My story, readers digest version.
My husband and I are both 36, married 15 years with two children 15 and 13 boy and girl. There have been "minor" infidelity problems in our marriage for years before things got REALLY bad. Me finding emails of him flirting with girls, or letters from girls that he had mailed to his parents house. Finally in 2001 he met a girl and started an emotional affair with her. I found out. They eventually broke it off. Over the next few years, he has continued to lie and meet girls. I always catch him. Finally he met and girl and had sex with her. This was in 2004. We had 2 or 3 sessions with Steve Harley, and went to Retrouvaille. I had also had telephone counsultations with people from Divorce Busters. Since 2004, I have found girls telephone numbers and he said he was just making friends. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> He called all the girls with me there and said he would not be calling them anymore because he was married.
A few days ago I found a womans number and address in his wallet. I did not tell him I found it, but he can tell by my attitude that he is caught once again. I can tell by his attitude that my suspicions are correct, once again.
I don't know what to do anymore... I think my only option is divorce. But I am so scared to do it. I want it, but I am afraid to take the leap. I just need help and support in making this decision. I know it is the right one, because he is never going to change. But I just can't take that step. Please help with any advice.

No advice, but a question.

What would be the last straw?

You have put up with a lot. More than many would. From reading your post, you are wondering if it will ever end. So far, it hasn't, and though you want to see a future with him, you are having a hard time with it.

So, what would make your decision for you? What has to happen for you to say ENOUGH?

SS

PS,
One more question along the same lines, and this one first came from Peperband.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

That's the thing... I believe the camels back has already been broken, the final straw has been reached, the end of the rope is here. Now I am just dealing with my own fears of making a change. I know it is long past due and that this marriage is not going to work. But I am scared.
If I were not afraid, I would call a lawyer today... but I am.

Tallk about your fears - it may help.

SS

Call the lawyer today and go in for a 'free' consultation - these are usually offered.

Just learn what's involved and what your choices are. Ask about "proving" adultery. Cover all the bases from splitting assets to child custody.

This knowledge may tip you one way or the other. It will either lessen or heighten your fear. Makes sense to know in advance what you're getting in to if you choose to, huh?

Ditto to what WAT said.

I was also married to a serial cheater and had small children. I was also scared... change that to terrified. I was terrifed of being on my own, the changes that would come with being divorced, what it would mean for my children. Heck, I was afraid of being afraid.

No one here is going to be able to give you the magic key to be able to make a final decision, whether it be to stay or to divorce.

My only suggestion would be to look at yourself and your worth. Your fear can be overcome but only when you are ready to stop it.

This is going to seem a bit dorky but I was helping my 5th grader with her homework last night and we were reading the Declaration of Independance. This hit me as being so true and relevant to our own human nature:



FIM

I was terrified too! We all are. Afraid that you will break down and cry in front of the lawyer, afraid to hear yourself say "I am divorced" afraid that you may be making the wrong decision.

Do get an appointment with a lawyer, ASAP. It does help to go in, sit down, and ask all the questions you are afraid to ask.
I started by calling a friend to get a recommendation. Then I called the lawyers office to make an appointment. This particular one did not offer a free consultation; I was told that it would cost $180 for the first visit. I decided to pay it. I was too terrified to call anyone else to see if I cold get a free hour!

Then I asked a friend to go with me. She went along, and just sat in the office for me.

Afterwards, I realized it was not as scary as I thought it would be. The lawyers know we are all nervous at first. They will ask a lot of questions and get the conversation started.

I remember at the end of my first hour, I was crying, and the lawyer looked at me and said, "This is not the end of your life. This is just the beginning of a new chapter for you. You are a bright, intelligent, friendly person. You will be just fine.

Here I am, 3 years later, newly married to a wonderful man who loves me, respects me, and treats me like I am the best thing that ever happened to him. he truly wants to spend time with me - not with every other female who crosses his path.

Remember when you go in for that first appointment - it does not mean that you are filing that day, or that the lawyer will try to talk you into doing anything you are not ready for. That first appointment is just your chance to ask questions, and get the facts. all of your friends and family will be ready to give advice too - but you need to talk to a professional first. someone who truly has the facts.

