[/quote]By Disbelief
Sorry you're in the same awful boat I'm in. I couldn't agree with you more that the laws seem terribly unfair for fathers. In my case, OW told H she was on the pill (but wasn't), and got herself pregnant on purpose. Now she's pissed that he doesn't want anything to do with her and their son. He told her when she first knew she was pregnant that he didn't want her to have the baby and didn't plan on having a life with them. She made the choice (as is her right) to have and keep the baby. I understand that the laws are what they are in an effort to protect the child financially, but I think men should be given some kind of 'opt out' period where they can say they want no contact (and legally terminated all rights) and not be held financially responsible. Anyway, just wanted to say I totally understand how you feel. May I ask how your H feels about having no contact with OC? My H really wrestles with that decision and feels guilty for not seeing him. I wish he believed that he really has no moral obiligation to this child given the circumstances. I too asked how God could let this all happen. I've always been a little unsure of my religious beliefs but have always believed in karma and the idea that what goes around comes around. I know this is very immature, but I get a great deal of satisfaction in knowing that OC has a developmental disability. Now don't get me wrong - I do feel terribly for the child as his already difficult life will be even more so now, and he did nothing to deserve any of this. Finding that out kind of gave me a sense of satisfaction that OW's getting her due now. She wanted to steal my life, steal the joy of having my H's first child, now she can enjoy the ****** of being a single parent of a child with problems and all the doctor/therapy visits it entails.[/quote]

I read your post and had to reply to it, cause I feel the same way as you do in alot of what you said.

I also believe that men have no right, that they should have the choice to opt out, actually we had joined some national groups in that fight and one of them is with the ones that are helping Matt in his case. I know there is some dad's that are dead beat dads, but many men are getting just screwed over and it is not fair. No I didnt just join because we are trying to get out CS, yes we did join after all this started, but only because I lived in fairy tale land and didnt relize that it was going on. I dont believe that if a man and wife is married and have children, or even lived together many years, and couple of years later the man can walk out and give up his right but I do believe that in certain situtation men should have the choice. Women have all the choices, first she has many more choices of birth control over men, there are 10 kinds she can choose from, were men have 3 counting no sex,Woman get a POST conception choice. A chance to say whoops. Men should too. women can choose to have a aboration, the father has no right in if she can have it or not. Women can give up the baby for adopotion, no question asked. Or a women can decide to keep the baby and get all the finance that she needs. It is not fair!!!! And I get so tired of hearing you should of kept it zipped, well.... she could of kept her knees together!!!

"Fathers must support their children, regardless of the circumstances of the births."

That is unless the mother makes the "choice" to raise "her" child alone, unencumbered with the presence of the biological father.

That is unless the mother makes the "choice" to avoid the responsibilities of parenthood by abandoning her newborn at a "Safe-Haven" location.

That is unless the mother makes the "choice" to relinquish her child to an adoptive parent.

State legislators and Domestic Court Judges like to say that a child has a "right" to support. Did you notice that the only time the so-called "right" to support is recognized, is when the birth-mother wants financial assistance with the "choice" that she unilaterally made?


The guidelines that are a joke, for example in my case, how is it fair to take 50% of the fathers income, for the OC who will also have mothers full income (she makes more then us even), our state does not join both parents income only the fathers. and then if she got married, her husband income. Where our COM... 3 of them... have to live off the rest of the money after they taken out 50% and it is only income coming into the household. It is a never ending cycle, cannot afford it.... they say get another job.... but if you get another job??? Your right back in court having your CS raised cause your income went up!!! So what do you gain? NOTHING! Then they wonder why they are seeing a high increase in men commiting sucide!

They say it is all best interest of the child... bull!! For one thing be fair to all of them! That a child should be finacial supported by both parents. Then fine mothers that refuse to reveal the fathers, dont list one on BC, she be fined or jailed for not giving her child finacial support of both parents, single parent adoption should be banned, sperm banks should not be allowed to do impregant a single woman, cause where is the two parent support that is the law!!

