Okay this is a philosphical dilemma I have shared with my WS.
We both buy the MB stuff. We've read the books and totally understand the ideas and how they work.
BUT...
Both of us have had this awful sneaking thought of:
Could this work woth anyone?
(Whew I've said it)
In the sense that, if you met someone, (anyone) who you felt attracted to and they felt the same, could you not share the principles behind the MB masterplan for a great realtionship and therefore make any relationship "work".
This really worries me. It takes all the shine off feeling special and being "the one".
It also makes me worry that a WS could share these ideas with the OP and they could build the most fantastic relationship together. (Sorry to put the willies up all the BS, I am one too)
Any ideas gratefully recieved.
kate.

Yes. Anyone. There is no such person as "The One"

Harley is pretty clear any 2 people on the planet can fall in love under the right conditions.

Could what work? MB? No, not for everyone. Y? 'cuz not 'everyone' is willing t/d the work.

The question is how much is the Xws willing to go through to earn back his family's trust? Is the BS willing to wait until that is done? Then the recovery can begin.

JMHO,
L.

Hmm Orchid - I thought the question was pretty clear myself.

But then what is the point of putting yourself back in a failed realtionship if it can work with anyone?

My WS just emailed me this. It his his take on the "Could it work with anyone theory" and therefore should we "bother" puting things back together when they have already gone so wrong?

hi honey,
i was following your logical progression about if you work at it it could be
anyone, but like you say there have to be some assumed foundations.
I think the fact that we are attracted to each other, can talk and entertain
each other, dont argue, are a good team when it comes to getting things
done, and have fashioned a good life together provide a really strong
foundation.
So if we can do less things that make each other unhappy and more things
that make eachother happy we could be on to a winner.
Also by the same logical progression the person with whom the affair starts
probably could be anyone as they would usually be placed against the back
drop of the negativity of the main relationship, thus being less about them
and more about the escape they provide.
In short in most situations i should imagine the person at home would prefer
to be happy at home.
I actually feel so much more positive in the knowledge of the following,
this is to do with us entirely and nothing to do with her, it wasnt anything
to do with her being the one for me it was that the one for me (you) had
stopped behaving as the one for me, this isnt blaming you as i aknowledge
that the reason for you doing this are down to my behaviour towards you.
Thus i feel free of her.
I am going to do my utmost to stop making you unhappy and to start making
you happy and i hope you will consider doing the same for me, we must learn
to be honest in order to get what we want from each other but to do this in
a way that doesnt cause resentment in each other, which is incredibly
difficult but also incredibly simple at the same time.
Previously i thought that the idea of contract was naff and unromantic, but
on reflection i think the idea could prove a stroke of genius and actuall
could be quite romantic and intimate, our secret if you like something
between only us.

Any thoughts?
I'm still stuck with the thought - if it works with anyone why are WS and me special to each other. Are we special to each other? How do you know if someone is uniquely for you if you can make that feeling happen with anyone?
Help! Logic is stopping me try again!

CAN work and WILL work are not the same here. I guess I'm fusing the two above opinions. Any two people CAN, if the right conditions exist, fall in love. If you and a guy are trapped on a desert island and the two of you do what you have to to take care of one another to survive, you CAN fall in love. If you saw the same guy on the streets of New York, you might not give him a second look because the conditions aren't there.

You can't meet a need that doesn't exist. If the need can't be met, then no love units are deposited.

I suppose while any two people COULD fall in love under the right conditions, the majority of the time the only people that fall in love are the people that create those conditions for themselves in the first place.

If you don't give John Doe the opportunity to meet your needs, no love units are deposited.

Hope this helps. Good luck. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks I like the CAN and WILL argument.
Will go and ponder.

Any time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bay - I can see where the confusion is, because now I am confused!!

This statement made by BigKahuna really hit me:

"Harley is pretty clear any 2 people on the planet can fall in love under the right conditions."

So IF this is true, then what is stopping any WS from falling in love with their OP? They are together meeting each others needs, so WHY can't they fall in love? And WHY then does everyone say the affair will fail? If a WS moves in with the OP, then everyone here says they will eventually tire of each other and the affair will bust, but if the above statement is true, then the opposite could VERY WELL happen. They could create the "right conditions" and fall in love and stay in love, right?

I happen to think that people are meant to be together. I believe in soulmates and that "one" person who is meant for you. Now, with that said I think that if a marriage fails, then you CAN find someone else to share your life with, but I think that is when you creat the right conditions and work to love that person and create a life with them.

This is all just my opinion and as you have seen there are many different opinions here!

I kind of disagree the any two people can fall in love under the right conditions. For example...let's base this hypothetical relationship on emotional needs.

Let's say you're a man and your number one emotional need is an attractive spouse. What you find attractive in a woman is someone very short with Asian features and rather one who carries a few extra pounds. This EM is your NUMBER ONE need and extremely important to you. So along comes a 5'8 tall, blonde Swedish woman. She is able to meet all of your other needs extremely well or at least adequately. Sure..there is an attraction because of all those needs being met--but were you to ignore your #1 need, you may always have a feeling of having "settled" or that something is missing.

I do not believe in "soulmates" or "The One". I do believe there are different combinations of looks, personalities, etc that can be right for one person. Could these principles work with any two people who have already fallen in love (say...affair partners)? I do think that eventually they could. But also think of this--think of the deep attachment that comes with having a history together.

