mmmmmmmmm

maybe it's productive for Stanley ...

and he matters too ya know!

Pep

PS ... I agree with Stanley ... I see no evidence of foggy-thinking ... no illogic-circular-thinking ... I see a woman who willingly walked straight into the danger zone with both eyes open.... reminds me of Low Orbit's coffee date with OW ...HE terminated his marriage by flaunting the agreed boundaries

how is this different???

Kiwi... I am _______ something .... no words

KiwiJ:

This has nothing to do about been a nice person or not. In fact you and your H are probably way above me in terms of having a good heart.

The laws of nature are clear-------any of us (and that includes me) can fall in love with someone other than the spouse. I have no problems with that concept.

Here is the deal:

If I am the one that falls for someone else I would hopefully do it in the open and end my marriage before doing the deed. It is also likely that if I fall in love with someone else I would not fall back in love with my wife. At least--------I don’t think I could do. I don’t love my wife because she meets specific emotional needs. I simply like the whole package and for me it was love at first sight.

The only reason I stayed married is because my wife wanted the marriage more than her OM----------That was obvious. OM was a dalliance----a supplement to a pretty good marriage------a way for Myrta to deal with MLC.

Myrta ditched OM like a dirty rag. In fact Myrta was ruthless with OM ------the poor guy never had a chance.

I never had to give comfort to my wife because she was grieving the loss of OM. I never had to fight to get her back. In fact I used to ask her to leave on a regular basis and I love-busted constantly degrading her OM. Recovering the marriage is the hardest thing I have ever done and I had to swallow a lot of pride. Like BP I also defined my manhood by having a wife that would not stray.

KiwiJ----your H is a great man---way better than me with a whole lot more empathy, less false pride, and a greater understanding of the human condition. If Myrta had wanted the OM I would have gotten rid of her. I don’t think I am man enough to put up a fight like your H did. I am not classy enough to keep my mouth shut and not say love busters in the aftermath of d-day.

I also believe that VERY FEW marriages recover from an affair. I bet that those that stay together simply learn how to live in a marriage where all the innocence and the magic is replaced by being practical and the concept of “lets do the best we can with what we have”.

KiwiJ----you wanted to leave your H for OM. I understand OM backed out of the deal. This means that H was second choice-----------no doubt. Maybe there is no such thing a complete recovery from this situation. I can tell you with 100% certainty that I would not want Myrta in that manner.

I know that the above is extremely harsh, but I truly believe that this is the reality of infidelity. I also believe that you have been fooling yourself when you say you feel nothing for OM. The truth of the matter is that you will always love OM. And you need to talk with H.

All that comes to my mind is yuck, yuck, yuck.

After all H and I have gone through, I cannot imagine being in your position.

(I don't think I have the energy in me!)

well here's the thing ...



I do not believe you ....

why?

because you are not stupid

I think you KNEW it would HURT your husband if you spoke to OM ... and so, you did not tell your H about it

and you did it anyway

it was not innocent

it was a sneaky taste of OM from the moment you spoke to him ... just admit it

I cannot stand the sugar-coating going on in this thread ... I just can't

Pep

Jen, I believe you when you say you're too tired to post right now. That's okay.

Save the energy for things that will really help you regain your integrity.

That starts with talking to your husband and getting right with yourself. You can do it. It will be hard -- and you can do it.

kiwij,

I was reading your post and I must have grimmaced because my husband asked me what was wrong? I asked him if he would give me a big hug. while we were hugging, I asked him to never hurt me again. He said NEVER...and squeezed me tighter. I thought to myself, how can H keep that promise? I squeezed tighter too....

Your thread scared me. Just the thought of my H ever seeing OW again scared the sh** out of me. I hope you are not to tired to tell your H right now. If you don't, it will hurt your H more than you could possibly understand (this coming from a BS point of view) Just remember, he deserves better, much better than to be cheated on twice, and in my eyes he has been.

In reading this thread, I see two different views here --

One group being her (Kiwi) friends. And, I do find it very honorable that her friends are supporting her. That is what friends are supposed to do and I think that is wonderful.

One group being those in support of MB principles.

And, not that her friend are not in support of MB principles ~ they are just giving advice in a more gentle way.

Does that make sense ??

Carnation

Jen:

Well, pigs can fly, 2, though not very often...


At the end of the day, there's still you and the baggage you carry. There's still 2morrow 2 face - 2morrow 2 define. I know you well enough 2 know that you won't let these events - a falling off the fidelity wagon of sorts - define you here on out.

