Just wondering if any one else had experienced this with their WS. It has been 8 monhts since d-day and over the last few weeks, anytime I try to communicate my feelings or mention the OW to my h, he reacts in anger. Outward expressions to a magnified extent I haven't seen before-- breaking things, etc. I do not fear any physical harm. I read I think in the book, After the Affair, how guilt and anger are closely related. When I have asked him if he didn't want to know I how I felt, he told me that yes he did want to know but not in the way I was doing it. He said he felt like I was asking questions looking for something that was not there. Do you suppose the guilt may now be hitting him? He has kept the boundaries I have set down so far but I still am having a hard time trusting him, even though I want to trust him so bad. I told him I can't help but think he is lying even when my head tells my it is probably the truth. I still verify often. He said to me well I think you are lying to me. I carefully thought about how to respond and tried to give him feedback and said are you saying that because you think I am lying to you, you think it is justified for you to lie to me? That is when he got really angry. His lies are mostly lies of omission. Most of the time I don't want to talk about it but there are days when the unanswered questions really bother me. He gives the classical I don't remember answer. He has a ONS 3 years into our m, confessed a year later but forgot to mention a child, then he had secret visit with "the child" in the home of the OW and another alleged OC "just happened" 5 years later when he said he was angry with me and the OW has just been dumped by her bf. He didn't confess. In fact, he denied to the very end. I confronted the OW via e-mail and she called me and told me. Even then, my h still denied everything and he questioned whether the OW actually called me. I said fine I will just take everything she said as the truth then. Then he confessed and he was more truthful than she was.
On my d-day the ages of the children were 15 & 9. My h has a 22 year old d by a previous gf, he later married. We have a 14 yo d.

I love my h and want to rebuild or m, but I question is his angry outburst an attempt to prevent me for bringing up the topic or could this be because he may be filling more guilt now than before and doesn't know how to face it. Easier to blame me and lash out than to face the guilt maybe. We have went to mc several times, but haven't really focused on it lately because we have focused on getting our 14 yo d, IC, and family counseling. She has intense, unexpressed angry toward her dad and I want to do everything I can to keep the negative influence of this from impacting her adult life. My h has extremely limited c, but my ILs have pushed c and have befriended the OW.

Any thoughts on the guilt/anger? Any suggestions on how to precede. I have learned to control my emotions much better than before. I believe my h has had nc with OW since Dec. Prior to that it was her calling him at work several times after my d-day in August. My h mostly sees the children at my ILs, when they have arranged for the children to be there when they know he is going to be there for other reasons.

OW has demanded I never meet the children. She has had her own d-day. Who knows what my h told her or promised her. Our d has meet the children once and then visited one more time, but the 16 year old girl decided to go nc with her.

I don't mean to ramble but it is good to vent. Back to my original question, has anyone else experienced the ws anger and do you believe it is related to guilt or a form of attempted manipulation?

Ann

WB,

I have to run right now, but will try and post to this tomorrow. Your FWH is acting very much like my FWH has off and on over the past 29 months since d-day.

Who

My WW uses the same type of tactics with me. I look at my FWW as a magician now and it helps me stay calm and take breaks if it gets too intense.

Magicians use misdirection in many cases to perform their magic trick. They waive their hands yell hocus pocus or whatever to divert your attention from where the slight of hand is taking place. In other words look over here not over there.

Now when she is trying to divert my attention by yelling or getting angry I simply say "I can see this upsetting you and that is not my intention why don't we take a break for a while until we can discuss this calmly"

BTW when my wife tells me she can't remember I tell her to please sit down and try because it is important to me so I hope it is important to you.

Of course none of this is really working for me because my FWW seems to be the Houdini of diversion. LOL. I do however hope this helps you.

if he has any conscience, then it is guilt driven anger. If not then it could be manipulation.

I am an expert in the former. That is not a proud remark. It has hindered the very existance of my wife... and me.

Certainly an amount of guilt is a drving factor for change. I don't like that I did such and such... I feel bad about doing that... I think I will change.

seems logical and easy, actually.

Now, imagine the most horrid person you can imagine. A WS. A murder. A child molester. You name it. Picture this person in your mind. Imagine all the horrible things you can imagine about this person. Right down to the rotting filthy teeth... like right out of the movies. The image has to be horrible. Horror movie horrible.

