I'm hoping we can avoid all of that. She called me last night for the first time. Said she wanted to re-establish friendship with me but had to get some things off her chest. She went on to complain about my job hunting and about how I portray myself online as the perfect husband and perfect father and "how could anyone in their right mind want to leave me." She didn't like that I had written on my blog that I was not willing to wait forever and was moving on. I believe this is what has gotten the greatest rise out of her. I don't know. She is confusing, but the conversation served to push me away and make me mad at her. I really see my feelings for her changing and I am upset at how she has treated me and her lack of acknowledgement of her mistakes in the marriage, especially with the infidelity.

I'm going to see the kids today and don't know if she'll be there or not. I don't really care either way. If she ever wants to reconcile with me I would need to see some sincere requests for forgivness and willingness on her part to re-establish trust.

I'm not too concerned about her nightlife. She is having a difficult time doing much of that because of the demands with the kids and our nanny needs a break from it all. Her parents have already stated that they don't want to be a baby sitting service for her so this is making her nightlife a challenge right now. I also don't doubt her protectiveness with our kids. She would never allow this other person near them. That I don't doubt.

We'll see how it goes this afternoon.

Papaof3,

Let me get this right. She said
Now remind me. She divorced YOU after having an affair on you will you were overseas right? You have no legal or moral reason to be part of her life,other than to treat your children as best you can right? What business is it of hers what you do or say about yourself or your past marriage?

She made the decision to divorce. She moved out and took the kids some states away. I think if I were you, I would simply and calmly remind her that you are not married to her by HER choice, and what you do know is of NO concern to her.

If she says "but what if I decide to get back with you." I think your response is that you are sure she lied to you about this as you have other things, and it was just her way of trying to make the divorce seem like not a divorce. But it is a divorce.

Think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Papaof3,

I think you are dealing with alot right now, not just the situation with your X either.

What you have experienced in the past few years is unfathomable to me. I live in Quebec which is about as far away from the war as a person could get....it`s not discussed, very few people here join the army ect.

I am an Amercian who came to live here as a child so do think about it. I avoid talking about it though...because it`s an extremely touchy subject here.

When I do think about it...it boggles my mind. I think that to be able to go to war a person would have to be tougher than most people are. You`d need to have an incredible ability to separate all the various areas of your life and be able to bounce back from the most extreme circumstances.

It sounds to me like you are starting to bounce back. The situation with your W has been beyond your control and has thrown you for a loop. You need to focus now on what is within your control and that is the wellbeing of yourself and your children. I think that perhaps because of your experiences as a soldier you might well suited for this. You have already been through some pretty bad stuff and you have survived.

Your best bet is to move on now. Do whatever you need to do to make yourself happy because you deserve that. Just take things slow and shop around. There are many women out there to choose from and if you take your time you are going to find just the right one. It`s a good idea to read up on all the MB material so you`ll be that much further ahead when you do meet the right one.

I think that when you get your own ducks in a row you will know EXACTLY how to handle it if your W ever comes crawling back. If you don`t know how to handle it then that`s your cue that you still have some work on yourself left to do.

I had a bit of regression yesterday. I was called in the morning by my ex. She asked if I would be willing to take the kids while she went and looked at some houses. She said we could all get together for lunch. I looked forward to it and was optimistic of her recent thawing towards me. Unfortunately, seeing her and the kids merely made me feel like she was approaching me as one would an old friend. Not even that. More like a friend that is a co-worker. I got no joking, hugs, anything from her. Basically all business.

She gave me the kids and I took them to my place so they could play there for a little while. I finally met up with her and was hoping for some sort of sign of anything from her, but once again it was all business in passing the kids from my car to hers. No warmth, hugs, anything.

She says she wants to re-establish a friendship and then take it from there. Baby steps is all she's comfortable with. Last night I logged into my blog website and went and looked at her page. I looked at some of her "friends" on her list and saw some comments she had left other guys on their page. She said things like, "I really enjoy talking to you and hope for some more."