God bless you on this very difficult part of your journey.

Thank you.. I appreciate all the responses...

My fears:
1. My children are at the age when they are angry all the time anyway.. arguing with me all the time. I wonder how hellish it will be if I am the one that disrupts their lives? How hard is it going to be dealing with their pain and mine?
2. How will I find an apt that is big enough for the three of us? We each need a bed room, or at the very least, THEY each need one. I can sleep in the living room. But how can I afford that in Southern CA?
3. Will I have to move in with my mother? We would kill eachother within 6 months.
4. Will my husband continue to play the "nice" parent to my kids and make them resent me more? It was like that for me as a child. Going to vist my dad was play time, coming home to mom was a drag. But now that I am an adult I see that SHE was the one really doing all the work.
5. My husband has already made it clear in the past that he does not want to pay alimony. He will fight this..
6. What will holidays be like?
7. I don't really have any friends.. now I will be alone
8. He will find a girlfriend and try to rub my nose in it.
9. He will try to sabatogage me if I have a boyfriend
10. I will have to start working full time and I hate my job.
11. What if the kids have to change schools?
12. Will the kids be teased?

I have more fears.. just trying to get them sorted out.
Looking at them listed they seem kind of silly.. but it is almost like a phobia.
The claustrophobic person that is afraid to go out. They know that there is nothing that there is nothing that will really hurt them but outside is this huge scary vortex waiting to suck them in, if they are crazy enough to open the door.

Don't discount your feelings. They are important. Maybe the worst case won't happen, probably not, but the emotional impact is still there inside you.

This is a process. You find a way to work through it. Writing it down is a start.

Reading how others here did it will help also.

Then you talk to your support group (both here, and at home) and you work through each one.


Believe in yourself. Believe you can make it. Believe you can be happy.

Have hope, and know that things work out.

Now, tell me if you would be relieved to be away from his drama? What would that be worth?

SS

None of these are silly. I stay married for the same "silly" fears you have. My kids are also teens and I would definitely be thrust into the bad guy role. My husband is a geniuinely nice guy, but he's been the playmate and I've been the disciplinarian. I'm scared to death that my girls would want to live with their dad for that reason alone. He never makes them clean their room or unload the dishwasher!

I'm just trying to stick it out for a few more years, taking it day-by-day. I've stuck it out this long. I've got one graduating next week. 1 down and 2 to go!

How miserable would you truly be if you waited 5 more years? I know it seems like a lifetime and you see some of the best years of your life ebbing away, but could you do it? Think of the 5 years as a grace period to get your life in order. Find a full-time job that you do like, get yourself on a solid foundation so that your new life will be acceptable to you on your terms. Your kids will thank you later for having the strength to stick it out. They're lives will be upended financially, in addition to the emotional upheaval, if you do this haphazardly.

Also, take the time to get yourself physically fit if you're not already. That way when you do launch your new solo life, you'll be one hot mamma and have the self-confidence to slay dragons!

You already know that he's not going to change, so resolve to protect your future by taking the time to properly position yourself.

If you're still having SF with him, I pray you are protecting yourself.

I have wondered if I can white knuckle it for 5 more years.... I wonder..

Faithinme, I have been reading your threads.. your husband sounds so much like mine. You two even started dating at the same age that we did (16)
When you finally made your decision to go, how did it happen? What went through you mind?

And anyone else that took that leap... what made you finally do it?

If u r in CA, then you should have already been informed by your legal counsel that CA is a community property state. A's don't count. The one who makes the most $$ pays the most alimony. Not his option NOT to give alimony if he is the primary breadwinner. If you are, then you c/b subject to alimony but he would have to file for it. Even though each spouse has an even chance, getting a WSH to file in court for alimony tends to make the WSH look like a panty. LOL!!!

As for your kids being ostracized or made fun of.....there's too many children in the same sitch for that t/b an issue. Instead you may find the schools with programs to help children through counseling. Exposure can include the teachers and day care providers.

