Greetings! It's been about 6 months or so since my last update, I think. Thought I'd update everyone on our status. You may recall the following: me:BW-41, toolman:WH-43. OW/OG:-21. DD:9, DS:5.


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2818579

I discovered evidence of the A last june, but continued to collect evidence for another 3 months. DDay around 9/1/06. Toolman was immediately repentant, and has had NC, probably since mid-Sept. I have no reason to believe the A or another A has continued.

Both of us read Surviving The A, and HN/HN, as well as several other books. It was determined that H has a very high EN for physical attractiveness in his spouse. Looking back, it was obvious that this EN has not been met since I was 3 months pregnant with DD:9. Basically, no sexual contact since the clinton administration. (Yes, I think about the fact that the OG (other girl--can't bring myself to call her a woman) was only 17, the last time H and I were together "that way.")
I gained a bunch of weight with the kids, and still have some to lose. I have been taking better care of myself, and plan to run in a triathalon in 5 weeks. No, I don't have the body of a triathalete, but at least I have it in me to do a 1/3 mile swim, 15 mile bike, and 3.5 mile run, all in around 2 hours.
H and I have been in MC, and in fact had been in MC several times before, just to tune-up the M. MC was pro-marriage, but couldn't believe toolman had an A while we were in MC. Basically, I didn't think we were getting anywhere, so I ended the MC.
We don't really commit any LB's, but there is still no love. I already have decided that I'm not taking another chance on him. Can't bear the thought of piecing it back together, just to have him leave me 10 years from now for a woman half my age. His demonstrated high EN for physical attractiveness will make me paranoid and suspicious forever.

Since then, we've put the kids into some family counseling, just to make sure none of this is wearing off on them. FC says they are doing wonderfully. FC seems to have her sights set on fixing our M, but she doesn't realize what a losing battle this is. She has suggested a procedure called "Controlled Separation" which sounds a little like plan-B, since it seems to be intended to make each spouse realise what they would miss if they D. H is still hopeful to re-kindle the M, and asks if I'd consider it. I've said, "Sure, but if we go to the trouble of separating our very tangled lives, I will most certainly want to D." The only thing keeping us together is children, and the fact that we run our corporation together. Once those tethers are cut, I see no reason to ever want to be his wife again. I have no problem with our "parenting cooperative" and our "business cooperative," but if we go ahead and make those splits, I'll be ready to go.
My situation seems very different than many on the site, since I see most folks who are fighting for the M are the BS's. In this case, I'm the BS, there has been NC, and WS is regretful A happened, and WS wants the M to work. I just can't bring myself to ever open myself up for that kind of pain ever again.
Went to my first IC session with new counselor. He said, "after all the MC, FC, and IC, if it hasn't worked yet, it's not likely to change. I told Toolman about this session, and he's depressed now. I guess the news was kind of an LB, but he asked how the session went. IC said it's highly unlikely that we'll get happier, if nothing has happened after all this effort. Well, that's where I am now.
Glad to see that Melody, Pep, MM, Believer, EAV, Wonderings, and the rest are still here helping folks. Sorry to say it looks like ours will not be a success story.

Good to here from you:

You can be a success story if you can move forward with your life with no regrets. Assuming Toolman is repentent, you can grant forgiveness to Toolman and still divorce him. You are not expected or required to accept and/or forget his actions and reconcile. To stay married to him would be a gift, a gift you do not have to give.

Toolman can also be sucessful in his recovery by being repentent and not ever bitter because he was not given another chance. He had his chance, he made his choices, IMA doesn't have to give him a chance...he should take his consequences, accept them and move on gracefully, knowing he did all he could to "try" to make things better and recover his marriage. Some things he just can't fix.

You two can be healthier and your children will be benefitted if you two resolve all your issues and move on in a loving, albeit strained, co-parenting, friendly relationship. Not saying you have to or it's your responsiblity to do this. Just try, if you want.