Of course, on my end I'm thinking, why in the ****** is she giving attention to these guys who are nothing when the father of her 3 children is dying to give her attention? So I broke the 180 rules and IMed her. I asked her why, I pressured her to tell me if she was planning on seeing anyone from this site, etc. Basically, the stuff I'm not supposed to do. She's in her fog and I need to be patient, let her see the pitfalls of dating with 3 kids on her own and just quit contacting her. The less I make myself available, the more she'll feel my absence. Her parents think she's in a fog, my nanny, myself, my counselor. Reality hasn't struck her.

So what do I do? My friends all tell me to quit contacting, e-mailing, and calling. To make myself as unavailble as possible and that this is what will snap her out of it, if anything does at all.

She has already reacted to posts on my blog where I state I'm not going to wait for her and I'm going to move on. She says she doesn't like the idea of me dating. And shows that she cares about me by constantly visiting my blog, reading my posts, and sending me e-mails about job fairs. She even told me there was a nice 3 bedroom place I that would be perfect for me.

So what does anyone recommend? 180? I'm trying. I keep telling myself to follow the 180, don't let her flirting with other guys get to me and to move on with my life and do things for myself. I'm going swing dancing again, having a blast doing that, and have some friendly dates on the horizon. I'm working out again with my roomate and am generally doing my best to get back on my feet.

Those are my thoughts for now. Any others would be welcome.

Had a date today. Nice girl, not interested in anything more right now. I'll see her again as a friend. But it has allowed me to focus my attention elsewhere and distract me some from what I'm feeling. I do get the impression she likes me, so I don't want to play with her feelings too much.

I also had a good talk with the exww. She told me that she does miss things about our relationship but that I'm not the man she fell in love with. I tell her he's there if she'd just reach out. She says she has to see it and that actions speak louder than words. Plan A comes to mind, in addition to the 180. Yesterday was a bad day in the sense that I had an argument with her about money in front of the kids. I had the floodgates open and many LBs came out. It was not good for me to do it in front of the kids and definately counter-productive in my attempts to win back my wife.

I think I'm going to cash out a Mutual Fund so I know I have child support covered for the next few months and be able to take care of myself at the same time. I was hoping I wouldn't have to, but I think I may have no choice since it is so expensive to live here. It would also eliminate a source of arguments with her. We'll see, I'll discuss the child support situation with her and ask her to reduce the amount I give her so that I can pay for the kids healthcare. All of this sucks and I wish she would just come back and reconcile, but I know this won't happen until I move on and successfully execute plan A with the 180.

You are dating?????

Had another date today. It was nice to spend time with someone who really likes me. She has been very attentive. I don't want to hurt her, though.

I have been keeping things nice and pleasant with WW. She's warmed up a little and has talked about re-establishing our friendship and taking baby steps forward. We talked like friends last night. It was nice. She still gives me the cold shoulder in general, though.

Ok, so how do I get myself to stop wanting to call her, message her, contact her? I know I need to do it to give her space and see things for herself. I just have to do it now. I want to call her and talk to her all the time and all I'm doing is pushing her away! I need some guidance for inner dialogue. Something. Please help.

Papaof3,

You do this by getting your own life. YOu get the job sorted out, you date, you have fun, you take care of your children, you reconnect with family, in short YOU LIVE.

If you ex wants anything else from you other than to use you as her babysitter, let her make the moves. She is guilting you into hanging around for her convenience right now. And she is playing games with you as far as I can tell.

You my friend need a life. If you will develop one, you may find that your ex may find you attractive, but more importantly if by some chance you two get back together, YOU have a live to SHARE with her, not just follow her around and await her next orders.

She has acted completely as if she is entitled to behave as she wishes with NO regard to you. Time to end this entitlement be developing your own life. It will take time, and effort but you will be rewarded if you focus on the important things in your life, and she is NOT one of them right now.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

I appreciate that and agree with you.

