I recently found out that my husband of 16 years has been having lunch with the same single woman for the past 5 years. They met whilst working together on a project for two companies, she worked for one company, my husband worked for the other. They had regular business meetings involving a team of people. They started meeting away from work for lunch, always at the same restaurant, always just the two of them. They met usually once a month until my husband retired, then they started meeting for lunch more often, weekly,fortnightly or whenever was convenient. They spoke by email and phone weekly. They bought each other Birthday and Christmas presents, and at least one of his presents to her was sending flowers to her office. He has never once sent flowers to me. He either hid her gifts or lied to me about them. He kept music cd's she had given him in his car, he told me these were just a gift from one business collegue to another. He kept some expensive artwork from her in a shopping bag in his personal storage area and said he was not hiding it, it was in full view because the bag was not sealed. He says he cannot remember most of the gifts he gave to her or received from her.
My husband never told me he was seeing this woman or that he was buying her gifts. He tells me ther is something wrong with me for being hurt and upset because he lied to me and kept his friendship with this woman a secret and that if I don't feel secure that is my problem not his.
My husband tells me ther is nothing wrong with secretly meeting a friend for lunch and that I have a sick mind to infer otherwise. He keeeps saying there was nothing wrong because it was just lunch and perfectly innocent that two friends would never invite anyone else along to join them.
My husband says he loves me and that his woman has never been a threat to our marriage. He has ceased all contact with her.
My husband took me to have lunch with her at their usual restaurant. My husband left the table for a short time, whilst he was gone, she said they never talked about me and continually used the word we when she spoke about my husband and her, she was quite ****** in her conversation with me but when my husband came back to the table she was all smiles. She wasn't too interested in me during the lunch, her conversation was about how great she is, poor me things she has to put up with and in between sentences flattering my husband. I told my husband afterwards about her nastiness, he said he couldn't believe it, she is not like that.
He has other women friends who are not secrets and are friendly to me. What do you think ?

A few things...this was at least an emotional affair and at most a physical affair. This can't be swept under the rug. I would start reading all you can on the main page of this website. WAT quickstart guidelines on this section of the message board would be good too. You'll also get a lot more posters reading and advising on the Infidelity General Questions II so I would copy and move post there.

What he did was wrong, no matter what he says. There is no room for secrets lik that within a marriage. Don't let him convince you of that. It sounds like he is in what they call the wayward spouse fog.

Its all WS babble, my WH hubby did that for years with his female friend only to find out he was in love with her.Took me years to find all this out.They will denie denie denie, make you feel your crazy.

Talor, I don't DO Dr. Phil, but he's had a couple of moments. One was when he defined cheating by saying, "If you wouldn't do it in front of your spouse, it's cheating." Since your husband kept this secret, since he wouldn't invite you along on these meetings, it is most emphatically cheating.

You don’t say, Talor, but how did you find out about this thing going on between the two of them?

Regardless, he's at least having an emotional affair and let's be clear about this. An affair is adultery, period. You say he has cut off all contact with her. How do you know he actually has? Adulterers lie. They will look you in the eye and swear up is down if it will help conceal the adultery. They get very, very good at it. Again, how do you know they've cut off contact? Because he told you?

Your husband is using a technique known as gaslighting to deflect your questions and "prove" to you that you are insane to think he might be doing something inappropriate. This is a common form of brainwashing in which an abuser tries to falsely convince the victim that the victim is defective, for any purpose whatsoever, such as making the victim more pliable and easily controlled, or making the victim more emotional and therefore more needy and dependent. If you think you’re crazy, you’re not going to believe your own eyes when you see he’s committing adultery. That’s the goal.

No, to answer your question, you're not crazy for thinking your husband is doing something wrong.

I think you need to conduct a military-style intelligence operation to find out if your husband is still involved with this other woman. Examine his cell phone records for phone numbers that show up too often, and/or too lengthy. Does he spend in inordinate amount of time online, using IM or email? Are there times when he goes to the convenience store, and doesn't come home for a long period? Are there unexplained absences? Can he account for every dollar he spends? Is he completely transparent about his daily routine and schedule? These things, and many others, if answered negatively, may indicate an ongoing adulterous relationship.

