When I discovered my wife's affair, I didn't find MB for around 6 weeks. Fot me, I understood right away that the only way to end her affair was by getting people she cared about to influence her decision.

I may be wrong, but it seems to me sometimes that the BS is more concerned about their reputation than saving their marriage. It is humiliating to have to admit to people that your wife would rather be screwing someone else than being married to you. So BS's do this namby pamby 1/2 assed exposure, or want to waste their time threatening someone who has already lost their mind with exposure thereby enabling them to spin it. Then you have all the foghorns sounding who want to convince everyone they are being uncaring.

So let me ask you this question. My wife was ****** bent on destroying our marriage and our life together, to say nothing of the pain and misery she would have inflicted on our children. How does my pain or my childrens pain in ANY way whatsoever compare with the embarassment and shame she felt when her affair was exposed? Did it make our recovery any more difficult? NO. What it did was make our recovery possible.

What the foghorns here have so much trouble with here is accepting that it is impossible to repair a marriage still in the grips of an affair. I, personally think, ANY tactic is permissible to that end. The alternative is unthinkable - a broken home and the lives of innocent children irreparibly harmed. And frankly, no pain my FWW felt compares even 1 iota to that possibility.

So when she walked out to commence her fantasy life with OM I rang EVERYONE who I believed could influence her actions - pastors, church, friends, family. Not in the hope of vengence but to influence her. To give her reason to pause. The fog was thick and the sense of entitlement was great. She was actually stunned that I did it. She thought I would not do it that I was more concerned about my reputation. She was sure I didn't care about her or wouldn't care that she left. She was as foggy as any WS I have ever seen here.

She has never once said to me I wish you didn't expose. Not once. Her affair was effectively over 4 days after d-day and exposure. 4 days and she abandoned her soul mate and her sin. Gee is Exposure effective? It's essential from where I sit. I can't even believe there is a discussion about this.

Funny thing now is there are people who know something "happened" with us and my wife is desperate that they know it was her not me that had an affair. She is concerned about my reputation. For me, I'm happy for people to think whatever they like and will do anything now to defend her reputation. She is out of the fog. We have a happy, passionate wonderful marriage.

To everyone here, I say, this is a Marriage Builders Site. Dr Harley talks about a narrow road to recovery. It just stuns me that people are stupid enough to think they are smarter than Dr Harley who has saved 1000's of marriages. There are newbies here who are so shattered and desperate an instead of getting good MB advice they are flooded with everyone's theories about how to end an affair. God forbid we should ever offend a WS by waking them up to the consequences of their actions.

I really, really don't get it. And unfortunately, the Foggy Dozen band together all the time propping each others misguided opinions up effectively disuading poor newly BS's from the correct advice they require to save their marriages.

You know what? I'm about sick of myself and other FWS being called names, etc.when we are the ones actually trying to make changes. What you may not realize is that your approaches are completely pushing away any WS who may be considering change. The idea that most of you are here for support is ludicrous

On the contrary. We are pushing away WS's who DON'T want to change.

what a sanctimonious load of ***** that is! I am trying to change...it's just the all-or-nothing mentality that reeks of a cult

Hmm I thought you were leaving?

You know what?? I AM a FWW and I am not offended by anything that Kahuna has to say...because he's right!! I don't believe anyone here is name-calling. They are laying it out on the line. We are people who have months and years behind us and we can speak from experience. I was REALLY close to destroying my family. I thank GOD that Fluke exposed to everyone - again - not to humiliate me but to SAVE me. He loved me SO much that he wanted to see me make something of myself. Did that guarantee that we would stay together? Not at that time but he knew I had worth and he wanted to do what he could to help me. That's all anyone here with experience wants to do. We CANNOT tell BS to sit back and let the chips fall where they may. Their WS will come to their senses with threats. BS!! (Not betrayed spouse). I was one of those people who was given the benefit of the doubt and guess what? I hurt my H more than you will EVER know.

For any FWS or WS to think for one minute that they deserve an easy way out is living in a dream world and FOG. Get over yourselves and own your actions.

What?? And not give all of the BS a battering ram so that I'm too weary to continue recovery???? My H has done some reading here and thinks I'm halfway crazy to continue posting

sfjaj...

Are you trying to imply that either Flukette or BigKahuna called *you*, specifically, *you* a name??? I have said that you are foggy...that is NOT a name, it IS a state of existence...You continually cry out that you are being called names...if you are going to point a finger, I ask that you do so specifically and allow the person a chance to respond...

I would be interested to hear how your husband is doing by the way...you are expending a lot of energy towards defending the *feelings* of WSes here...WHAT are you doing regarding your husband's, the BSes, feelings? In one breath you say that you see how wonderful that your H is to take you back after your A...but your arguments here are hardly in line with that statement...HE IS YOUR VICTIM...How can you continue to disrespect him by defending ANY of your behaviors??? Behaviors that CUT HIM TO THE CORE??? HOW is THAT DEFENSIBLE...PLEASE EXPLAIN...

sfjaj, could you please answer this question, I would seriously like to hear what you have to say...When is it ever right to have an affair?