You ARE a smart person. A thoughtful one, 2. I believe you will do the right thing and talk with your H about what happened and get his help in re-establishing NC. Maybe have HIM bump in2 OM next time? (prolly not a good idea, unless he's definitely not prone 2 violence).





Sadly, this stuff happens. Most of us remain human after our experiences with infidelity. And humans make dumb mistakes.

I'm eagerly looking forward 2 what you - the thoughtful Jen - decide 2 do next.

best,
-ol' 2long

"Empathy:


The BS loses weight to the point of looking emaciated and chronically ill. The BS is unable to sleep, work, or even perform simple tasks. The sadness is overwhelming and is there every second of every minute, of every hour, of every day for at least two years. At some point the BS would rather die. As per the experts--------- perhaps the greatest blow a human will ever endure in the planet is infidelity . Some even say it is worse than losing a child."

Um... ...that ain't "empathy" AT ALL. What you describe - what many of us here have felt at one time or another - is the shattering of the fairy-tale, happily-ever-after M that we thought we signed up for. It was never real, it was a figment of our imaginations. Our trust in our spouse (and theirs in us) was blind, and as such it was misplaced. It is certainly sad that we end up having 2 learn this lesson in such a hard way, but it is what it is.

I used 2 believe the adage that infidelity is a more terrible thing for a WS 2 do 2 a BS than the death of a loved one. I no longer believe that. And perhaps when the hurt is less fresh for you, you won't either.

"Then the wayward spouse repeats the exact behavior that caused all that pain. IMHO-----------THAT IS LACK OF EMPATHY IN IT’S MORE PURE FORM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

This assumes that the WS does this *to* the BS. First and foremost, they lower themselves by succumbing 2 their own selfish desires. Thus, they are hurting themselves. But it IS a lack of empathy. A fog-induced inability 2 be empathic.

As for the BS? After my own experiences with infidelity, I won't be blind-sided again. I didn't enjoy the victim mentality last time, and I couldn't be "forced" in2 it again. I've grown 2 much for that. That doesn't mean I'll be vindictive - I won't. Rather the opposite: I'll be empathetic.

"As I said before----one that knows the affair of an anatomy has no excuse for this behavior. Not all marriages can be saved-------many perish in the 2-5 year period after the affair."

How many? I'm really interested. We often hear stats about affair-based marriages having less than a 5% chance of surviving beyond 5 years. What about first marriages subjected 2 infidelity? Is it really "many" that fail in the initial post-A years?

"If Myrta did what KiwiJ did I would not be interested in saving the marriage. And you know what. Myrta agrees with me. She would be the 1st one to tell you that at that point there is no marriage to save."

But there was no marriage while the A was going on, either? Why try 2 save it then? More importantly, why not make something better?



I think Jen has the 2ls 2 make her fu2re a heckuva lot better than her past, and in my view most of her past since she came 2 MB and I've been reading here have been pretty productive.

This was an upset, 2 be sure. Her H has a right 2 make his own choices as 2 what he wants 2 do about this. They're going 2 have 2 slog through this, and it might be hard.

But ol' 2long's optimistic re their chances.

-ol' 2long

Pep:

Not quite the same thing as LowOrbit's coffee incident.

At the time, that seemed really dumb 2 me. Dumber, though, was his W's apparently over-hardened reaction 2 it. ...then, we learned that she was having an A, which explained (but certainly didn't justify) her reaction.

-ol' 2long

Two things I would say not to Jen, but to th eposters discussing this here.

1. This should be a wake up call to complacent FWS and BS in the mid period of their recovery that they must be vigilant FOR EVER. Jen & Ron were one of the most settled, and calmly advanced-recovering couples I know of, yet Jen deliberately and knowingly walked into a marital bear trap in response to the very slightest of provocation. HOWEVER recovered you may feel, ASSUME NOTHING ! ALWAYS remain vigilant. This surely reinforces a rarely-proved (on thee bards anyway) harley tenet that NC violations present the ultimat erisk to recovery and extreme precautions must be taken to avoid it.

2. However you feel about Jen's behaviour here, you really should not wish any 'just desserts' on her. Firstly because Rob is a gentle, smart man who loved her but mostly because ANY of us recovering couples are potentially a cup of coffee away from this same situation however vehemently we may reject the possibility.

I have already spoken to squid about the need for her to tell me immediately of ANY NC vilation in wither direction , as any secrets here will lead to disaster.

* Couldn't sleep because of thoughts of you and Rob and praying for you. You dug yourself in the sh1t darl' truly.

Think DEEP about your motovations in this, as pep suggests. You're FAR too smart andeducated in the ways of affairs to believe that "I thought talking wouldn't urt" horsesh1t.