I have wrestled with alot of emotions about the NC, my H reassures that he does not want it and wont change his mind in the future. Changing his mind dont really bother me just that I am scared that some how he will blame me for the NC after years have gone by. Even tho I really hid my feelings about it and told him that I would behind him in whatever he chooses and it had to be his decision, and to base it on what he wants and not what he thinks I want. But if you look at it, it is no different then for the same excuses that women give up their child for adoption, not ready to be a parent, do not want to have the child, cannot finacially afford it etc..... to me it is the same as the NC it is just that men dont have a choice and get labeled dead beats.

Now for my personal opionions on the NC. I am glad!!! I am thrilled!!!! And I use to stop and gasp!! I am not a cold person, actually I do have a very kind heart, when another hurts I feel their pain, I will give the shirt off my back to another, but I also wont be walked over and taken for granted and know how to stand up for my loved ones or anybody for that fact that is getting the bad end of a deal. And at times I just couldnt believe that I was thrilled and I would say that poor child it did not ask for this. But now, after seeing how OC has all the rights, how my children are suffering because of it, well my worries are no longer for the OC they are for my children, she didnt think of my children when she slept with my H so I am not going to worry about hers. What goes around comes around.

I do not feel sorry for the OW bit, for the years now she has to face in raising the OC alone. If she wanted a father in her child life she should of chosen someone was that available. Every week lately my H picture been in the paper cause my sons traveling basketball team that he coaches have been winning alot of tournments and it shows the team and coach, my H with them and their trophey. I hope she looks at that and sees what a great father he is, gives his whole time to his family and to know that her child will never have that!!

There is not one symphatic bone in my body for the OW, actually I do hope she have many disapoint in life ( not the OC but just the OW), and I do hope one day that she does fall madly in love and her H does this to her. And how is ever going to be able to look her child in the eyes and hold her head up proudly to this child?

All my guilt about OW is basically gone now, I tried to picture myself into her shoes, how I would feel and what I would think. It was hard cause I know without a doubt I would of never slept with a married man, I have had my offers when I was single, and some yes I sure did wish they was not married but I never would. But for the arguemnet what would I do if I did... because of my morals I would of given the child up for adoption to be raised in a 2 parent family or I would of thought of his children along with mine and decided to be fair to them both and raise the child on my own. With no emotional or finacal support.

I hear you guys! I've tried to honestly put myself in OW's shoes as well. I can understand how you can let yourself be mislead, but I cannot understand how you can do this to a family. I can honestly say I would NEVER be in that position. Maybe I'm selfish too...but I would not want to raise a child in such chaos (chaos I know I created for the child for CHOOSING to bring it into this world in such a mess), and I would not let my CHOICES destroy another family...enough damage has been done.

Maybe someday it will all be fair, but I think it will be a LONG time from now.

Take care girls.

It is amazing how living through an A/OW/OC drama, our views and opinions of things and people change.

Before all of this I would have said that I supported anything that was in favor of a woman and her child(ren)-- including Dads being forced to pay CS, etc. But that was before I thought about these OW/MM cases and knew first hand what an unfair advantage women have (ie, get themselves pregnant, chose to have child, are entitled to $$$ no matter what the circumstances)

Prior to this whole OC sitch in my life, I would have told you that I did not believe in abortion except in the case of rape. But after the whole OW/OC sitch, my views have changed. I mean is it really better that this little boy is being raised by an immature, irresponsible, woman and being bounced from man to man with her? He has no relationship with his father (my H) because of his mother and her drama. He has half siblings he will never know. My kids have to grow up to learn about his exsistence one day . . . Was it really best for HIM to be born in to this nightmare???

Like the rest of you have said I have no sympathetic bones in my body for OW -- I hope even with the $$$$ she is basically stealing from us every month that she still struggles daily to get by.