Now imagine that person is you. And you can't get away from you. And your 'stuck' with this victim thrashing and thrashing at what you did. And you feel horrible for it. And you feel horrible about feeling horrible. And then the pain of misery starts to consume you and you start to look for anyway out of this misery.

"you shouldn't have done this to begin with" really doesn't do much, because given the choice with a true advertisement of what the consequences would be, I certainly wouldn't be here right now. No one can change the past. No matter how much you wish for it.

It just becomes consuming and you have to get the feelings out somehow. Being unable to do something to relieve pressure or being unable to repair damage becomes frustrating. Over a short time this can become explosive anger.

All of this rooted, for us conscience having FWS's, in the fact that we can not get away from the evil person in our lives.... which is us.

maybe that is insight

maybe that is crap.

Your call. I am truly sorry that you are enduring the pain you are. Please take care.

thanks for your replies

I hope my h has a conscience. I believe he is starting to feel guilt and that is why the angry outburst have started, but how do you know, or do you ever know for sure, is it guilt induced anger or manipulation?

Ann

Patriot,

You can do something, you can repair the damage, if you really want to. That's what this site is all about, open your mind and heart to the principles here, take them to heart and apply them. You can do this.

It could be a little of both. I replied earlier and I have actually had a break through with my FWW last night and this morning. I showed her Josephs letter. I also explained to her that until I know the truth I am going to think the worst. Whatever situation you put yourself in if I don't know the TRUTH about the details my truth is an assumption and it may or may not be worse then what happened. This morning I found out some details and they were not even close to what I was thinking happened.

When I brought up what I thought happened she said thats not what happened you are way off. I said without the truth thats what might happen. Do you want me to make assumptions that may be way off or do you want to tell me the truth. She has decided to tell me the truth so far.

She was angry and hostile with me. I avoided confrontation at all costs. I wanted to yell and scream and call her names but I didn't. I explained to her that she was being hostile toward me and she said what do you expect you keep asking me the same things over and over. This is the first time that I made sure that I was not going to let her guilt, anger, or manipulation work against a positive outcome. She just called me and said she is willing to be honest with the condition that after she is radically honest that I stop asking for details. I agreed to that but said thats different then discussing the situation and how we are going to work through it.

You stay calm do not let it get off track. Back off if you need to but do not drop it. Several times I told her that the road we are going down is not productive I just want to stay on track.

Every step of the way I reassured her that I wasn't trying to punish her I just NEED this to move to the next step in recovery. I never threatned divorce or leaving her.

There might be one other thing that may be causing this as well. DIVORCE in his mind. If anything he did could hurt him in a court of law if you do decide to get a divorce he may be protecting himself. I had to tell my FWW that I know enough already that it could hurt you in court not knowing the details will assure we end up there. I didn't try to use it as a threat I used it to tell her that knowing the details might stop that from happening.

yearsofhurt


thanks

I don't think he is thinking of d or is concerned about what may or may not hurt him in court. Two OC by the same OW, years of lies and secret visits, I don't know what else would hurt him in court. But then again, what do I know, how in the world didn't I know about this for so long--16 years.

On my d-day, I think my h thought I would surely d him. Before d-day, I thought I would surely d him if I ever found proof of another A. He said he would understand if I d him. I asked him what he wanted. He was suprised but he said he wanted to remain married. He has said that he knows it will be hard but I get so tired of it begin hard for me all the time. I don't want to punish him or keep asking question but I think I have to until I can get this behind me.

Other than sending him to an anger management class <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, which I doubt he would go, I don't know how else to tell him he needs to deal with it. How do you make a person face what they have done? I don't know.

Ann

You don't make a person face what they have done. They have to make that decesion.

When you say you don't want to punish him does that mean you are?

If you have a history of punishing him when he is honest he might not want to be honest.

I think we all get tired of it being hard all of the time.

I know it can get better. Or at least i hope I know.

Years


I don't believe that I am. I think he perceives that I am trying to punish him by bringing up OW/OC. I don't bring it up that often, but there are still unanswered questions that I need answered to move on. I can't just sweep it under the rug.


No, I don't believe there is a history of me punishing him. I have been emotional but I have a better handle on that now. Although, he has said he knows it will be hard for us to get through this, it is like he forgets that sometimes and when something hurts I don't sob like I used to but tears have streamed and I have told him how I feel.

Ann