Took a big step for me today. I have quit using IM and asked my friends to use another service. This will eliminate the tempation to IM her when she logs in.

I also made one final affectionate gesture to her for Mother's Day. I made her her favorite breakfast, wrote her cards from the kids, delivered it to her house, had her mom take it up to her so she could have breakfast in bed. I then left without seeing her.

Today she called to tell me that I have as good a chance as anyone to romance her. All I need to do is to act "normal" and quit LB. I want very much to do this and feel the 180 is what I need to do. Of course, everytime I talk to her I want to hug her and tell her I love her and ask her how her feelings for me could just disappear. It's tough, but I've made progress as far as this goes as well. My biggest mistake was that earlier this week I fought with her in front of the kids. That was a big mistake. My daughter is 4 and understands enough that I should know better. I have resolved to never do it again.

I also realize that I really can't argue with her at all about anything right now. It will all be my fault until she gets out of fog. I wanted to talk to her about the monthly child support payments and how I would like to pay less until I get a job. She wouldn't hear any of it. So I've decided not to talk to her about it anymore.

Any words of encouragement or support are appreciated. I also really listen to the advice given.

I would encourage you to get your head out, and quit talking to her or dealing with her other than what is required to be with your children. "You have as much chance of romancing her as anyone else"... indeed. You are the father of her children, and she did cheat on you right?

Papaof3, you need to go no contact and get through withdrawal. You have NO chance of having a successful marriage with this woman until you turn into a man that knows his goals in life, has a path to reach them, and is comfortable in his own skin. You are no where near that right now. Quit worrying about her, and step one get a job, or take a veterans job training program, something, but get your life moving.

If you sit dead in the water, pining away for her, you will lose your children to another man taking care of them because you can't/won't, you will have no chance of regaining you marriage, and if you managed it will be the marriage from H**L, because she will continue to run over you and make you dance her tune.

Son, if you don't have pride in yourself, why should she take any pride in you??? Ask yourself that repeatedly.

I know this is a harsh sounding post, but go back and read all of your posts, all they are filled with is failed attempts to stand up on your own two hind legs. YOu keep pining for her, hoping to TALK her into doing something she clearly does not do...love you, want you, or need you. Why? You have nothing to offer that she wants.

You won't leave her alone (which makes her mad AND let's her know that she can do and get away with ANYTHING), You LB (which shows you "don't get it"), you don't have a job, you don't have goals in your life, in short what is it she is supposed to respect in you???

I know from your posts there is plenty to respect but YOU are burying it in a feeble attempt to "talk" her back into your life. You don't have a life Papaof3. Get one, and she may decide you have alot to offer her. She might even decide you are someone she could respect. Of course a few other women might see this before she does, but that would be HER loss, not yours.

You need to focus on you, your kids, and your life. The woman is gone, she divorced you, she cheated on you, she took your kids. Face it, work on you.

I am as serious as a heart attack about this. Work on your life, your goals, your attributes. Leave the woman alone.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Harsh responses are ok. I still enjoy reading the answers and opinions of others. I've VERY aggressively looking for work right now. I expect to start working by end of month. I'm also trying not to contact her. I just started "trying" so I don't expect it to be noticed anytime soon.

I'm having a very low morning. I miss her very much and miss my family. I called and asked her if she'd like to have a coffee and she told me she hasn't had enough positive moments with me right now for something like that.

I have decided to get back on anti-depressants. I'm hoping it evens my moods out. This has been a very low morning. Free time is what is killing me.

Read Dobson's "Love Must Be Tough". I suspect it says some of the same 180 stuff as Divorce Busting. I am about to enter into Plan B/separation which likely will lead to D. So I am eating my own advice!

