That is helpful. I do have a date in the near future for evaluating Plan A, though like I said earlier I was ready and planning to move out last Sunday, but due to seeing a leeeetle progress, and Plan A only recently really working, I chose to wait until my original date to evaluate and either leave or stay longer. My love is not worn out yet, though I am watching it.
It is amazing how much I have grown, and that she does not see as much of it. No matter, for I am complete in myself, and I am pleased with my own personal growth. My "giver" has grown a lot, and for that I am grateful. God has already worked this trial for good in my life. Further up and further in! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

So until the A ends, should I leave? I have gotten mixed counsel here (Harley himself said stay as long as I am able to without losing my love for my wife). Most of the advise to leave has been with the thought of protecting myself from pain and abuse and "being used". But all of that seems to be what you have to deal with in Plan A (and Plan B or divorce are not without pain and "being used" either). So what is really true to MB concepts?

1W,

I do not understand why you are so ready to leave your home. If you leave your house,

1. Your WW will have custody of your children. Is that what you really want, WW being in charge of bringing up your children when she does not have moral integrity (at the moment)? Her moral depravity will pass on to your children, you know. Yes, she may have some good qualities as a person and a mother, but she is not a good role model for your children. You need to protect your children, and that should be your priority. I can never understand when BHs are willing to give up on their children without a fight. It makes no sense to me. You may not get custody, but giving one's children up without a fight is one of the most depraved things a father can do in my opinion. And if you don’t stand up for your children, I assure you that you will regret it for the rest of your life.

2. You will have to pay her child support. Why should you have to do this when she is the one having the A?

3. You may have to pay alimony. Unnecessary if you can help it. I know these costs seem abstract to you right now, but they won’t be once you start having to pay them. Moreover, these are costs that will follow you for a very long time and make it hard for you to reach your financial goals in the future. Since your wife is the wrongdoer here, you should not have to pay for the consequences of her actions.

4. OM will start boinking your WW in your own home in your own bed shortly after you leave, while your children are in a nearby room. Is that what you really want? Are you ok with that?

I just don’t get the logic of your willingness to move out so soon or at all. If anything your WW, should move out…WITHOUT THE CHILDREN. Please enlighten me here. And no, I don’t believe Plan B is a good reason to move out when you have children, unless the court kicks you out. Let the court kick you out. Do not surrender without a fight.

You’ve been getting some good advice on here. I just wanted to present a different angle.

God Bless.

UVA, their plan was to MOVE away with the children to get away from the FIL and the Mother. His wife is screwing her own FIL. The advice is for him to go ahead with this plan, take the children and move away as planned. Of course she would be asked to come, but if she didn't come with him and his family, he could go into Plan B.

As it is now, his kids are being exposed to this sleazy affair while their mother carries on with thier own grandfather right in front of them, their father and grandmother. A profoundly evil, destructive situation. And to make matters much worse, her own mother advises her to do what makes her "happy."

My bad. My impression was that 1W was willing to leave his home and his children behind at the mercy of his WW. But if he was planning to leave with them, my points above do not apply. Thanks for pointing this out to me. Then in that case, your plan and his may be the correct one.

However, I would caution that he gets a separation agreement in place before he moves out, lest he subject himself to a claim of abandonment and get taken to the cleaners in divorce court. I suspect those considerations have also been discussed here so I will not belabor them.

Yes, I see his MIL’s posts and it is too bad she believes it is ok to be selective with her morals, i.e., making unwarranted moral exceptions when it comes to her own DD. So 1W should not rely on his MIL, at least for now, since she sure does not have his best interest in mind at the moment. (Although I do believe she cares for him at some level).

God Bless

Legally in our state, I can't kick her out without the kids. If I moved out, it would definitely be with a legal separation clearly defining custody (it would be joint custody, as again my lawyer said I wouldn't get full custody only because of the A in our state). So I do feel stuck a bit. The A has already been going on in both houses, and I wouldn't have to leave for it to escalate again (they have proven that well, as 3 PI encounters happened after my D-day, though I believe it has stopped or subsided since my mom knows).
I don't know if Plan B would make her feel much loss, since she actually has been wanting it for a long time. I suppose it depends on the OM a bit, whether he is "in or out".
Still holding to a good Plan A, though not much has come of it yet. Will evaluate in a few weeks again to see.

Can you try to have a restraining order against OM so he can't come and have sex with WW in your own home? I suspect you can do something like that. Likewise ask your Mom to have a RO against your WW so she does not get to your Mom's house and do the same.

You need to play hardball in your effort to make the A end. You can prevent OM from coming into your house. That is, of course, if you are willing to do what it takes.