Secure your finances. Very important. You don't have to tell all to your supporters. Just enough so they cvan help you. As for your childen, honesty is important. Don't fool yourself into thinking they don't know. Let them be part of your support group and you be part of their's. Reassure them of your love and that you will NOT abandon them. Kids are smart. But you knew that right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.

As far as alimony, he makes more than me, so I would ask for it, I had just heard rumors that it is not granted as easily as it used to be. And I have a feeling he would fight not to pay it if possible and make things more difficult.
He gives me the impression that he will make the ENTIRE process difficult. He likes to throw that community property thing in my face as a "joke" a lot.
95% of the furniture and appliances in this house were purchased for us by my mother or grandmother. If we ever separated he has said he wants half of it. Even the bedroom set! What in the world would I do with 1/2 a bedroom set?
And considering that the kids would most likely be with me, why would he want to take half of the things we need in this house just to be spiteful? (I know I am sounding whiny and petty right now, but these are the things I imagine dealing with if I go through with this...)

As for us right now, we are barely speaking. Just a few words in the morning, a couple at night, since I found that telephone number.

Tired-I think you've done an amazing job of listing out your fears. Many of us stay, and bury our head in the sand, but can't really come up with good reasons. It sounds like all of your fears are legitimate. I'll bet your children WILL resent you. I'll bet your H WILL make your life a living he11. The holidays WILL suck. You WILL go crazy if you move in with your mom.


Sigh.


I really can empathize with you. Which is worse? Staying when the WS is unrepentant, or breaking up a disfunctional family? I hope some of the *experts* on this site can help you. I'll keep you in my thoughts, and hope for the best possible outcome, whatever that turns out to be.

Thanks so much for the reply Imanotherone. I think that in the long run staying in this situation will be worse for everyone involved. The lack of respect has run throughout the entire family. I was talking with a friend and she was pointing out that the problems I am having with the kids (disrespect, anger, etc) is probably stemming from the disrespect that I allow him to lay upon me. They resent my weakness..

I can't say what the exact moment was. It was a series of events I guess that hurt not only me but my children.

The whole dang situation hurt the kids, don't get me wrong. The affair weaved itself into every aspect my life, my childrens lives, our community and friends. So in the end it wasn't even the hurt he was causing them, it was ultimately the realization that it wasn't ever going to end. It was looking into their hopeful faces when he made promises he knew he wasn't going to keep even as he told them. It was holding them while tears fell down their cheeks when daddy didn't come home when he said he would and knowing this wouldn't be the last time I did it.

I really can not say it was overcoming any of my fears that did it. It was facing a larger fear that my daughters would think this was the way they could allow themselves to be treated or that my son would see his father as a role model to how a man should treat his family. The only thing that scared me more than failing as a wife and being divorced was failing as a mother and seeing my own situation replaying itself in their lives one day.

If I held out any hope that things would have eventually changed, I would have still kept trying. All of the fears you listed, I felt too. I would have kept trying because of those fears but also because it would have been the right thing to do. After almost 11 years of marriage and at least 11 affairs though it was time to open my eyes and face the reality that he was never going to be faithful. Even if we worked through this particular affair there would be another one down the road.

It has been hard on the kids. It is painful and they have been resentful at times. It wasn't painless being in that family though either. They saw what was going on. They could feel the division between us. They were no less innocent bystanders in the war of infidelity than they were in the war of divorce. Would they have been less resentful had we stayed married and replayed the affair wars over and over in front of them? I'll never know for sure but I don't think so.

Divorce hasn't rid my life of him because we do have three children together. He is a pain the [censored] to deal with and that may not ever change. I no longer have the everyday stress though of wondering what he might be doing. I never feel the need to search through my current husbands wallet or snoop on his computer. I don't watch for the cell phone bill so I can look through it before he gets to it. I no longer go around looking for and anticipating the blow of finding out my husband betrayed me once again. I went 7 years believing my XH wasn't cheating on me (I later found out I had been wrong BTW) and yet I STILL did and felt all of those things.

