other true feelings for her.

In the end, remember that she can't force him into loving her thru guilt or threats or any other means. And neither can you.

IMVHO, I am not sure since you aren't married and you have no children that you shouldn't move on.

Who

Before you move out...will you find out if in your state you are his common-law wife? I think it is important.

Do you think you have a mindset that says, your SO has rights...or what he decides...his home, his way...is right?

This is where I would start...with your mindset. You know you've hung in there for 14 years for a reason or two...time to get to them and see if they're valid and where's the payoff.

With you, kiddo...saw your post to the old thread...

LA

OMG--I just got off the phone with the OW. She called me back because I had found out that one of my friends called her and left some really snotty voice mail messages. I felt so STUPID after hearing that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Here I've felt that I could hold my head up high because I didn't stoop down that low, you know? Because of that I felt that OW deserved an apology from me. Anyway--it was a pretty decent conversation--35 minutes long. We talked about everything that had happened and she said that she has told him that she doesn't want him or need him in her life. He's not good enough for her, she said. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I'm not a holy roller by any means--in fact I'm Wiccan--but every time I pray to God I get my prayers answered. Every day I pray that she finds the strength to keep going on after losing the baby, and the strength to do what she knows she has to do. I pray for myself too, and for him. I always pray that she is out of our lives for good and that she finds another man who thinks she's the best thing since sliced bread and puts her up on a pedestal. Why do I do this even though she's the OW, you ask? She didn't know about me until September when she told him she was pregnant.

I'm hoping and praying that this is all true and that it will be the end of it--allowing that stupid fog to clear away. Cross your fingers for me, please. I know that technically we aren't married, but I honestly love him so, so much and I want to make our relationship work. I've been Plan A'ing my heart out and I need more ideas on what to do. I've been making changes to myself, making home a nice place for him to be, being nice--trying not to LB, but that one can be hard <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />--I've just started where I'm not where he expects me to be. To be honest, I usually just go and hang out with my friends at work or read a book at the park--LOL--but he doesn't know that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Do I just all of a sudden start going out with my friends at night when before I would stay home with him? How do I talk to him? Meaning what should my attitude be like? Should I be upbeat or just matter of fact? Sometimes Plan A makes me feel like a bigger doormat than I actually am, but I want our relationship to work so I'm doing it. Any advice will be appreciated. I've been reading here and you are all so inspiring to me--all of your stories give me the strength to carry on and NOT give up. Well, I've got to go. Thanks for listening.

THe OW is trying to pull you into her web of lies and deciet. She isn't your friend. Never was, never gonna be. You don't owe her anything but a request to keep out of your life. If she doesn't abide to it, you take whatever action necessary.

You s/b glad your friends are speaking out in your behalf.

Now for you, you should go read the book: Love must be Tough (Dobson) and Surviving an Affair (Harley).

After you check out your legal status (common-law), it's best you get out of this sitch b4 there are more complications.

Your Bf needs to earn your trust back....no more apologies, ok? Right now the BF is babbling like a WS idiot and he doesn't even qualify t/b a WS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

JMHO,
L.

You are so right Orchid! She ended up calling him and saying all sorts of stuff. Supposedly my conversation with her upset her so much that she's in the hospital again. She has really high blood pressure. Anyway--I did not say anything to her to push her over the edge and my BF came home and basically said I had crossed the line and he wanted me out. I had crossed the line because I had called her to apologize--not her calling me to keep me on the phone for 35 minutes with her telling me that she doesn't want him anymore because he's not good enough for her. I said to her--
"I love him so much. Me--if he came home tonight and said he wanted to work on our relationship I would be the happiest woman in the world." This is the truth too. You know what though? It's not my fault if she can't handle the truth. I should have never talked to her KNOWING that she would twist everything that I said. What a really rotten person she is.

Get this though--he's more upset that I didn't tell him I called her to apologize--he feels "betrayed" by this. What is wrong with him? It doesn't matter--I'm still getting an apartment and I'll be out soon. At least I have time now--he came home and apologized for overreacting but he still needs his space and stuff. Whatever. Honestly--I don't think that I will ever be in a relationship again. From the men that I know it's just not worth it. The ones who I know are all lying cheaters--I'm not just talking about my BF either. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I just cannot risk myself again and I won't. I'm not saying I won't find little "friends" once in a while, but loving someone again. Nah-ah--won't happen. Thanks for listening.

I live in MA--I don't think they recognize common law marriage here. Does anyone know?

You never owe the OW an apology. That's equivalent to thanking the theif for rifling through your house and taking the best of what you have. I don't think so......

So if he is angry, he is a full fledged WS and will never be happy.

As for the OW being in the hospital, that's good. She can't handle rejected and probably visits that psycho ward regularly.

JMHO,
L.