Monday Report:
My mom filed for divorce last week, and she will try to stay in the house (buying his half). OM (STBXSF!) told his mom and 2 grown sons about the D, but didn't tell his mom about the A. My WW is hoping that he will openly declare his intentions toward her, but he has been so passive and weak that it is up in the air.
I am moving out/getting a separation in a couple weeks. She asked last night if we should just D and I said do what you want but I am not seeking that. She might be willing to just be separated for a while and D later when she is sure. We have agreed on joint cusody of the kids (as much as I can get in this state) and an equal division of our stuff. Effectively we will be divorced, just not legally and not in God's eyes. I am not holding out any hope for our recovery, but I don't want to trash my love for her either. But for my own sanity and dignity I am moving on, at least practically.
I believe in miracles, but now we will need 2 miracles: Her heart and mine. I am in agony, much more than she knows or cares. I have given everything into this marriage, this dream, and now it is dead. I know that both of us failed in the past, but with this A and their unwillingness to end it, she and he have killed our chances of healing and recovery. I have tried so hard (not always doing it right) and waited and hoped, but this is what she wants and I can't stop it.
I must go heal myself. I forgive both of them, even as they are still caught in their sin and unrepentant.
God only knows what will happen. I do not have much faith in Plan B, and Plan A has surely failed (for us, though not for my own growth). At the least I know I did my best.
I will probably update this post if anything new happens, but soon I will be on the Divorcing part of this forum.

Please be sure that you are protected legally in all of this. And whatever you do, do not move out before you have a ironclad separation agreement in place.

If I were you since you are not going into plan B, I would try to go straight to plan D. Your WW thinks that you are second best and is counting on you to wait on her while she tries out the OM. I would make it clear to her that you may not (probably should not) want her back after her escapade with OM falls through, as it inevitably will.

Your Mom did the right thing given the nature of the relationships involved. I hope you follow suit soon.

I won't D just yet, but I made it clear to WW that I will not hang on or wait for her to come back. I am moving on with my life, and there is so much life to be lived I will get to a better place. Eventually I will want closure and to be able (morally) to date and someday enter into another relationship, when I can learn to trust again and have healed.
I have many plans, both for my time with my kids and my time alone. I will survive this just fine, though it still sucks that she cares so little for our M.
Her loss, and I will turn this into gain for me, to become a better man and live my life to the full. She may yet realize before it's too late how big of a mistake she has made.

Being a FWS, I absolutely agree. But let's characterize it more accurately, shall we...

The marital conditions may inflict a wound...but the affair is pus-filled infection.

Now, tell me, do you cajole the spouse into stopping the wounds...or is the infection the more immediate threat?

She has to stop the A, MIL. It doesn't get more complex than that.

1W,

expose to OM's mother, and any others. Plan A may not have failed, it plants seeds my friend. They take time to grow.

Plan B is for your own well being, so go to that with some arrangement for you to contact and be with kids, but leave her out of your life.

As for OM and your W, let time and fate deal with that. I am sorry for your mother, but I hope that she can deal with this and heal.

Get the legal stuff done right. Make sure you have yourself protected, and then let time and patience do the rest. You will know the right time, and the right decisions if you are still and pay attention.

God Bless,

JL

1 Wounded,

I really feel for you. It truly is a very sick situation. Habiba sounds so much like my ex. Getting away from the "craziness" is very healthy for you. From the posts I have read, it sounds as if she wants to do her own thing and there is very little you can do for her.

She knows you love her - her choice is to trade the real for the artificial. Hand in there -

[quote]My WW is hoping that he will openly declare his intentions toward her, but he has been so passive and weak that it is up in the air. [quote]


The fact that he won't do this for your W speaks volumes.

I'm a FWW. When I met OM, I thought he was my soulmate. I wanted to shout it from the mountain tops that I had found "the one." I couldn't wait to tell everyone about my "true love."

OM was the opposite. He didn't want anyone to know. He said the A was "the most exciting thing he had ever done in his life." He said I was his soulmate too, but was "too weak" to do anything about it.

The truth is, OM was 15 years older than me and on his second marriage (he looked like he was at least 20 years older, however, due to hard living.) I look young for my age, and on several occassions people mistakenly thought we were father and daughter.

In my case, I was a new, young piece of !@#$ and the OM was absolutely intoxicated with the thrill and adventure of it all. I thought I was in a great storybook romance, but he thought he was in a porno (not literally, but you know what I mean.)

It sounds to me like your stepfather is swept up in the hedonism of it all, and does not want to make a real commitment to your W. This is the beginning of the end, but it will take your W quite a while to accept it, especially if she feels she has found "the one."

