LA,
Here goes, last contact...
"As far as I am concerned, we're not married, so I am not having an affair."
"So you are saying that you choose to think that we are not married in order to justify your affair, is that correct?"
"No, its the other way around."

We were discussing Ty visiting, and since he has no desire to see her without my presence, I suggested that we get together.
"You need to stop forcing yourself on me."
"You are right, I need to stop trying to fix this for you, the choice to have an affair was yours alone and so are the consequenses with Tyler."
"He would be living with me if he was aware of half of the **** you pulled."
"You have my permission to attempt to undermine my credibility with him."

I then proceeded to tell her that the infidelity that she suspected before Tyler was born did take place and that I was sorry for breaking her trust in me.
"So it was OK for you to **** all of those girls when you were playing (I was a professional musician), but its not OK for me to leave you to have a happy, meaningful relationship?"
"Neither situation is OK."
"How many women were there?"
"Several."
"Don't call me this weekend I'll be very busy."
"I won't, we will be busy as well."
"Doing what? Where will you be?"
"Guy stuff, will be here if you need."
"Well don't call me!"

I know that finally being honest was the right thing to do, but I feel like crap inside.
Mean no disrespect to anyone LA, doing the best I can. Discussed my mistakes with Ty, we talked about immoral and disrespectful behavior being wrong, no matter what the reason behind it is. Thank you LA.


JMT

LA
I am FREAKING out, I feel that I have just dashed any hopes of reconciliation. Could being honest possibly help my situation, if so, how? I can almost hear her saying, "You deserve all of this for cheating on me!"
Now what?
JMT

LA,
WW called first thing this morning... just small talk, nice conversation, Ty didn't want to talk to her, and I didn't make him. Have been looking at the way you have helped others here, THANK YOU for helping me and ty, from the bottom of our hearts!

JMT

Hi, I know you feel bad right now, but you have done the right thing. There is nothing worse that old trouble coming out when things are beginning to go well - it is a huge LB. So your honesty now, has diffused a much worse episode later.

I had 42 months of finding things out - so many false recoveries and I believed every word WS said. You do not need this to happen - you are getting great advice, it is hard to do the right thing, you will see results eventually in your own self respect and that will help you get through things.

SP

JMT,

You can freak out...know that feeling, and not act from it. That freak out is fear and you did something very important...you balanced yourself.

You were ripped up by WW's behavior, and you had hid your own. It was from withholding that info from her which was part of the pre-A problem...we think don't ask, don't tell works...it is a termite in our structure...eating inward and outward.

Which is your goal...to recover your marriage or to rebuild a balanced, respectful one with your FWW (when she is)...?

If you want the latter, then you have to risk her being so wounded and using your past behavior as justification (on top of all the suspicions in her head) to continue her A.

See how long the consequences of infidelity reach? And yeah, owning your own stuff, even years past, is what you want to do so you know who you are, what you chose, and why you chose it...and I'm with silverpool, ask WW if she wants to ask her questions all at once, which you'll truthfully answer, or if she wants to ask them over time...that you're concerned, remorseful and want an honest marriage.

Which, I believe, you are...so was I, when I understood how much this pain sliced me in half...to have done that to my H...whoa...that and finding out I chose...my choice...so I no longer am a serial cheater.

Changes your life, JMT...and yes, you're doing well being honest with Ty...Remember, though, you're his hero...you have superpowers...he isn't going to get (and this isn't his fault nor yours) all the impact of it for years and years...ownership goes a long way...and you're doing great...just something to mentally munch on.

I've been offline with a downed home computer...and then the website decided for half today (from work) to buck and halt...

God's helping me break my addiction.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

In my thoughts and prayers,

LA

LA/pool,
The worst case scenario here is that I lose a wife but regain myself. There is power in knowing that you cannot change a WS, and the time and emotion is much better spent on yourself! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> It feels great knowing that I will be better equipped to handle whatever He has in store... I keep repeating,"Thy will be done, Father!," having faith that the best is yet to come! Thank you for your continued thoughts, prayers, and guidance.

JMT

Worst case scenario is that you have to accept God,s will - as you are doing now - whatever comes of this, it is exactly what you need to travel through in order to become the person God had in mind when you were conceived.

SP <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

LA/SP,
WW is definitely using truth to justify A. She said that the last 18 years have been a lie.
"Yes, and the first one was me having anything to do with you until you were divorced."

She was married when I met her, and just like this situation, told me/others that he was abusive, controlling, unfaithful, etc... I really think that my chances are slim for reconciliation considering the pattern, but I'm not nearly ready to throw in the towel. The big differences are that H#1 was glad to be rid of her and they had no children. Married three years. Guess I should have told you guys that from the beginning.