Mrs. Wondering

sfjaj...I speak from experience and I see myself in you...you are still in the fog and until you come out of it, you will not understand what we are posting to you. Again, I am a FWS (which you don't seem to understand from your other post out there to cookie) and, no offense, but since you only have one month under your belt, you may want to slow down a bit. Take it from some of us who have been down the road you are.

It's VERY hard and you may think you have quicker or better answers but, again, I've been where you are. It doesn't work.

sfjaj,

You said
Interesting choice of words. I often wonder how someone in an A who has completely rationalized why it is a good thing, and why it is fine to leave the BS would have ANY problem with the world KNOWING of their choices. After all they are RIGHT aren't they? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Sfjaj, you are missing more than a few points and frankly I am not sure why. Perhaps you are very sensitive about your choices. Perhaps you feel that everyone has done something wrong in their lives, thus we should reserve our comments, or at least make sure the WS is NOT offended.

But, the reality is SFJaj, that the choice to have an A is offensive to all concerned and it should be dealt with as quickly and effectively as possible. You may hate your H, and you may hate and not respect the BS's here AND the FWS's here, but what they know that you do not, is that this approach works more ofen than just about any approach.

Does it work 100% of the time? Not even close, but it does work, and it works for two simple reasons, most affairs end. If they do end and the BS has not gone completely ballistic upon finding out how completely they have been lied to and betrayed there really is a chance for the marriage to make it even in the worst of circumstances and frankly yours is pretty bad. Why does it work? Because the A ended, therefore just about anything that will shake the WS out of the "fog" of rationalization is fair game.

You have many things to overcome in your marriage and I hope that you and your H are making progress, but you are not on the winning side of this arguement.

You may still think the best outcome was for your H to find out, and just leave the marriage, giving you and OM a free run at "a happily everafter life". But, the statistics are very plain, your life and even the potential for marriage have/had very little chance of success.

If you don't think your H leaving quietly with no objections to what you had done, and no effort to save the marriage, did you expect him or anyone to tiptoe around and continue to eat crow while you causually and gently dealt with OM's feelings? I don't see where you nor any other WS were too concerned about hurting your spouse and ending the marriage.

Do you see the inconsistency of what you seem to be implying? Do you realize that no one is mad at you? Do you realize that virtually everyone here is hoping that you and your marriage become a success story?

Hard situations call for strong responses. Interestingly, there is a group that posts here that thinks the MB was is too namby pamby and only "tough love" works. Isn't that odd?

Please stop and realize this discussion is not about you, but rather the most effective way to end the A, which as Dr. Harley points out is to expose it to the light of day, and do it soon.

Must go, but I do hope all is going well for you.

God Bless,

JL

For the record...I, Mrs. Wondering, the one who continues to call you foggy am a FORMER WAYWARD SPOUSE...So sweetie...CAN the melodrama about you the poor WS being picked on by the Big Bad Betrayeds-that's a CROCK...You can't sh.t a shi..er...I can see right through you...NOT because I am superior...but because in many ways I WAS you!!! Time to Submit or Get off the Pot sfjaj!

Mrs. Wondering

I'm not melodramatic...I'll say it very plainly...I believe most of you get great enjoyment out of being condescending to those of us new on the journey...being a "newbie" doesn't mean I'm ignorant and, incidentally, I saw that you are a FWS. Just because I don't believe there is ONE almighty pathway to recovery doesn't mean I'm not in recovery...I'm not the one hard of hearing here

Most of you prefer the FWS who tuck tail and run and don't dare to challenge the cult-like atmosphere that pervades these posts. I'm sorry...there is NOT ONLY ONE WAY to accomplish recovery

if you are staying you better delete your goodbye cruel world post to smartcookie

If I may ask...why would you post on MB if you don't think it works?? Not trying to be a smart-alek....

and listen - you might learn something from those who actually have recovered their marriages and KNOW what does and doesn't work from experience. It's illuminating.

Flukette, I think much of it does...it's just that I am questioning some of the exposure principles...I think we should have the right to question; it's healthy

sfjaj...

I SAID ALMOST THIS EXACT SAME THING HERE...last spring/summer...I would be glad to pull that post for you if you'd like...I don't say the things I say to you for fun...I say them because I KNOW...as I've told you repeatedly...

Mrs. Wondering

There is something vitally wrong when no one can disagree

I agree that asking questions is healthy but also understand that Fluke & I have been in this process for months. I know that if I lived believing what I did, I would be living in a van down by the river. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The ONLY reason I came around was because of the exposure. I couldn't hide it anymore. My family, friends and pastor knew. I was accountable and supported. All those people love(d) us and wanted us to succeed. If I hadn't been brought to the light, I would have continued my ways. Period.

Your responses and statements do NOT surprise me because I asked the same questions when I only had a month behind me. I was full of resentment, bitterness, anger and wanted the finger pointed at my BH. "It's not ALL my fault!" Guess what, it WASN'T all my fault but my choice of actions were inexcusable and I should have been thrown to the curb for doing what I did. It was because of my intervention that I was able to turn my life around...and my faith in God. Not because of some method I concocted in my head.

Until you get farther down this road, you won't understand at this point.