I saw my ex today after dropping the kids off. She went on some rants about me snooping on her simply because I happened to see a letter on the counter that was written to her which was offering an interview for a job. I happend to see it when I picked up my mail that is being delivered to her house.

I assured her I wasn't "checking" on anything. We then went outside and talked for a few minutes. She says there's limits to our "friendship" and talking about who we may be dating is not something she's willing to talk about or wants to hear about. She says she's not seeing anyone. She also said she doesn't feel threatened by the nurse I've been seeing because she doesn't see her as someone I would get serious with. This is true, but I don't understand why it doesn't bother her unless it's just bluster on her part.

She says that if we're meant to be no one will ever make us as happy as we were when we were together and things were good. If we're meant to be, we'll find our way back to each other. Of course I would like for this to happen, but I think this is a bit naive on her part. I could be very happy with someone else because I don't believe there is "one" person out there for any of us. I have the maturity to see and know that all of us are capable of loving again and moving on.

I came home and wrote her a long message telling her why I felt that thinking could be dangerous. I believe she could get involved with someone else only to realize several months later that she's made a big mistake. By then, it could be too late on my part to try and save anything.

I will always have a place for her in my heart. I just hope she wakes up sometime in the near future. I still plan on taking care of myself as much as possible by finding work and diving into it.

My thoughts are very dark right now. I have actually contemplated suicide. I cannot see myself ever accepting an existence where I am no longer a daily part of my children's lives. I know they need in me in their lives, but I feel overwhelmed by the loss of my wife and kids. I can never see myself accepting coming home to an empty house, without my children there, and their sounds and cries and laughter.

I thought about the goodbye letters I would write to my family and friends. I thought about how I could leave here and do it somewhere where I won't ruin the property value of my friend's house. I thougth about saying one final goodbye to my children. I don't like these thoughts. I know I need help and am going to reach out to friends.

What about your children coming home for the rest of their lives with no hope of ever seeing YOU again?

You cannot do that to your children.

Papa most if not all of us BS`s have felt just as you do at some point. I certainly did. I felt that way during my first D and also after d-day in my second M. It`s not your life that you really want to end, it`s the pain. You want to end the pain. I understand that. But if you chose to end the pain in that manner you will also end all of your future happiness. You will never have the golden moment of watching your children graduate from high school. You will never see your children married. You will never hold you first grand baby.

I came much closer to ending it all during my first D. I did not have children so I didn`t think my death would matter. When my second M ran into trouble while I did think about it it was never a viable option. I had my boys and I could not do that to them. That would be the worst possible legacy I could leave them and I could not do that to them, leave them with that kind of permanent deep psychological scar. Children of people who kill themselves have a much higher rate of suicide themselves. I was not going to let them pay for my mistakes.

You do need help. Please call a local suicide hotline, and perhaps your local VA hospital can help as well.

I had a friend who committed suicide a couple of years ago, and the aftermath I am certain is not what he imagined it was going to be. Everyone was furious with him. He had some very big longterm issues but he also had many people who tried to help him. He had many people who loved him and counted on him. But he chose to wallow in his own misery and then take the easy way out. That is why we were all so angry. His boys are not doing well now.

Life does not always go as we planned, but it can turn in ways that will eventually lead us into better situations. But you have to stick around for that to happen. You`re alive now and can reach out for help to lead you to the right direction.

Please post and let us known that you have contacted a professional who can help you through this.

Our divorce agreement called for the selling of my stocks to pay off our credit card debt. I sold the stocks and stupidly believed her when she told me that she would to give her the money and she would pay the cards when the bills came to her. She never did and I had the companies calling me just a month ago. I'm tempted to take her to court for contempt, but am in a bind because she can use the kids as a weapon.

We have no formal custody agreement. I foolishly gave her physical custody of the kids and don't have a laid out plan for visitation. She has been very generous up to this point, but the flaws in this are starting to show. She won't let me take my kids to visit my family in California. My family has never seen my twin boys and they haven't seen my daughter since she was one month old. She won't let me take my daughter to my father's wedding, either and offers no real justification.