Perhaps many will tell you IMA that you don't need friends like Toolman. That once you are divorced you should just move away from him. Friends don't cheat on you or maybe you desire to continue punishing him by withholding your friendship as well (which would be obviously unhealthy for you). I disagree in your situation. Again, it's your choice, but as you progress down this divorce road you two have time and could forge a new friendship which will assist you both as you move forward individually with your lives. You both represent a large chunck of each other's history. It would be a shame to lose all that after the mistake (for which he appears repentent) Toolman has made. Your choice, but as friends you will likley be better co-parents.

Good to hear from you.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

Good to see you again. Thanks for the update. I'm always wondering what happened when folks don't post.

Have you seen this article?

The authors say your marriage will be happier in 5 years if you just endure.

Does Divorce Make People Happy?
Findings from a Study of Unhappy Marriages

Call it the "divorce assumption." Most people assume that a person stuck in a bad marriage has two choices: stay married and miserable or get a divorce and become happier.1 But now come the findings from the first scholarly study ever to test that assumption, and these findings challenge conventional wisdom. Conducted by a team of leading family scholars headed by University of Chicago sociologist Linda Waite, the study found no evidence that unhappily married adults who divorced were typically any happier than unhappily married people who stayed married.

Even more dramatically, the researchers also found that two-thirds of unhappily married spouses who stayed married reported that their marriages were happy five years later. In addition, the most unhappy marriages reported the most dramatic turnarounds: among those who rated their marriages as very unhappy, almost eight out of 10 who avoided divorce were happily married five years later.2

The research team used data collected by the National Survey of Family and Households, a nationally representative survey that extensively measures personal and marital happiness. Out of 5,232 married adults interviewed in the late Eighties, 645 reported being unhappily married. Five years later, these same adults were interviewed again. Some had divorced or separated and some had stayed married.

The study found that on average unhappily married adults who divorced were no happier than unhappily married adults who stayed married when rated on any of 12 separate measures of psychological well-being. Divorce did not typically reduce symptoms of depression, raise self-esteem, or increase a sense of mastery. This was true even after controlling for race, age, gender, and income. Even unhappy spouses who had divorced and remarried were no happier on average than those who stayed married. "Staying married is not just for the childrens' sake. Some divorce is necessary, but results like these suggest the benefits of divorce have been oversold," says Linda J. Waite.

Why doesn't divorce typically make adults happier? The authors of the study suggest that while eliminating some stresses and sources of potential harm, divorce may create others as well. The decision to divorce sets in motion a large number of processes and events over which an individual has little control that are likely to deeply affect his or her emotional well-being. These include the response of one's spouse to divorce; the reactions of children; potential disappointments and aggravation in custody, child support, and visitation orders; new financial or health stresses for one or both parents; and new relationships or marriages.

The team of family experts that conducted the study included Linda J. Waite, Lucy Flower Professor of Sociology at the University of Chicago and coauthor of The Case for Marriage; Don Browning, Professor Emeritus of the University of Chicago Divinity School; William J. Doherty, Professor of Family Social Science and Director of the Marriage and Family Therapy program at the University of Minnesota; Maggie Gallagher, affiliate scholar at the Institute for American Values and coauthor of The Case for Marriage; Ye Luo, a research associate at the Sloan Center on Parents, Children and Work at the University of Chicago; and Scott Stanley, Co-Director of the Center for Marital and Family Studies at the University of Denver.

Marital Turnarounds: How Do Unhappy Marriages Get Happier?

To follow up on the dramatic findings that two-thirds of unhappy marriages had become happy five years later, the researchers also conducted focus group interviews with 55 formerly unhappy husbands and wives who had turned their marriages around. They found that many currently happily married spouses have had extended periods of marital unhappiness, often for quite serious reasons, including alcoholism, infidelity, verbal abuse, emotional neglect, depression, illness, and work reversals.

Why did these marriages survive where other marriages did not? Spouses' stories of how their marriages got happier fell into three broad headings: the marital endurance ethic, the marital work ethic, and the personal happiness ethic.