Once shortly after this nightmare began, someon in a bible study group I was in said I should be praying for OW and OC salvation that God could use this to bring them closer to Him. I smiled politely but was thinking in my head -- even heaven isn't big enough for me and the OW. If I get there and she's there too one of us is leaving - Being in heaven for eternity with her would be ****** anyway!!

It has been awhile since I have spent anytime letting myself tap into those hateful feelings I have for her - so I will stop myself here. I think the best possible revenge is to live my life with my H and kids and be happy without giving her a thought and knowing that she knows H doesn't give her a thought either!!

Ladies...I agree totally. I couldn't have said it best.

What is the name of the organization that deals with Men's rights?

Hi, can you share the national rights group for men?

I'm curious. I think all of us she be involved.

This has got to stop. My husband is paying $1,000.
Now WE struggle.

The OW has property, excellent credit, etc. We are also taking care of her as she is on welfare.

I too feel no pity for her. I never did anything to this women, yet she chose to harass ME, write me, call ME.
I didn't get her pregnant. Yet she has anomosity towards me.

I have never retaliated against this "woman." Though many times I have wanted to write her a letter.

It saddens me that more and more single women are having affairs with married men and getting pregnant on PURPOSE.
We have no contact. The OW basically started stalking me.
She considers herself a victim. At the age of 39 at the time, now she's 42, she should have known better.

I can feel no compassion for someone who felt none for me.
She is also very arrogant. Actually, after thinking about it, I realized how much I threatened her. She really did want to be me...otherwise, she wouldn't have such hatred for me.

That's why she sent letters to my home, called me, sat outside my job trying to get a good look at me.

I am trying to move on, but I have lots of resentment still inside. I wasn't the one that screwed her, yet I'm the one that she is upset with.

Even in her letters she's a little off, in one letter she's mad at him for not wanting contact and she's cursing him out, the next letter she is asking why doesn't he want to be a part of his child's life. Maybe because she's a little cuckoo...

I feel sorry for the child BUT......I'm so tired of women playing both ends. At one end, Women are saying they are so strong...then when they become pregnant, they are these innocent litte victims that were screwed by these big bad mm.

I just sit on my hands and wait until she reaps what she sows. I'm also finding out that a lot of divorced women (that's what she was) are dating ah excuse me screwing married men, these women should know better.

I know this is just the way the world is now. I will just continue to pray to God and GIVE it to God.


I do know that if people don't stand up and fight this will
continue. Laws only change if people stand up and FIGHT for the laws to be changed.

I still fight the impluse not to write her a letter and tell her what I think of her and to really lay the guilt trip on her, if places where changed and I got such a letter the guilt would eat me up, but dont know if it would make her feel quilty or gloat. I did once when I first found out drove to her place, her and her very pregnant roommate (get this I found out that she did not know who the father was of her child, makes ya wonder) were sitting out front of the house, I surprised myself how calm I was when I walked up and said I want to talk to you about sleeping with my H, in a flash your no moral roomate grabbed her arm and drug her into the house. So I turned around and went home. Other then that it has been court only, and my H does everything short of throwing me over his shoulder to get me out of the courthouse fast before I do say something.
Her daddy is always there with her and always looking back at us with this smug expression and like we are the horriable people in this, makes ya wonder what he says to his friends, oh yea my darling girl went and slept with a married man and the dirt wont leave his wife to take care of his baby.


It is shame. I am not a perfect person, I have flaws, and I am not a very religuos person, but I do have beliefs and I do feel very strongly about treating others like you wanted to be treated. That is why I have so much trouble swallowing what would even tempt a women to even let a kiss even begin.

What really gets my goat is the way they get away scott free with it. Marriage is not just in the eyes of the church and god, it is a law, the courts recongnize it as a law, you want to get married you have to fallow the laws to apply for a license and you have to get a license to be married, you dont want to be married no more you have to have the courts to end the marriage. So why isnt there more laws to protect our marriage? Alot of states have abolished aliantion of affection because now you can file for a no fault divorce, so now you cant sue the OW. so she gets off free with no blame. I found this paper wrote by a harvard law student and I think the courts should really consider this guys essay it made alot of sense.