I'm so, so, sorry for your situation... many blessings to you and your children.

I always thought Plan B was my decision, but it feels like it is hers, that she is the one benefiting from this. I don't think she is "completely gone" but neither is she in even close enough to work on the M. She vaguely agrees that the A hinders our healing and recovery.
In a way, the OM has done everything right to keep the A going: He has enough interest and display of affection and works of service to meet her needs and show he is "in it" but he also keeps just enough distance to look like he gives a *@#$*! about us working on our M. He doesn't want to look like the bad guy destroying our M (though he certainly has helped to do that) because then he would feel guilty and the pleasure might be spoiled a bit. When we are done he will say, "Too bad, but that's life, and you both really tried" which will make both of them feel better about their relationship. They both know that the A is wrong, and she knows that our D would be wrong, but they rush headlong into in anyways, and say "We couldn't help ourselves!!" As if there are no choices in life and we are all mere animals acting on instinct and hormones, and there is no right or wrong.
My highest calling on earth is to be a good husband, and to that end I have worked to end the A and revive our M. But I have tried long enough, and for a while she and he will be glad that I am gone. Maybe always, but then maybe when the thrill wears off they will feel the guilt and shame of what they have done, what they have destroyed. But I cannot wait for that day.

1W...

Like JL asked...have you exposed to OM's mother and family?

What you wrote about OM's participation...don't rent any space to him in your mind...what his motives are or his actions. As long as OM and WW are in contact, the A continues. Period. No other truth needs to be known. No, Habiba isn't working on the marriage, trying anything...and if she doesn't stop contact, then her marriage ends in her affair. She ends the marriage by her choice.

OM is into fantasy...that's what he is addicted to...escaping reality, as is Habiba. Please don't go into their fantasy...stay in reality. Plan B is to end all contact except through a third party for the BETRAYED spouse, not the wayward, to save what is left of the BS' love and to leave the OM to fill all ENs for WW. So, your wife can't choose Plan B...she is attempting to push you out of the home so she can continue her A without interference, without your betrayed face and loving arms. Her guilt is at issue here, not her...and you staying in the house is key to standing by truth...no distortions...

I was thinking maybe your mother could move in...stay with you, do her Plan B to your stepdad...what do you think?

What WW and OM's feelings, thoughts or beliefs are right now is their own, not yours. Keep yourself in you...with God, with guidance and endless resource. Each time you go where you are not allowed, into others, then your life will be unbearable...

You know how God will not put on you anything more than you can bear? Yet, there are times you feel overwhelmed, can't bear anymore? Look to what YOU'RE taking from others in your mind and you'll see the overload...not God's doing, but ours.

...stay present...leave vengenance, guidance and their feelings alone...between them and God...and HE knows it.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

Thanks, LA. OM's family knows now -- he finally had the guts to tell them. Mixed reaction, but it's out there now.
I am leaving in a couple weeks. It's time for Plan B. She will like it at first maybe, but I also will enjoy my own space and time. I will make the best of it, and use the time to heal and grow, and plan a better future, whether in R or D.
Mom is heading for D, and I respect her choice. There was much less to work with in her M, due to both neglecting it for most of their 13 years. No Plan B for her.
When I leave, I hope to leave most of my thoughts of the A behind, and clear my mind for a new life.

I was thinking on the "direct vs indirect pain" thought. WW has said that she never meant to hurt me, and I do believe that the A wasn't about revenge or anything like that. But she and the OM did it with full knowledge that it would hurt many people they supposedly loved.
The picture I had in my head this morning was of someone backing out of a driveway to drive to the movies, and running over their spouse's foot in the process, and continuing to do it knowing it hurts them so much. The WS can say that their intention wasn't to hurt, but they knew the consequences and chose the action anyways. Indirect pain or direct pain? Any thoughts?
I mean it's one thing for a doctor to "hurt" someone in order to heal them in the end, like in giving them a shot. It's another thing for a spouse to have an A for their own pleasures and cause real pain in the process, hurting others so they can get pleasure. Anyone have a different thought or addition?

1w,
I agree totally with you. My WH has said the same thing about 100 times that he did not do this intentionally and gets angry with me when I do something that hurts him for he says it is intentional and I am intentionally trying to hurt him. Yet, regardless of the method the outcome is still the same......Pain.
I made the analogy to him that it is like a drunk driver who hits and kills a person, they didn't set out to kill someone, but the outcome is death.

It drives me crazy sometimes how much rationalization they use, but I guess they have to.

TAKENBYSURPRISE: You might oughta fix your signature line unless of course you're psychic and you had your D-Day knowing your husbands affair was going to start this coming October, 2006.

Mr. Wondering