Update! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

He came home and apologized for overreacting and things are okay as of right now. But--this morning he started talking to me about it and he asked me what I had said. So I told him. He said that he was getting 2 different stories and then he told me that if I was lying he would know because there are taps on the house lines. I said "Then go check them. I have NOTHING to hide." I wasn't rude to her and I didn't say anything that could send her over the edge. He told me to write it all down so he could compare. He then said--again--that our stories were totally different. He also admitted that he doesn't have a listening device on the phones--obviously he was just trying to trap me into being all worried and stuff. He was actually pretty surprised that I said so go listen. I don't remember what else he said but at one point he said he was trying to figure out who the psycho was and I wasn't doing much because my voice got higher and my got all big--I just looked at him in disbelief and said--"That would the disbelief that I'm feeling right now. You've known me for 14 years and I have NEVER done anything to anyone to knowingly hurt them. Ever."

The best part about this whole conversation though--he said he wants to figure out who the liar is--I promise you guys--it really isn't me--but then he said it would obviously be easier to cut her out because she's not entrenched in his life. I know it's not a lovey dovey statement, but he is NOW faced with the fact that I can leave within days and I think he realizes that he can't--or doesn't want to--lose me. I'm hoping anyway. I say this because his whole attitude has changed--even from before. This man knows me and he knows how I am. I think she's made a drastic error. What do you all think?

I think you did great. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Notice how he tried to deceive you so he could find out what he already knew t/b the truth?

Btw, the OW in my case is a pscyho and did the same thing. Ows love to keep the WS' unstable and make up stories so their A has that tinge of fantasy or horror. LOL!!

You need to learn to reverse babble a bit and play back his own words to him. Mine finally admitted that I was not a liar but the OW was. I then replayed his words on d/d that the OW was an honest and loyal person....his then 'new best friend.'

For the WS, the OW went from, friend, to best friend, to OW, to pscycho all in less than 2 years. For me she went from OW to psycho immediately. LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

Hurting,

You said the OW told you
Has it crossed your mind that this woman is smarter than you? That is if what she said in the quote is the truth. If you switch the words "her" for "me" and "she" for "I" then I think you have the position I would be taking. You have a lot to accomplish personally and I hope one of them is to get employment. You need the "freedom" of having your own income. Your BF is not someone to be trusted that much is clear.

Given that you are a Wiccan, I am not sure on your stance about marriage, but I would suggest that if you would like to get married and you have been living with him for 10 years, that this is NOT going to happen with him unless something very drastic changes. What would that be?

It would be YOU and your current circumstances. You need to get a job if you don't have one. You need to continue to work on yourself as you have been, and you need to find a man that appreciates YOU. It could be your BF, but the odds are higher that it could be someone else. Don't let life pass you bye as you wait for a man that is: an adulterer, a liar, and not committed.

Sounds harsh coming from someone on a marriage building site doesn't it? But the reality is that your relationship and possible marriage (if that is what you want) will not happen or last unless many things change and the principle one to make these changes is you. Make your life what you want it and remember the OW's quote. She is right, but it is not about her it is about YOU and BF.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Hi everyone--

things are going pretty well. Saturday afternoon we were talking and he told me that my dogs don't want to live in an apartment. I just matter of factly told him, "Yeah? Well neither do I." And I just dropped it and didn't say anything else. I went to work at 4:00--just knowing that he might be either seeing or talking to her--and I usually call to see if he's hungry and wants me to take dinner home. Well I didn't call because, to be totally honest, I didn't want to know if he WASN'T here. It would just get me depressed and miserable at work. To make a long story short--he was home. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I was so happy and I'll be honest again--kind of surprised.

We were talking on Sunday morning and he again mentioned how the dogs don't want to live in an apartment. I didn't say anything to that--what can I say after all?
He then asked, "Do you have all of your stuff packed?" I shrugged and said, "Most of it." He paused for a minute and told me,
"Well you might as well put it back." I nodded my head and said,
"So you don't want me to move out now?" To which he replied,
"No. I never really did. I was just so hurt and angry I didn't know what else to do."
So that's good. At least we know that he doesn't want me to leave. That's quite a change from Friday night when he was kicking me out right away, and even after he apologized I asked him if he still wanted me to move and he said "Yes."

Now--I need to bone up on the LB's. The Gods know I'm not perfect and I can use all the help I can get. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

JL--I've only been living with my bf for 5 years. We've been together for 14. I know that a lot of people think that I should just leave because we aren't legally married--my friends and family think so too--but as crazy as it sounds, I know that I'm doing the right thing by staying with him. My bf has NEVER cheated before, and we had a great relationship for a long time--why should we break up because of a mistake? I was too busy working at my "career" to keep paying attention to my bf's needs. (I'm sorry--I think that's part of what's wrong with this society as a whole--having things has become more important than the people in our lives.) We have a lot of things to work out, but we're worth it. And just because Rachel (OW) doesn't think that my bf is worth anything it doesn't mean that I agree with her. I think he's worth the world. He's a good man who's made some mistakes. I'm a good woman who's made some mistakes. That's why I came here--to see what I can learn and implement to make our relationship stronger than it was before. It's working, you know--just his comments about not wanting me to leave are proof of that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Believe it or not--I KNOW that any time I want I can leave. I have family and friends who would take me in a heartbeat. I have a boss who will give me hours so that I can support myself. I just know that it is not the right move for me to make. I'm not looking at my relationship with him through rose-colored glasses--I'm a realist and right now it pretty much sucks! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> But, I also know that with some hard work it will improve and become even better than it was before.