When a man and women signs a marriage license they are basically signing a contract, when a man strays that is a breach of the contract, and OW should be held accountable for her part of the breach being broken cause she could of said no.


There is tons of it in me, but you know what? It drove me crazy knowing I felt this way, I am not this type of person to hold such awful thoughts for another living being. About a month ago I searched deep down and decided that it ok, treat others like how you wanted to be treated, well she didnt consider me didnt think how I would feel, so I will treat her the same, dont have to worry about tables being turned and how I would feel cause I would never put myself in that situtation.

And I am only human, you can only forgive so much, if there is a god, they say god will forgive you for another if asked, even of murder. So think he will forgive me for not being able to forgive her for breaking something so sacried in his eyes.

OC yes there will always be tender spot in my heart and feel sorry for her, but my first priority is my children. And I do hope that in the future I do see OC standing up and fighting to changes things to make it right, cause isnt that how things change, is that we learn from the mistakes of our parents. And I hope one things is giving men more rights. I use to be happy that we had boys cause then I wouldnt have to worry about one of them getting pregnant, but now after what I have learned, I am more scared for my boys! they have no rights and it is sad to see how much power I really do have over my H.

After realizing it is ok for me to feel the way I do has been such a weight off my shoulder. I really dont feel no quilt no more. I didnt make the bed that she now has to lie in,

Your right they wont, and you will be surprised how many people feel the same way, they are turning more and more to men having some more rights. I ran across this one post about how people felt about Matt's case, I was so prepared from it to slam everything about it, cause that is what I am so use to seeing.

My heart goes out to the men that post and saying they are paying so much CS and cant afford to live right and wifes wont let them see child etc.... and he will get alot of replies telling him to hush up and pay up.

So I was ready for that, and was tickled pink to see 13 pages of replies with alot of them agreeing that it is unfair. The replies came from all sorts, men, women who have married a man that had a prevouis marraige, single mothers, single people, and women that are happily married and not living this nightmare. Now if those would just band up and try to get it going. So many women have voiced out and that will help more so, cause if it was just men they would be just told they getting out CS

I got a list of things I need to do to try and change the laws. I havnt talked about it alot cause dont want to jinx myself plus talking about it gets my hopes up and I have a long fight ahead of me.

One of my biggest issues that I was dealing with was getting walked all over by OW, and now I am mad a tired of it, and I am ready to fight, I may not win but at least I know I tried. I just dont know what fight to go after that I have a chance to win.

Child support joke of a guideline, that one would benefit both males and females, but it will be the hardest to win in my opionion. Did you know that the state gets paid so much for CS they collect within a year. My state got million dollars for last year. (they post the meetings for our CSO on the web lol) that money is used to run the CSO in our state.
Fathers right for opt out.
Laws to protect marriages and protecting my rights.

I mentioned in the past that one of my state legislature called me back and wanted to meet. I do have him on my side. NCMR (national center for mens rights) have contacted him also and giving him as much facts that they can to help when I go before the state legislature meeting when they met next time. not for another year :-(
I am working on getting another one to stand up and fight with me.
When Matt's case first came public a local reporter ran a article and you could tell by the tune that he was in favor, I contacted him and got him willing to print our story and be in our favor.
I posted a local ad in our online newspaper and set up a email account asking for people to tell me how they are getting screwed by the courts.
We got a new attorney in town that is willing to take us pro bono and does believe in our case but dosnt have much experience but NCMR is helping him on that.


