Just got a call from H. He's on a business trip Jan 2-5. So we no longer have POJA on that.

I'm thinking of The Fear Book that Tama recommended. See if I can take two days off from work and go travel with him. Make it a family trip. Rest my mind. What do you think?

eo



Thought just occurred to me. I wonder if his unusual behavior could be related to a job interview? I recall you mentioning he's been on kind of a job "search".

I may be WAAAAY off base. It would make sense since his behavior was so temporary and he did say he was going to "work"....

Hope I don't add to your concerns by throwing this out there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />



I hope you're not feeling guilt or any other self derogatory emotions because of what he said. The reason I mention it is because you were already beating yourself up pretty good about this situation. My filter here, but I wanted to caution you to be aware of how his statement affected you.

I think you handled it great with how you responded. But I think you and I are a lot alike in that we tend to internalize things, without always realizing we're doing it.

I'm glad he's back to acting like himself.

Tama

I'd certainly try it and see if H likes the idea. Family trips are definitely fun...

eo


How about I bop your H and you bop mine? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> What is with these guys not keeping POJAs? If I knew the answer to that question.....yeah, well....hmmmmm




I think it sounds like a great idea.

I'm sorry, eo. I can't help but think its strange when you add his odd behavior, plus this POJA-breaking trip. BUT, it may just be my filter, again.

I still think it would be much better for you to go than sit home worrying and stressing. Who knows, it might turn into a really great bonding time for all of you.

((((eo)))))

Tama

Thanks, guys, for being here. I will talk to my supervisor today, to see if it would be possible,w hich I think it would. I wish LA were here, too, to get another perspective.

I fear that my H will be very angry if I suggest this, even if I explain that I'm trying to address my insecurity, not trying to control him.

I tihnk if the thing the other day was about an interview, he would tell me, because he knows that I would be THRILLED if he found permanent work down here.

If it was for an interview, he may not want to tell you in case it fails to materialize. I know my H would think that way; he thinks if he tells me something, that I just jump on it immediately, when he didn't want me to even dwell on it.

Can you suggest the trip in terms of 'it's the holidays, how about I go with you and we can do a little celebrating together, get in the spirit and all? Spontaneity would be fun'?

I agree with CP, what if you approach you and the kids going along, from a positive angle. I don't think he would be too enthusiastic if he felt you were just wanting to keep tabs on him.

I'm not saying that's what you're doing. Your fear is about you. I'm just saying he might take it as about him. KWIM?

I don't think I'm saying this right. That makes it sound like I think you should be dishonest or withhold information and that's not what I mean, at all.

I'll think about how to articulate what I mean.

SORRY!

Tama

Cat, you may be right about that. I like that part about being the holidays and all. I am glad that I've been going to the IC, I have some quiet breathing exercises I've been doing at my desk, so I'm not feeling panicked.

ETA:

Tama, I do get you. I think that there is honesty in that. The kids are off from school, so it would be a fun idea even if I didn't have insecurity issues.

I just sent the email to my supervisor to find out if it's possible, which I think it will be. We have frequent flyer miles we could use, and it would be really cool to possibly see snow in NC. I have my fingers crossed that this will go well!

Got the thumb's up for my manager, so i called H, very excited. He's not enthusiastic. I haven't called the airlines yet to verify that they'd have frequent flyer flights yet, because H is the one with the frequent flyer numbers, and he thinks it would be expensive to fly. I'll see what we can negotiate.

If we can't find a way to be enthusiastic, I'm not sure what to do next. The last trip, he agreed to call, but then didn't. When I called, he did have his phone on sometimes, but there was that time late at night with his single female coworker laughing in the background.

I'm really angry that I feel so nutty, and my thoughts are swirling like this. Part of me thinks like my Alanon sponsor, just let go and let God. And part of me thinks I should send a PI to follow him.

EO,

I'm here and you are NOT nutty. Anxiety "feels" like uncertainty pumping through your veins. Doesn't mean you're wrong, uncertain or nutty. Means there's fear abrewin'.

Reasonable, understandable fear.

My perspective is like what you've already been advised...to verify your desire for him to not be choosing actions of infidelity. Up to you to VERIFY he's telling you the truth. That's your half of the marriage...you looking out and honoring The Marriage.

Same for going with him on this trip...sans children, though, I'd advise. I think that's what is really missing and has been...you both playing together...being playful consistently, into a habit...so you know you're allies.

Takes a lot...because resentment gives us the experience of enemies...so time, consistency, knowing we're now coming from our own self-respect...you've got all the pieces.

Take the time. Use the time.

I wouldn't spend another moment guessing his stuff...and I'm not condemning anyone else here for helping widen your perceptions with possibilities...I just believe that in the years pre-MB, you were a guessing master...had a deep habit of it, and over the last two years, you've been weaning yourself off of it.

I hate for you to get a deep hit of it and go back. For me, it was an addiction...my alcohol, my drug...and the resentment from it was like being drunk or stoned...kept me from clarity, ownership and high awareness.

Which is where I've been seeing you dwell for a long time.

Let clarity, ownership, high awareness be your drug. May your fear be signalling how brave you are...how right on you already are...and circulating not in your veins, but pulsing around your boundaries which you kinda might be crossing, thinking about crossing, dodging or ignoring.

((((EO))))

LA

Sans children, huh... clarifies that I want them around to lean on. To keep me busy, thoughts from wandering. Clarifies my assumption that he wouldn't want to take me somewhere without the kids. I will bring that idea up when we talk, too. Would mitigate the airfare we'd pay, one person instead of three. And my friend who I trust to leave them overnight with would be off from school with them, because she's a teacher.