Those unsettling feelings took a toll on my children and my family. I knew the next affair was around the corner and thought if I only kept vigilant maybe I could keep it away. Wrong. I kept my children, family and myself in that cycle hoping that it would break. I couldn't make him stop cheating though. All I could do in the end was remove us from his cheating. It's been hard but worth it.

Those were and have been my thoughts and feelings. Everyone has to make their own decisions though. I did make the mistake of not using a lawyer in my divorce and paid for it dearly in terms of a costly and emotional custody battle when I remarried.

I agree with the others that you should sit down with a lawyer and find out exactly what you are up against and what your options are. It doesn't mean that you are filing for divorce. It simply gives you all the facts so you can make an informed decision.

Divorce is not a decision that should ever be made lightly IMO. It hurts everyone it touches. Unfortunatly, sometimes it's the best of a bunch of bad options. That's what you have to figure out.

FIM

Thank you....
Whenever I weigh the pros and cons, almost anything beats out digging through wallets and trashcans, taping telephone calls, searching the house and attic, backyard, pockets, credit reports, underwear, drawers and shoes, last number dialed on the telephone, and on and on.

I think I will make an appt... just to see...my heart is pounding at the thought though and I am breaking out in a cold sweat.

Right now we are not speaking much..he is trying to appease me, do things around the house that I have been complaining about, renting movies for me, not criticising me or picking a fight. But it's a dance.
He just bides his time till I calm down. Because it is hard to stay in that state of mind for very long..
Then he willl go back to what he does. Just trying to be more careful. But he can never be careful for long. 6 months from now, maybe sooner, the next clue will be found that lets me know nothing has changed and never will.
I always get this ugly feeling in the pit of my stomach that lets me know, "it's time to search again" when I get that feeling I usually find something within a week to a month of poking around, checking things, watching...
This is no way to live.

Faith

Real quick I am not a lawyer but I live in so cal.

Alimony is not hard to get. You are usually entitled to one of two things. 1/2 of the duration of your marriage if you marriage is less then 10 years. After ten years it can be awarded to you forever. It is based off of your past his salary and your salary. He can fight it all he wants but it will cost him more to fight then to pay. Pretty cookie cutter.

Child support in your case can be very substantial. Google child support calculators for california. You punch in what you make what he makes and the custody arrangement and boom it gives you a general number. The courts actually use this software. For me lets say if I get 50-50 custody of my children I still pay FWW about 400 per month. If her custody were 60 I would pay about 900 per month.

Joint property is the case in California but they are not going to give him 1/2 of the bedroom set. It would be asset for asset. IE if bedroom set cost 1,000 he gets something worth 1,000. Document how much money he has spent on the A's he had they may count that against some of the community property. For example if he has spent $3,000 on hotels and gifts you may be entitled to that in community property.

There are plenty of attorneys here that give free or low cost consultations. I actually went to two different ones to verify what the first one told me. Both free.

The A does not matter in your D we are in a no fault state. He could do anything he wants and it is no ones fault. However in child custody it may be used in certain situations. Most importantly were the children ever exposed or embarassed by the situation.

As far as the kids being teased come on girl we live in california they get teased if their parents aren't divorced.

As far as friends find a parents group. When my mom and dad got divorced my mom joined PWP parents without partners. She actually met my step dad there.

Kids are kids they are going to hate us anyway. LOL my 10 year old is like that.

You are not the one tearing apart your family your WS is. He might be to chicken shlt to make it permanant but why would he when he thinks you are trapped.

I don't advocate talking bad about the ex but if the kids are old enough there is nothing wrong IMO to tell them that dad has girlfriends and that is not what marriage is about.

If you have boys they probably know what is going on and same with girls. Boys will think it is ok to act like dad and girls will think the way dad acts is normal. Is that what you want your kids to think?

If this is rambling I am sorry in a rush.

I know the feeling and I am so sorry you are in that place.

One question though - Does he know and/or really understand where you are right now? You said you two haven't really talked about it yet. Is he aware you are at the point of actually going to a lawyer?

FIM