This is the web site to National Center for Men's Right
They stand up for help in all kinds of situtation of mens right, dont want to be father, father wanting more rights with his child etc.....

http://www.nationalcenterformen.org/page2.shtml

this one is kind of interesting.... the site is not but if you look to the left you will see join mail server, I joined the first one. instead of a forum you get everything in the email. Sometime you dont get much other times you will get slammed with 15 emails in a hour. Instead of posting you write a letter and send it to the server address and within minutes it gets forward to every one on the list. You will get advice from others that been in there.... that is where I got hope for us to TPR cause some of them been there. They debate and they write tons of letters and not been modest in them, like one attorney general made a bad comment about men and CS and boy he got slammed with letters from this group, they went after a tv host the other day too. Here you will find real lawyers too that give advice. They are really getting the word out on mens right

http://www.nas.com/c4m/

I found this thread to be quite interesting because I see both sides of the coin. My first ex-husband owes me child support and good luck in getting the courts to nail his butt. My second ex-husband, "Mr. T" tried to do the right thing and file for dna testing, trying to set up a payment plan and such and gave sole care and custody of OC to OW and we got nailed and screwed without lube (to be blunt) if it weren't for the OW agreeing to a lesser amount, it could have been worse, but there were times my kids went hungry because we had to pay her for OC's care. With that being said, I'm in school now, working on my bachelor's degree in paralegal studies. I plan on specializing in family law. I'm especially interested in the area of father's rights.

Once I graduate college, I plan to work a bit as a paralegal, then go to law school. I will do my best to work towards changing laws and aggressively protecting the rights of fathers, while aggressively going after deadbeat dads.

One of my biggest problems with dealing with most of this is that our court system was supposed to be designed for the Judge to hear the facts of the matter of the case and decide on that particular case with some precedents. In our case, the Judge didn't care about our marriage etc. I'm working to change what I can.

You are right, we all need to find a way to be active and aggressive in protecting our rights. I've always said that I want OC to get her financial support, but not at the expense of raping the Married man's family.

Justice will be served one day and I will be at the front of the battle lines shouting "CHARGE".

how do you get your state legislature on your side. is there a way you can get a lawyer to help you pro bono. i don't mind him paying child support but i do mind how much we are paying. i had to get a job to help my family financially and we are still barely making it. i would like to put my son in sports and swim class and take them to the zoo or even chucky cheeses. i don't want my h getting a raise or becoming a boss b/c they will just raise his cs and my family won't benefit from it. ow just stays on assistance and doesn't even get a job. i think she had one but quite. i try to help my family and she just relies on other people and cs to help her. i looked at the statutes for the state of colorado (thats were we live) i went to something called married womans rigths. there was something that was titled "other legal benefits and protections" it says you can sue a third party for offenses that interfere w/the success of your marriage, such as alienation of affection. not sure if you can really do it. i just wish there was something more i could do in my situation instead of doing nothing and wishing i could do something.

Thank you for the website addresses.

I'd like to learn more about how to find a lawyer that leans more on the side of the married couple in these OW/OC situations.

We really don't have the kind of money to interview lawyer after lawyer just to find out they follow the status quo when it comes to CS modification hearings. My H still needs to be able to support his household & COM and we need a lawyer that can argue this in a way that results in CS payments being made more fair.

Should we be looking more for a Father's Rights Attorney moreso than a CS Attorney?

Please send more organization names, links etc. that helps find these types of experienced lawyers. We have about another yr. before OW is up for modification and we need to make sure all our bases are covered. But first, we need a kick as* lawyer.

Thanks guys.

First sorry took me so long to get back to ya, kind of got carried away in the kitchen and instead of the cutting the food I got my fingers. Stitches made it little hard to type lol.

Light of day, yes I would try to find a lawyer that is more for men/father right. Instead of paying for all the interviews which can be a waste of money. Word of mouth is the best way, but here I live in small town, 5 lawyers total and all in favor of the mother. I got a listing of all of attorneys listed in our state and wrote so many letters stating our story and what I expected from my attorney, and that if they thought they could help please contact me. What state you live in?

hwater
I looked it up and sadly Colorado is like our state it abolished sueing OW for alliation of affection. Only 6 states still allow it. But I am digging tring to find some civil law or torte that I can get her on or to be able to as a representive of my COM. I just cant get over that someone can go out and lie about me and because of this lie I lose money/creditablity/respect but she can get off scott free and take half of our income from lifting her skirt?