A guessing master, yep, that's what it took to pretend I was safe with FOO. It helps me feel more protected in this case, too. I see where I can choose to replace that with fact-finding, like jayne suggested.

Checking, I've always been resistant to. I'm trying to get clarity on why. A mixture of being afraid to be found out, and afraid of finding more data that doesn't correlate with what I know. One time, though, I think a year or so ago, I did some checking, and didn't find anything, and that did alleviate my fears.

Thanks for your presence. (((LA)))

Hi ears_open,
I've been following your posts for a while, as my relationship has some similarities to yours. Your thread is very inspiring to me. Thank you for sharing.

I know you have had suspicions of infidelity (which could also just be independent behavior). How do you decide to share these fears with your husband, or which ones to share? Do you ever feel that in doing so, you could be warning him (if it is infidelity) so he can better hide those behaviors that get your radar up?

I would verify what you can yourself at least. I also like the PI idea if you don't end up going on the trip with him.

Good luck with the POJA on the trip.

Thanks Cool Breeze. I am so grateful to you all for bringing different perspectives.

I guess that my willingness to share my fears with my H is because the lying by omission is the part that is so unbearably crazymaking to me. He's had enough of that in his life before he met me.

My hope is that he'd understand that anyone would feel insecure under these conditions, and work with me to set things up where I'd feel safer. Like finding a job that doesn't require travel. Or call me from the office phone instead of the cell phone so that i'd know that he is where he says he is. Or ask me to bring him supper when he works late. Lots of things we used to do automatically that have gotten replaced by other habits over time.

The "anyone would feel" is a DJ kind of speak. What I mean to say is that I would like him to understand that I feel this way, and to brainstorm how to make these things easier.

Hi ears,

I started to post the following, but I guess I forgot to hit "submit". By the time I noticed, LA had posted. I'm not sure if this is the same as what she said. I value her advice more than my own (lol) but I thought I'd let you see what I almost posted, just in case it speaks to you.

******************************************************************

{{{{{ e_o }}}}}

I don't know if this is the best advice, but the phrase that comes to mind for me is "Trust but Verify." Especially if it's making you crazy wondering.

Thanks, jayne. I'm know it's time to step up to this plate again. Thanks so much for your support today.

I have wondered when I was H&O about my concerns if it would encourage him to hide deeper. I think in general, though, by following the MB program, even the sharing my worries, I'm doing the best thing I can to affair-proof my marriage.

Yes, by following the principles you have established for yourself (and good principles they are!) you are doing the best you can do for your marriage... and you are being true to yourself.

No matter what happens, that's a great thing to do.

It sure would be cool if you guys could have some *fun* time together, like on this trip.

EO, I think you're approaching this latest development exactly as you should. You're thinking through all your options and presenting the best ones as they come up to your H. You're respectfully and thoughtfully trying to affair-proof and improve your M.

The thing that strikes me about your approach is that you're truly stepping back and thinking before you act. That is often my biggest downfall - I act on my fears or concerns before I have all my thoughts straight and then I don't present my H&O in a respectful or "hearable" way.

What are your thoughts today? Did you take any action last night or are you waiting to get more clarity?

"The thing that strikes me about your approach is that you're truly stepping back and thinking before you act."

Thanks, KLD, I needed to hear that. That does help me, to look at the things going right, too. better_than_ever was the one who told me, "Respond, Don't React"

H asked me this morning why I want to go up, is this about my jealousy. I don't know if jealousy is the word for it, I've been thinking of it as an insecurity, as in I don't feel like the marriage is protected. I reminded him about some Midwest friends we have, where they travel together when he has to go for work, and reiterated how I always had wanted to do that. And how now i have a job that gives me the flexibility to do that.

This has been a BIG lesson in responsibility for me. I rely on H to handle lots of details, like frequent flyer miles, and doing the bills. By simply stepping up to the plate taking on the jobs, I would be more informed instead of sticking my head in the sand.

I am a little frustrated with myself. I am forgiving, but at the same time, I feel like I've had these signs in front of me for a long time now, yet have hesitated to act. I am going to discuss this with my IC tonight. I think this may be directly related to my weight management issues, how I lose very slowly because though I do very well with the exercise, I still all too often am making poor food choices. I want to understand how to get out of this pattern of being able to make significant progress in some areas but negligible progressin others. Maybe that's where accountability to an IC would make a difference.

I don't know if we're going to get to a POJA on this trip. H says it's "too expensive," but if I had a handle on the finances, I could do a quick Stella-style spreadsheet and show how I plan to pay for it. In the past, we've traveled with him, including our trip out to SoCal this summer, because hotel, and his airfare are paid for, and he gets an allowance for meals. I can set myself up to better POJA better next time.

I don't know why, but my radar has gone down. I know I can handle this.

That makes so much sense when you say it. I hope to get there myself someday.

I'm not looking for sympathy, because i'm fine. But I'm confused trying to clarify my boundary here.

My H was trying to clarify the day with me, and the converstaion was too fast for me, and I kept trying to slow it down. I'm trying to fit in seeing everyone before we leave for the holidays, but my H is sick of my family, who make plans and then don't show up.

He took the phone off of the wall and threw it because he was mad. I didn't feel scared, because he didn't throw it towards me. Then he left to go run errands. The kids didn't see it, they were in the other room watching TV, and I don't think that they heard, because they didn't ask. Now the phone is broken. I feel calm, but I don't know if I'm underreacting and there's something that I should be doing, like develop a plan of what we do when we're mad or something.