If you want this OM, you MUST divorce Rob first. If you want Rob, you MUST NEVER EVER contact him again. You know this.

All blessings.

Jen,

You do realize that using a 2x4 is useless on pond scum. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I may be dumb but even I know that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> What I do know is that as Pep said you knew what was going to happen.

The question is why did you do this? You need to sort that out first and foremost. I realize you are tired and I am sure this is now weighing very heavily upon you.

But, Jen, you need to stop, think, evaluate. Do you really want to remain married to your H? If so what did you say to yourself that would make being in contact with OM again? I will trust your statements that nothing sexual happened, but you got something out of it or you would NOT have risked what you have. You really need to stop and think about this.

You are a good woman, you are a good person, what is happening within you that would make this OK? Please think about this OK?

I am sure there will be plenty here to talk with you tomorrow when you have time. But, please think about this, OH! I am glad you brought it here. My hope is that you will be glad you brought it here as well.

God Bless,

JL

From Penalty Kill

KiwiJ, I don't know your backstory; I'm picking up pieces here and there from various posters.

You said once, in a post directed at me, that it was a shame you didn't see my perspective, since as FWWs we ought to be able to understand each other.

And now I confess that I don't understand why you would go for a drink w/OM, but that is neither here nor there.

I wish you strength and courage.

I printed out your "conversation" with a BS and gave it to my WH to read.
I really like your posts and admire your honesty and clarity of thinking.
When I read this post, my heart sank because I though you had "made it" , done what I feel to be the impossible.
You can still do it though.
It is evident from your posts that you love your husband deeply. Love is not the issue. The issue is respect.
If you truly respected him you would not trade his peace of mind for a quick ego boost with a man that you KNOW is just a fantasy.
You DO know that OM is fantasy and your H is reality.
Please tell your H. Please go and think very carefully and if you have to face the fact that you have been selfish and snidey then face that and then heave yourself up to comfort your H.
I really, really, really, hope you can get back on track.
Your OM sounds like poison.
Kate

Jen - you know what to do. You know it.

Just do it.

WAT

Jen... I'm not part of the inner circle here at GQII, and I don't know if I've ever posted to you or not. But I will say that you are one of the posters who I paid lots of attention to when I first found this place. I needed an FWW to kind of guide me through early stages of recovery, and through your posts, that's exactly what you did. Thank you for being there for me.

My heart sank when I read about this. Like JL said, you need to understand why you did it. And of course, talk to your H.

This is one of those times that I am ecstatic that the FOM in my case lives several states and nearly 1000 miles away. This makes the chances of the kind of incidental contact you experienced virtually nil.

Be strong, Jen.

You were tempted....and failed, but:
Because OM ended the A, you now got another chance to choose be with/see, the OM...know you could have him again....and still choose your H. You, maybe, finally saw OM for the scum he really is. Maybe you can finally get the closure that you may have felt you lacked.

I hope you speak the truth to your H, from your heart.

It was still wrong to kid yourself into thinking you could remain 'indifferent' to OM...that there was nothing wrong with just chatting. I agree that you are smarter than that delusion. You do confirm that what Harley says is right.

No Contact, must be for life.

DO IT NOW JEN.

And never take another puff. You can't be a social smoker, ever.

GC

Was out last week/weekend taking care of a very sick Wookie.

I'm crying.

Jen....you gave me insight...you lifted me up....and I love you so very much.

I am so disappointed in you. But my disappointment level is finite, and it will end.

I still love you....and I'll lift YOU up now....but you MUST lead by example. You MUST do the right thing.

Rob is your dearest love, your own sweet man. He NEEDS you to do the right thing. YOU need you to do the right thing.

Again, I love you so much....and I am here for you.

- Kimmy

Kiwi, saying hello to the OM in the grocery store sounds
reasonable enough. I don't think you should be expected to leave your cart and run. So that can be over-looked as just being polite.

HOWEVER, meeting him for coffee and again for drinks most definitely crossed the line.

Afterall, you had a sexual affair with this former high school sweetheart for a year and a half.

YOU HAD TO KNOW THIS WAS WRONG AND MORE THAN A FRIENDLY CHAT.

I wonder if there were any touches, whatsoever???
You said in another thread, on May 2, that you are vulnerable to this OM. So the caution light was there yet you continued on.

How you could hurt your husband with this deceitfulness is hard to understand. (Or were you just not thinking of him or that he would never know?) Were you in a public place? Couldn't it get back to your husband that you were with OM?

Oh, Kiwi, you MUST tell your dear husband before he finds out from someone else.

Grace Elizabeth