Called today to pressure me into bringing Ty down, said I needed to, "step up and do the right thing..." but I reaffirmed the boundaries that I put in place to protect myself and Ty.
"When OM is gone we will gladly come down."
"That will not happen and I will spend time with Ty no matter what it takes. It is not fair that you are keeping him from me."
"You are saying that you feel it is unfair that your affair has divided our family, is that correct?"

Dial tone... Did I LB or is this frustration with the situation that her choice has created? She keeps on telling me that she's happy but doesn't sound or act like it... Very angry and disrespectful, it is making it very easy for me to be an example because I no longer have a desire to act like that. It fills me with pride when I don't let myself get drawn into the turmoil... Next?


JMT

Good reply - just keep going and present her words back to her - you are getting the hang of it.

Well marriages born of affairs have a very low chance of survival, but that doesn't mean you cannot build yours into a good one. She is getting angry and you are doing as you should. Allow her to use the truth as she wishes - she has to get it out of her system for you to be able to move along.


Sp

SP,
WW is wanting us to visit, told her again when OM is gone will happily visit. Called OM last night and respectfully asked him to leave my home as the A is dividing our family and hurting us all, even WW. Told him that I am fighting for what is right and just and will not falter. WW called this morning, said she was up all night, very upset about whole situation, and wants a visit. I am not pushing her but letting her know that Ty and I miss her and are here for her, but the boundaries are not negotiable. Trying to be a lighthouse.

JMT

Good for you - keep it up, I admire tha calm stance you are taking when dealing with this.

How are things with you and Ty since you told him of your exA?

SP

Hi, JMT...

"WW is definitely using truth to justify A. She said that the last 18 years have been a lie.
"Yes, and the first one was me having anything to do with you until you were divorced."

She was married when I met her, and just like this situation, told me/others that he was abusive, controlling, unfaithful, etc..."

I see this as good news for you...because you can agree with her whole-heartedly...you've learned it wasn't right, how it feels to know what you did, own it, know better, do better. This isn't about your WW's choices...your own...sharing...and you now stand in her ex-husband's shoes, realize how you bought her perspective, took it as your own, and are now freed by seeing truth from her actions, not her beliefs.

You get it. Tap dance, J...you get it!

Also, you understand better your wife's permission to herself to alter her life based on her feelings...and belief that her issues are external...replace the spouse fixes the problem. You can see this isn't working really well, can't you?

Have you inventoried and owned your part in being OM nearly two decades ago? Owned this stuff to her...as an amends? I ask because it your self-care, understanding and truth I'm most concerned with...that it might have a byproduct result with your WW would be just that...not within the intent...just you holding yourself to your standard of honesty and openness and ownership...which helps you enforce those same boundaries.

Why would you choose to believe your chances for reconciliation are slim? How does choosing this belief aid you in Plan A? You didn't know you'd be in this situation, and the more you are in it, the more see where it is a repeat of patterns you didn't see before...wouldn't the future be as unknowable?

You are doing well with listening and repeating, handing back her words with choice...staying true to yourself...

Can you get a book from the library, "Between Parent and Child"?

LA

Well, WW just informed me that another PFA has been filed, she will be getting Ty thru the Family Court system, so don't bother coming down unless I want to go to jail. I haven't a clue what set her off, talked to her this morning, no indication of trouble... Time for Plan B?

JMT

WW called to talk to Ty, he handed me the phone and walked away... Well, the LBing commenced from both sides, reaching grand proportions. Sucked me in, she did. Given the PFA ( which I will verify Mon. a.m.) I didn't feel real bad as she has been treating me horribly, but I am angry with myself for not being an example and letting the anger show.

JMT

Have you talked to your attorney about abusive filing? What are the steps you have taken before to have the PFA's dropped or can they be ruled on with prejudice so they can't be refiled?

Use your time to gather whatever reports you need to contradict her filing...phone records, mileage on your truck, anything to show you are not doing what she says in order to obtain the PFA.

Plan A is about truth...takes a lot of work with no expectations...and hanging up is better than LB'ing any time. Your son just taught you that.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

LA

LA,
Confirmed PFA was a lie and went to house unannounced while WW was at work and discovered why she didn't want me there.The truth that she didn't want me to know...

a. OM's clothes in closet, dresser, etc... he's way in
b. OM's teenage son is living there, has his own room.
c. $500 puppy that was supposedly Ty's belongs to OM"s son.
d. back yard, beautifully landscaped and supposedly being maintained, looked like a jungle, pool water black.
e. WW is not happy, didn't look it or act it.
f. Ty's room supposedly done being remodeled for him still torn apart and full of junk.

WW arrived a few minutes after I did, OM watched from the street, She knew that I'd seen the truth... that she is living a lie... and I knew it... I could see the pain in her eyes... but I felt it best to get my stuff and go...( with a 6-pack of OM's Heineken, left him 2...)
Called to thank her when I left, she said not to call her again... but I have 4 months of Plan A to do, waiting for SAA to arrive, will it be too late? Not giving up hope... should I wait for her to call? I feel that her anger and unhappiness are being directed at me because I am the easy target... If she takes it out on OM, who is paying most of the bills, she loses her meal ticket...