In the marital endurance ethic, the most common story couples reported to researchers, marriages got happier not because partners resolved problems, but because they stubbornly outlasted them. With the passage of time, these spouses said, many sources of conflict and distress eased: financial problems, job reversals, depression, child problems, even infidelity.
In the marital work ethic, spouses told stories of actively working to solve problems, change behavior, or improve communication. When the problem was solved, the marriage got happier. Strategies for improving marriages mentioned by spouses ranged from arranging dates or other ways to more time together, enlisting the help and advice of relatives or in-laws, to consulting clergy or secular counselors, to threatening divorce and consulting divorce attorneys.
Finally, in the personal happiness epic, marriage problems did not seem to change that much. Instead married people in these accounts told stories of finding alternative ways to improve their own happiness and build a good and happy life despite a mediocre marriage.
The Powerful Effects of Commitment

Spouses interviewed in the focus groups whose marriages had turned around generally had a low opinion of the benefits of divorce, as well as friends and family members who supported the importance of staying married. Because of their intense commitment to their marriages, these couples invested great effort in enduring or overcoming problems in their relationships, they minimized the importance of difficulties they couldn't resolve, and they actively worked to belittle the attractiveness of alternatives.

The study's findings are consistent with other research demonstrating the powerful effects of marital commitment on marital happiness. A strong commitment to marriage as an institution, and a powerful reluctance to divorce, do not merely keep unhappily married people locked in misery together. They also help couples form happier bonds. To avoid divorce, many assume, marriages must become happier. But it is at least equally true that in order to get happier, unhappy couples or spouses must first avoid divorce. "In most cases, a strong commitment to staying married not only helps couples avoid divorce, it helps more couples achieve a happier marriage," notes research team member Scott Stanley.

Would most unhappy spouses who divorced have ended up happily married if they had stuck with their marriages?

The researchers who conduced the study cannot say for sure whether unhappy spouses who divorced would have become happy had they stayed with their marriages. In most respects, unhappy spouses who divorced and unhappy spouses who stayed married looked more similar than different (before the divorce) in terms of their psychological adjustment and family background. While unhappy spouses who divorced were on average younger, had lower household incomes, were more likely to be employed or to have children in the home, these differences were typically not large.

Were the marriages that ended in divorce much worse than those that did not? There is some evidence for this point of view. Unhappy spouses who divorced reported more conflict and were about twice as likely to report violence in their marriage than unhappy spouses who stayed married. However, marital violence occurred in only a minority of unhappy marriages: 21 percent of unhappy spouses who divorced reported husband-to-wife violence, compared to nine percent of unhappy spouses who stayed married.

On the other hand, if only the worst marriages ended up in divorce, one would expect divorce to be associated with important psychological benefits. Instead, researchers found that unhappily married adults who divorced were no more likely to report emotional and psychological improvements than those who stayed married. In addition, the most unhappy marriages reported the most dramatic turnarounds: among those who rated their marriages as very unhappy, almost eight out of 10 who avoided divorce were happily married five years later.

More research is needed to establish under what circumstances divorce improves or lessens adult well-being, as well as what kinds of unhappy marriages are most or least likely to improve if divorce is avoided.

Other Findings

Other findings of the study based on the National Survey Data are:

The vast majority of divorces (74 percent) took place to adults who had been happily married when first studied five years earlier. In this group, divorce was associated with dramatic declines in happiness and psychological well-being compared to those who stayed married.
Unhappy marriages are less common than unhappy spouses; three out of four unhappily married adults are married to someone who is happy with the marriage.
Staying married did not typically trap unhappy spouses in violent relationships. Eighty-six percent of unhappily married adults reported no violence in their relationship (including 77 percent of unhappy spouses who later divorced or separated). Ninety-three percent of unhappy spouses who avoided divorce reported no violence in their marriage five years later.