I am greatly concerned about her behavior. There's nothing illegal going on, but I really believe I'm the better parent. We had a nanny for 3 of the last 4 years of our marriage because I was a pilot that was gone often and I wanted her to have help. The nanny became the primary caretaker and still is. It really bothers me that my ex leaves the kids with the nanny to go out clubbing and on dates. She'll leave the kids 2 of the 3 nights with the nanny or her parents so she can go out. I would rather they be with me. I'd be happy to have my children all the time and not have a social life.

When we were married I would come hom from work and tell the nanny to take a break and that I would watch the kids. I watched them most of the time when the nanny didn't. I would play with them, change them, and feed them myself. My ex would either go shopping or would be in bed "sick".

She admitted to me after we divorced that she had been sexually abused by a family member when she was 11. Her behavior is very indicative of this. She bailed on a marriage that was by all measures good. She put herself on the internet and goes out with many, many men. Looking at her site shows how insecure she is. She poses for her webcam and has put herself on "hot or not". She doesn't bring any of these men around her kids....yet. Says she won't unless she decides to get serious with someone. I don't think it will be easy for her to bring a an into this drama or that it will be easy to find one that is so willing to jump into a family with 3 kids all under 4.

I really worry about the kind of trash she'll bring into our children's lives and I want to get primary custody. I don't need a nanny to watch the kids, I have a 8AM - 4PM job, and I don't care about a social life. I really think reality will crash down hard on her when the nanny's visa expires in December. She'll then find herself as a single mom of 3, having to get them ready all by herself and stuck at home on weekends because the babysitting service is gone.

I think this is when she'll wake up to what she has thrown away, but I'm no longer sure I want her back. She cheated on me and really took advantage of my emotional state after returning from the war to get a very favorable divorce agreement.

I'm now awake to all that I surrendered and the fact that she was pretty much lying to me about "having hope" and "keep the faith" that we would be together again.

She want more money for child support, which I'm basically giving her more than she earns at work right now. I don't feel I should have to pay for a live in nanny, but am happy to pay for day care.

I'm consulting a lawyer because I want to get a formal visitation agreement, but really feel I should fight for primary custody. Her lifestyle choices right now tell me that she doesn't put the kids first and I worry about the type of men she'll bring into the kids lives.

Any thoughts out there on getting custody for fathers? I have read books on the subject and am keeping a log of every time she leaves the kids with someone else to go clubbing or on date. I'm also building a portfolio of my personality, awards, and pictures of myself with my kids.

I just want to hear from any dads that have custody or from anyone that has gone back to try and get custody later.

My H has full custody of his kids from a previous M. A little different case, though, because the bio mother pretty much just walked away from them. We've had lots of success in court defending against her trying to get them back since then, though.

It really depends on your state, but I think it's much more likely these days for fathers to get custody than it used to be. I think most courts are becoming more gender neutral when making decisions about parenting time, and lots of them are upholding a 50/50 presumption whenever it's at all feasible. So you probably have a pretty good chance of getting a more favorable arrangement. Particularly if there is no current parenting plan already in place.

In our state, though, the court likes to uphold the status quo for the kids. So you may have to face a presumption like that. Either way, you really need to get a court ordered parenting plan or visitation plan in place. And court-ordered child support, so she can't just try to make you pay more whenever she wants to.

You can do some of your own research online, check your state court website. They usually have forms and links to the law that will point you in the right direction. They will probably also have a child support calculator that will show what you really should be paying, according to the state. Get knowledgeable about the legal aspects, then go see a lawyer and tell them what you want to do.

Also, ask your attorney about going for the contempt charges at the same time. I would think that if she starts to withold the kids from you and becomes unreasonable about letting you see them or take them as retaliation, then it will reflect very badly on her in the custody case.

Good luck.