JMT

I guess I don't get where you saw the lie...had she been telling you different? You began your thread acknowledging that most likely, OM moved right in...was there something in you that didn't want to believe that?

Did you take a camera? Photograph Ty's room and OM's son's room? Gathering evidence of reality is important...for custody, future PFA's (or fake ones)...

Plan A means you are the reality bringer...calm, respectful and true. Helps you not to fall for fantasy...of your own making...wishing...hoping...and stay grounded in faith, knowing what you control and what you don't. Knowing the power of your own choices and not fearing them.

You don't have four more months of Plan A if you must live inauthentically to do it. What would be the point? You've exposed to everyone...her work, family, your family, all your friends...that's bringing reality. You've created boundaries and are enforcing them.

Making love your choice, instead of it being earned by her, her actions...is how Plan A is authentic and doable. Going to Plan B, complete with letter, a way back, and a third-party, isn't retaliation...it truly is being a reality bringer, with loving limits, even in darkness.

How about sharing those feelings out right, in the light, instead of hidden in describing actions...you thought you saw pain in your WW's eyes...about her seeming unhappiness...what about you, J? Think about it...you're in training for an awesome marriage...radical honesty and respect...

Practice.

Here.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

LA,
I just don't KNOW how to act sometimes, or love when it seems to invite more hostility... I don't want to plan B - I'd rather continue to do a good A, I guess I'm not doing so well since I haven't gotten the book. If she doesn't want me to call shouldn't I respect that? Should I Plan B not having done a good A? HELP!

To find your center, you act from your code. You do not choose based on possible responses or previous ones. If you believe you love less when you are responded to with hostility, then these teen years coming up are gonna be rough with Ty.

And they are rough enough.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This is where DJ's come in with such power...in order for you to fear loving the face of hostility, you much suppose the hostility is caused by you. What do you feel if you suppose you aren't the cause?

If you choose to guide your choices by your feelings, you'll be in a continuous loop, won't you? Your feelings come from your beliefs...your DJs, expectations, assumptions...to live by them is to live backwards.

So you choose to live to your goal...to save your marriage, be true to yourself in the face of betrayal; and you choose from those priorities, not feelings.

Her desire is not to call her. What is yours? You can write letters, open and honest, as if you're making those statements in person. Simple, direct. So can Ty. You can align your intent with your goals and choose from them. You can share this journey with Ty, without burdening him...feelings are tough to stay in touch with, to know, to describe pain well enough to know its source...and it comes from within...worth a lot of open dialogue.

You make love your choice, and your acts of love can be...prayers, lifting you up, Ty up and WW up; envisioning the marriage you really want to have, seeing your part, then being that now...

You can examine your beliefs...choose to know OM's teenaged son is not ursurping Ty's place...he is as much of a victim of his father's affair as is Ty...you can bring out what is in you and look at it, without judgment or disdain...you can love yourself directly, not going through WW to get back into you...

You can focus on good memories not as solace, but truth. Keeping these in your awareness is crucial for seeing today as just today...not eternity. Hasn't always been like this, so it won't always be, will it?

You are loving anyway, by choice, J...that's a good Plan A. Judging yourself means you judge others, just as harshly. You are your own resource...be kinder to you, and you will be to others. Be more forgiving to yourself...embrace those human limits...and you will be more forgiving towards others.

What you won't do for yourself, you really don't do for others...you may only think you do.

I back you on your choices...except to LB...within yourself or to others.

You can read a lot about Love Busters here...free...someone may have a copy of SAA...I'll look for mine...and we can send it to you...I did most of mine at the library...including the Five Languages of Love by Gary Chapman.

Spend your time focused on what you do control and less on what you can't. That's respect. How about you don't think of it as respecting her wishes...but choosing to honor them or not?

Respect is a messily defined word. Stay really aware and conscious of details within you...know why you went to check out the house, why you felt what you felt when you were there and what you saw...know more and more about yourself and your craving to know more about what she's doing, thinking and believing will abate.

LA

LA,
If her mind is made up to just bide her time until D and then drag him through the courts, being the stubborn person that she is, I can't help but think that my efforts are in vain. I desperately want to believe that there is hope, but it is so hard...These are the things I can't control... AHA!
Now I'm starting to get it LA!Thanks for helping me to focus on the goal! BE STILL... BE STILL... I need to start getting more of this right, not just the dancing... THANK YOU!

JMT

P.S. Told Ty he needed to call WW every night and tell her about his day, he did and man was she excited... WW asked who's idea it was, "Daddy's"... SAA arrived today, stayed up WAY late reading until my eyes started crossing!