Thank you, Mr. Wondering and Believer for your sage words. I am somewhat ambivalent about the idea of divorce. Honestly, the only reason I would want it is because I want to have an intimate physical and emotional relationship with a man who appreciates me. Toolman is not particularly emotionally abusive anymore, and I really don't worry about anymore A's from him. (Probably more of a concern for me--since I don't feel any real obligation to be faithful at this time. Good thing there are no prospects...)
Believer, I think our marriage already falls into that "endurance thing." When my IC asked me today why we were still married after all the counseling, etc., I honestly answered that I think we're still married because we're stubborn. Not because we have some special transcendental love, but because we hate to admit to failure or to being wrong (about selecting the spouse).

There are many reasons to stay married, for the children, to avoid step-parenting, for the corporation, for the financial benefits. Unfortunately, I don't envision this path leading to "happiness" for either of us. I worry that the children will come to think that it's ok to stay in a marriage where there are no hugs, no holding hands, no arms around the waist. I'd hate my daughter to think that she only deserves that kind of love while she is young and has a firm, tiny waist.
Right now, I've kind of resigned myself to unhappiness and dissatisfaction, and told myself, "grow up! only children have a right to happiness and satisfaction. once you have children, you don't get to make choices based on what will make YOU happy. joy is not an entitlement."

Beliver,
I just read this study from your post and it is so reassuring. I hope it is true. To believe that just enduring long enough will help turn things around, suits me just fine. I think that is what I am doing, enduring and working on myself in the meantime.

first this .....



and then this ...



Huston, we have a problem.

You have sexual aversion PRIOR to his A.

Why?

Pep

PS ... just added ... was the No-sex marriage policy OK with YOU for all those "dry" years ????

Do you consider yourself to be a sexual person?

dkljj-
The actual study is about 50 pages long - the above is just a synopsis. I know it is true, because I've seen it happen in so many people's lives.

I know lots of women that have been married many years, and had awful periods in the marriage where they wanted to divorce. They are all happy that they endured.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



~everyone~ who tries to recover their marriage after infidelity is stubborn

this is not a bad thing, I think

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pep

people who struggle with learning disabilities graduate from college because they are too stubborn to give up

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] I just can't bring myself to ever open myself up for that kind of pain ever again. [/color]

are you going to join a convent?

how about drugging yourself for the remainder of your life?

you "open yourself up" to the PAIN of athletic training (BRAVA , by-the-way !)

which is a very BOLD move on your part

and I suspect there is some (left-over) courage to attempt intimacy again ... inside of you

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

and I think facing your intimacy fear is do-able

Pep

.

this is an OLD thread ?????

sheesh!

sorry kiddo

Pep

.

Wow! I found this thread, when I went back to look at where my head was at when toolman restarted his contact and A with the little lady. Lo, and behold, I started suddenly feeling pretty bad about things at the beginning of May. What happened at the beginning of may? Oh, yeah, that's right!! Toolman started his A!

Dawn has broken on the Serengetti. The lights are on all around me. I can't call this a false recovery, since we hadn't ever "recovered", but I will call it a major disappointment.

I guess since Toolman will soon discover my alter-ego, once he reads my emails to the wonderings, I'll link that thread over to here, and resume posting as imanotherone.

Just remember, anything we say WILL be read by Toolman.

I just posted this in hopefulinnc's death of a marriage thread, but thought I'd put it here, too, since it kinda summarizes what has happened in my mind.

Oh you guys!! Reading hopefulinnc and stargazelily's threads makes me start crying all over again. My marriage died in my mind today, too.

No, it won't be in the obit pages, but I've met with the lawyer today, and the ball is in motion. My parents will never speak to WH again, because, as stargaze did, I confessed the full extent of the A. They can NEVER accept him back as the SonIL they once loved.

My deconstruction is complete. I thought I was deconstructed the first D-day, but I had no idea how much worse it could get. Now, we'll begin the dividing up of all that once was whole. Half the money, half the friends, half the time with the kids.

With each new milestone our children reach, graduation from various schools, parents' day, grandparent's day, birthday parties, slumber parties, first boyfriend, first girlfriend, off to college, weddings, funerals. All of this will be "halved" because that is what happens when a marriage dies.

Ok, now I'm crying all over again. What a true loss. I guess I just wrote my marriage obit.

link to current thread http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0&fpart=1