Two married people...they know each other's good points, bad points. They basically just know what to expect, what they can live with, what they cannot, etc. Starting over with someone new--they have to learn all that all over again and that takes time-something a married couple already have. A married couple already knows they share good things, things good enough to make them want to marry the other person. They know how to deal with each other. A new couple--they need to start from scratch and who knows if they'll be able to learn how to deal with each other? Affairs muddy the waters because cheaters often rewrite relationship history and downplay the good stuff, and focus on the bad. Can make it hard to remember why you got married in the first place.

Affair partners starting out in marriage also have the additional burden of a beginning full of drama, hurt, lies, etc. Who in the world wants to remember their beginnings as something like that? It's bound to eventually take a toll.

It is MUCH easier and much more SATISFYING to take something broken and to fix it--than to make something completely new when you have no idea if that new thing will work at all.

Hope some of that makes sense.

The key is who we ALLOW to meet our needs. I can head out onto the street and try to meet the needs of some woman I meet...and will probably get arrested!!

Okay, seriously...they have to ALLOW you to meet their needs. Even a WS in the middle of an affair does ALLOW the meeting of some needs. And as the fog clears, they allow more. It is the reason they ended up in an affair. They ALLOWED someone else to meet the needs that werent being met.

Now, if we ALLOW a person...ANY person...to meet our needs, then the meeting of those needs will lead to...love.

In His arms.

Why it doesn't work for WS & OP? Deception, Dishonesty, lies, secrecy, getting away with something forbidden, etc...

Key here is, and think about this now, If OP was your true soul mate, then why did you keep the affair secret?

When you met and started dating your S did you keep it a secret? No, you told the world you were in love! You wanted the world to know you were in love!

When you met OP did you tell the world you were in love? No you kept it a secret! You never wanted anyone to find out and the secret was a key ingredient to the affair. It helped create a bond that only you 2 shared. This is why exposure kills an affair.

Make sense?

See why MB doesn't work for WS & OP, but could work for any other 2 single people?

Exactly the point I was trying to get at. THank you.

And Eagle is onto something also. The reason that the OP and WS dont work out is that they are at the basis of the relationship...selfish. The meeting of needs is only because they want their needs met. Not all of them, though, Some are being met still by the spouse. But as things go along, and they are exposed, they DEMAND that the OP meet those new needs in the way that they need them met. And fortunately, they cant because they are also in selfish mode!

In His arms.

Yes, it is as Bigkahuna said...it could work for anyone.

One huge reason why you'd want to fall back in love with each other...thus put the work into meeting each other's top EN's...is because you have kids together and have a life already established with a history worth working on mending.

I think your H's email shows great promise of his interest in using the MB approach to repairing your marriage so that you both can find joy in each other once again.

The potential is there.

Why would you want to start all over using this stuff in a new relationship when you have kids together and know it is possible to be happy with each other again?

I figure, any new relationship is as much or more of a crap shoot. It is no picnic being in step families...that opens a whole other can of worms.

Thank you, thank you.
You have made me think. Really think. All of you.
I am on the verge of committing to recovery with WH and embarking on joint counselling, but my dilemma was one of the things holding me back, under the heading,
"What is the point?"
I'm still not ready to say to WH ,
"Yes let's give it our best shot", but at least you've helped me eliminate one tiny part of my doubts.
God bless you all.
kate.

Hey, BWV,

I wanted to chime in with a kudo for your FWH...he's finding his way to ownership, being O&H with you by letting his thoughts unfold. I picked up something--could be off base, but I believe he fears something I did...that to have the wrong perspective is to BE wrong...like making a mistake and feeling like one.

His fear can only be faced with honesty and love. If you choose to recommit, I think you will have a whole new man on your hands. And I believe you would hold that man lovingly.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don't see how recovery will begin, even if you decide to commit, until they no longer work together, though. What does he think about this?

LA

I completely agree that you should want to work on your marriage. I agree with Trix's post completely. That what the two people share, a past, children, etc...would be the best thing to work. I mean why would you want to start over?

And I agree that your WH, BWV, seems to be saying the right things and seems to be willing to work on your marriage which is GREAT!

I still do not understand though how you think a WS and an OP can not "fall in love" when they are meeting each others needs. Did their relationship start off secret, yes. Is their relationship based on lies, yes. BUT if a WS moves in with the OP and they never see their BS, then the OP IS meeting ALL their needs and the BS is meeting NONE of them. So if the theory is true that you can fall in love with ANYONE if they are meeting your needs then WHY can't a WS and the OP fall in love?

And let's say that exposure has been done, everyone now knows about the affair and yet the WS and OP are still together. What is to stop them now from "falling in love?" Because if we have no "soulmates" and there is not just "one" person for everyone, then it would seem logical that the person we are spending the most time with is the person we will fall in love with. In some cases that would be the WS and the OP, right?

I totally agree with MB and KNOW that it has saved many marriages. I am just confused now that this has been brought up. Maybe those people that allow the OP to meet their needs totally and don't look back are the ones who actually divorce? I don't know. I wonder what Dr. Harley would say about this?

Again, MB only can help relationships that were built on a good foundation, i.e. honesty, loyalty, committment.

It will do nothing to aid in a fantasy built on the shifting sands of lies, secrecy and pain.

Taking asprin helps if you have a headache, but will do nothing to kill cancer.