I did get this site sent to me it is a petition to reform CS from what I understand is that are wanting ten thousand signatures and only have one thousand right now. They are trying to change the laws about CS so that it will be fair to both child and parent.

http://www.childsupportreform.org/common/national_registration.php

I will add more posts later,

What is really need is to put a bill before the politicians to pull some of the teeth from DHS & CS. They have all the power, judges basically just follow the law and it is the state legislature that makes the law.

The federal government needs to be pulled out of the equation entirely and states need to implement reasonable payment solutions instead of some ridiculous assumption that anyone could survive on as little as 35% of their of their gross monthly income. Legal allowances need to be made for new families of non-custodial parents, or for butting in a already made family like ours and in general the laws need to be modified to be fair to both the paying parent and the child. The children’s needs do come first but not to the expense of the non-custodial parents legal right of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If you have to give up most of your income to an unfair persecution these inalienable rights have been trampled on and have been done in the guise that it is for the
children.

The best plan of action would be to follow these steps and be prepared for a long battle.

1. Contact your local state legislature, the one in your hometown. To find out all the ones in your area you can call your state congressman and they will give you the list and how to contact them. Do not just write them or email them, call them and see them in person, put a face to the story. When you talk to them, dont make it all about revenge, and so on, make it clear that is best interest of ALL CHILDREN. Cause how is it fair to the child that the fathers has to live in some one room studio cause all of his money goes to CS and because he lives that way he cant get weekend visitation cause of the place he lives in? Me I pushing that but mainly why do my COM have to suffer and OC benefits.
Dont give up if one wont listen. Keep after them and keep in mind that they work for you, your votes put them there!

2: Start your own grass routes campaign, find others in your area that in the same boat as you and start a petition to get the laws changed. Not a quick fix by any means but none the less the best way to get things started.

3: Get your local media involved, this will get the more people involved that you couldn’t reach by just word of mouth. Also and more to the point it gets the attention of local politicians better than anything else you could do and it is FREE!!! The liberal government and the feminist have used the media to portray men as deadbeats and unfit for years; it is our turn. I know this doesn’t sound easy but it truly is as easy as a phone call to the local T.V. stations and newspaper and telling them of your plight. (Be relentless though; DO NOT TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER!!) Most stations have websites where you can get the email and direct lines to the anchors and reporters, use them. (A lot if necessary) Don’t just go in with the lame sob story of, “I am pissed because I have to pay CS for OC and OW gets to live like a queen.
do your homework, find out how many people in your area are paying child support, get an average income for the people paying the child support and average of what they pay per-month. Get details, do any of these people have new families, any new kids, and of course our situtation, how many of them are below poverty due to there child support. Then you can tell how it is directly affecting you; again don’t say it will prevent you from taking some elaborate vacation or some other things like that, just that how it effects you to live just with normal day to day bills. Make your voice heard but don’t sound like some vengeful jerk. :-) The secret to winning people (media) over is simple be concise, honest, and above all sincere. Don’t try to make out like all non-custodial parents are good people and want to pay their support, instead tell them that the majority of people would be more than willing to if it wasn’t set by an unfair calculation that doesn’t take into any effect of ones person finances or obligations, or the fact that it is putting the people in to sever financial distress.

4: Group Emails. Your local government, state government, and yes the federal government all have websites, and on those websites is ways including email addresses for the people you want to get your message across to. Post them on website that anyone in your state can find. If you want make a blog up so people who stumble across your site by accident can see what you’re trying to do and if they want can sign your petition, or donate their time to the cause

5: Don’t be afraid, whenever you do something like what I have outlined you will find people who want to be argumentative, it is human nature. DO NOT BACK DOWN to these people. Instead be very kind and even go so far as to say that you are sorry for wasting there time. You will find that the next person that comes by will be more susceptible to lesson to what you have to say if you do not seem combative in anyway but you have your information right there for people to see and know what you are talking about. After all we are trying to get our plight out to the masses, not piss off the minority and the ill-informed