Here is a link to a thread describing various techniques for conducting intelligence operations:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rt=all&vc=1

I sincerely hope your husband has actually ceased all contact with this woman and he won’t ever start that relationship back up. But, my experience and the experience of most out here on MB, tells me he was and may well still be engaged in an adulterous relationship. Hang in there, Talor. MB is here to support you.

welcome to MB

sorry you need to be here

I recently found out that my husband of 16 years has been having lunch with the same single woman for the past 5 years.

SINGE WOMAN

not good

They met whilst working together on a project for two companies, she worked for one company, my husband worked for the other. They had regular business meetings involving a team of people. They started meeting away from work for lunch, always at the same restaurant, always just the two of them. They met usually once a month until my husband retired, then they started meeting for lunch more often, weekly,fortnightly or whenever was convenient.

and always kept a secret from you ...

smell anything fishy??

I sure do!

They spoke by email and phone weekly. They bought each other Birthday and Christmas presents, and at least one of his presents to her was sending flowers to her office. He has never once sent flowers to me. He either hid her gifts or lied to me about them.

because he KNEW he was doing something that was not appropriate

He kept music cd's she had given him in his car, he told me these were just a gift from one business collegue to another. He kept some expensive artwork from her in a shopping bag in his personal storage area and said he was not hiding it, it was in full view because the bag was not sealed.

he's a smooth liar

He says he cannot remember most of the gifts he gave to her or received from her.

that's crap

don't swallow it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />


My husband never told me he was seeing this woman or that he was buying her gifts.

Of course not

he knew it was wrong

He tells me ther is something wrong with me for being hurt and upset because he lied to me and kept his friendship with this woman a secret and that if I don't feel secure that is my problem not his.

we are supposed to PROTECT our spouses from harm

he is clearly failing you here

he is blaming YOU, his victim for having the audacity to be hurt when he was caught sneaking around !!!

*sarcasm button on* <~~~ SHAME ON YOU FOR YOUR HURT


My husband tells me ther is nothing wrong with secretly meeting a friend for lunch and that I have a sick mind to infer otherwise.

a very smooth liar

do not swallow crap



He keeeps saying there was nothing wrong because it was just lunch and perfectly innocent that two friends would never invite anyone else along to join them.
My husband says he loves me and that his woman has never been a threat to our marriage.

he's sneaking and that is harmful all by it's self

He has ceased all contact with her.

sez who?


What do you think ?

I think you need to seek out a counselor. YOU go alone for awhile. then go as a couple.

The very BEST for this sort of situation is the Harleys... Are you in the USA?

How did you make the discovery?

AND ... HOW do you know OW is NOT married? Is your H the sole source of you thinking she is not married? Hire a PI ... get all her info ... she may very well be married. If she is, contact her husband.

Read Surviving An Affair

Best of luck

Pep

Oh, yeah, Longhorn, Gaslighting. Talor, rent the DVD and watch it. It will do more for you than a year of therapy (But still, do go to individual counseling). Also, check out Mulan's post on the gaslighting subject.

Went through this bullsh*t myself. Don't let him make you doubt your sanity.

Yes, of course Longhorn & Pepperband are 100% on target - your H has made the marital boundaries much looser than they should be for the safety of the marriage - why his OW is trying to get him out of his mess by implying/telling you they aren't having an affair is beyond me - guess she wants to keep things the way they are, I guess she doesn't want to rock the boat. She doesn't want her H to find out. A private investigator or some stealthy investigative tactics will provide you with the answers you need; read everything here and prepare for a bumpy ride - you CAN get thru this but it's a roller coaster.

Do you have a good support network of friends, family, a counselor and/or pastor?

MSA

He is a liar and in denial about what this relationship means to him. All the hiding, the lies, the denials, her use of "we" imply much more than a "friendship" Ridiculous! You KNOW in your heart that this is NOT ok. Read Surviving an Affair and NOT Just Friends by Shirley Glass. Get educated on affairs, get help and support. Find out about continuing contact--I will bet anything they are still in contact, just deeper in hiding. Expose to anyone that is important in their lives that would cause them to see their actions through others' eyes, the eyes of truth. She may not be married, but she might have parents around or a church community with a pastor you could speak to. Prepare yourself for a long and difficult journey here--when a WS doesn't come clean and keeps going with their A after discovery it makes things a whole lot more difficult and you have to have to fortitude and dedication to fight the good fight.

Hang in there!

Do not believe him. He is lying. Trust yourself.