Thank you for your words--yes--they did sound kind of harsh and I was kind of upset at first. But I also know that you meant them in a kind way to help me and I do appreciate that. I don't just work on my relationship with my bf--I work on my relationship with me. I just didn't talk about most of that in my post because this site--to me--is a relationship builder site and it's why I came here--for advice on how I can help to make my relationship stronger. Believe me--I'm not staying because I'm "stuck" here--because I'm not. (Especially since I know I can have an apartment very reasonably right over my mother.) I'm choosing to be here because I honestly feel that it's the right thing for me right now. Thank you for helping.:)

I can see JL's point, but since you want to keep the guy, I think you need to do a little work on yourself. You need to get healthy enough where you could be fine without him.

Plan A is the starting point, and that includes making changes in yourself, no love busters or disrespectful judgments. You need to keep it up for around 3 months. Then there is Plan B.

I think a long term relationship is similar to a marriage, so I would not advise giving up.

I am concerned that you would spend your time caring for a woman that hates you. Please give more details about that.

I'm not just laying around in my house feeling sorry for myself because the big, bad bf cheated on me. I'm not stupid by any means and I know what I have to do for MYSELF to be healthy and happy again. He's not even the most important thing that I have to work on. My self esteem is. My self confidence is. I have been doing work on myself--I haven't gone into detail on it here because I didn't think this was where I should be talking about all of that. I have a job--I've had one all along--I just don't choose to work a lot of hours right now because of the fact that I am working on me. I go to the gym 4-5 times a week and I've lost 112 lbs. so far. As far as being fine without him--I KNOW that I would be fine without him--that's not even an issue for me. We broke up 10 years ago and I was fine. I've supported myself for most of my life--an apartment, a car, insurance, paid bills--I know that I can do all of that. I might not have the cold hard cash in my hand to go lay down a deposit on an apartment, but I know that I'll have it when I get paid. The issue for me here is that I do love him and I believe that we deserve the opportunity to make our relationship healthy again. And I do believe that he still loves me or I wouldn't even be here fighting for our relationship. If it works--then hey, I'm the winner. And if it doesn't then at least I know that I gave it 110%. I believe that we deserve that chance.

As far as OW being right about him not being good enough for her--she wasn't only talking about finding out that he cheated on someone with her. She was talking about the fact that their personalities are different. She likes to go out partying and doing things all the time. He does too, but he also likes just staying home sometimes and watching tv, listening to music and relaxing. She told me that she had to "drag him to go out with her" and that's when she said that she doesn't want to change him but she deserves better than that.

His mother had Alzheimer's Disease. Her doctors said that she needed 24 hour care and we couldn't afford to put her in a nursing home without losing the house and everything. We talked it over and he made a higher wage than I did at the time so we decided that it made more sense for me to leave my job. His mother wasn't outwardly rude to me or anything--she just hated me because I was overweight. That's the kind of woman that she was--she used to call his friends--"The Jew", "The Polak", "Horse"--for example. I don't regret leaving my job and taking care of her--not anymore at least. At first I did but I got over that when I realized that she really needed my help and she had no one else. Literally. She was the youngest one in her family and the last one alive. It's kind of funny about her--I think the Alzheimer's took away that "mask" that a lot of people wear, you know? She used to tell her son that she hated him and she blamed him for her bad marriage. Before my bf was born his parents used to go out and do things together--go on vacations, go on cruises, spend time with friends--they had my bf late because she just couldn't get pregnant <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. She finally ended up getting pregnant when she was 41 and giving birth to him when she was 42. This was back in 1968 and he was their only child. Anyway, you all know how hard it is with a new baby and how sometimes it's hard for the parents and she used to tell my bf that it was his fault the marriage had problems. The Alzheimer's took away that mask that she wore to protect herself from the hurt and rejection she used to feel--she was sweet, silly, had a sense of humor--this was all towards the middle to end of the disease and before she died. So that's why I took care of her--she really had no one else. It was hard work but it was worth it.

Well, I have to go. It's almost time for me to go to the gym so I have to get ready. Have a nice day everyone. Thanks for your input--I might not like what's being said and feel like I have to explain myself about everything--but I do appreciate it and I do think about what you say. I really do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />