I posted in april about my situation, but Im going to summarize it again...

My wife went on a vacation with some family (mostly women) down in Dominican republic. I took 2 weeks off work to watch the kids so she could go.
She returned april 7th.
On April 21st, I discovered several emails and messenger discussions between her and a guy from Germany that she met down in the dom republic.
The emails consisted of statements like "missing you", "miss your smile" etc.. flirtatious stuff.

I asked her about it that day, and she initially lied.
Anyways, over the next 4 weeks, we had 3 huge arguments that almost ended our marriage. Each time she was supposed to stop talking to him and stop lying.

Everytime, about 1-2 weeks without talking to him, she sends him an email and it starts up again. Although not flirtatious, she is still talking to him and hiding it from me.

She has now broke 3 very specifc promises on this subjuect, and continues to email this guy. ( i have not told her that I know she has started up again )

Now, heres where i need advice.
Its obvious that she wont stop talking to him, and that she will even lie more and more about it. Yet she claims its innocent and I should stop invading her privacy.

Do I call her on it again? I cant just let it go, its to hard. I cant work, slepp etc....

She has done all the below...
- changed her passwords several times..
- changed options in her email so messages arent saved etc...
- she recently added a "sig" to her email that reads "Sunshine" which is his nickname for her. (she only uses that mail account for him)


Lastly,
if/when I loose my patience and decide once and for all the marriage is over ( which sucks, theres 3 kids involved )...
how do I go about it?
I cant leave the house, which means I would have to kick her out (she would just go to her parents)

Is it justified for me to ask her to leave? or do I have to say I've given up and leave myself? (not an option as I have nowhere to go)

Before answering your questions, what have you identified in your marriage that you did or didn't do that contributed to its poor state?

Have you fixed these things?

Things that contributed to it's poor state (which we have discussed and realize) are:
- She wants me to spend more time with her and the kids doing family things. This has been an issue that has improved more and more over the past cpl years, and she has told me several times that it has improved and is good. Not only that, but she has told me that it has been a complete turn around for the past 4 weeks and that everything is exactly the way she wants it.
- I want her to treat me as a husband and not a piece of garbage.

with that said, I couldnt help myself... I called her on the problem yesterday.

This is how it went down:
- I asked her why she has yahoo messenger on her computer again. ( after the last big arguement, it was decided that she would uninstall it, as it was one of the ways she talked to this guy ) She said she "doesn't know, it just keeps comming back on her computer" . Well, that's bs, but I let it go. What I was doing when i mentioned I think was trying to give her an opportunity to tell me she is still talking to him, but she didnt. So we left it at that. BUT, she then got up and started mopping the floor, she looked angry, so I asked her why she was angry. She then looked at me with a look on her face that I felt meant she thought I was going to tell her I know about her talking to him again, and she was ready to get mad and blow up. So, i didnt tell her, but I acted "curious" and "suspicous" as to why she is expecting me to say something. I even asked her, "why are you looking at me like that... are you hiding something?" she said no. She also lost the look on her face and started to explain that she doesnt know how yahoo got on her computer again,,, she said maybe it was one of the kids. At this point, I feel she thinks I dont know, she shes gone back to being ok.

I then left to go back to work... errr i tried to. I made it to my truck, then turned around and went back inside.
I went straight to her and said "I know you are still talking to him".
She said "No i'm not, I havent heard from him in 3 or 4 weeks"
After a short pause, she told me to calm down as she seen that I was shaking.
I then told her that I know she is lying, and asked her why she is still lying.. what did I do...
She asked me how I know. I said it doesnt matter, you are still lying to me, why?
She then turned to the "i dont know" state... and the "I dont know what you want me to say"

After a few words, she asked me what I want. I told her first of all that I want the picture of this guy, and any other thing that relates to him in anyway out of my house.
She said fine and proceeded to gather up stuff to throw away, and also started taking her computer apart. (She was mad, not responding to my questions at this point)
I asked several questions, then started asking why she isnt responding and what gives her the right to be mad at me and ignore me when she is the problem...
She then stood up and said "I am mad because you have been holding this in for weeks, why didnt you say something before?"
This is where I got angry. I got angry because the previous argument we had about this was played down a bit by her by saying "I was going to tell you that i talked to him, i just hadnt thought of a way to tell you yet" (that was 3-4 weeks ago, right before the second time we agreed she would not talk to him.

So, I told her that I didnt mention it because or 2 things. First, I was hoping it would just end and go away, and second, I was giving her that "time" to think of a way to tell me.
I then siad "but you didnt tell me did you!" and walked out the door.

I came home about an hour later (left work early)
I asked her what we should do, she said she doesnt know.
Over the next hour i expalined to her what shes done, how much she's lied, how much shes disrespected me and the kids, the lack of care shes shown, and everything.
She said that she doesnt know why she keeps talking to him. She even went on to say that its the way she is, the way she thinks.. she knows its wrong but cant help it. She then blames that on our marriage.

Beleive it or not, she actually said to me " I've been happy the past few weeks, everything is great"
I stopped her right there and asked her 5 questions in a row...
1- do you realize that we are not talking about a way to make you happy, we are talking about how you screwed up and how we are going to fix it - no answer
2- why are you thinking about the fact that you have been happy over the last month, and not realizing how I might feel? no answer
3- do you not realize what you just said? you basically said "im happy the way it is now, things with you are good and i still talk to edi"... i asked her why the heck she doesnt see anything wrong with that statement. no answer
4- i said "you are killing me right now, you might as well spit in my face. Doesnt that hurt you to know I feel that way" no answer
5- I then asked said " No-one on earth deserves to be treated the way you treat me, and no man that I know would have put up with this and fought this hard, do you agree?"

she said yes.

Over the next cpl hours she apoligized for talking top him, she tried to explain that she does feel guilty, and feels bad etc... but just couldnt help it .. and she doesnt know what makes her decide to lie to me and talk to him.

We agreed that she would never talk to him again, not even to say goodbye or whatever. she agreed to remove everything in the house that relates to this guy or that could possibly remind me of him.

Just to clarify, she did say that everything between us was great, and admitted that she doesnt know why she still lied to me while knowing things were good.... she claimed it would take time. Statements like that make me cringe.

later in the night, I asked her if she got a letter with a disc he sent to her, she said No.
I told her I found the letter, so she had lied to me yet again.
I let it go, laughed it off with her

My question....

what the heck is wrong with my wife????

IMO, this sounds like a personality disorder on a small degree. She sounds like a "stay out of trouble" liar. Perhaps she doesn't feel that her honesty is safe. You've really got to look at your reactions when she tells the truth too. When she comes clean with something, do you say, "Thank you for your honesty." or do you flip out? If her honesty is being punished, she really doesn't have an incentive to be honest with you.

Best wishes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

She's in an unhappy marriage.

Your story is chock full of demanding and controlling behavior - by you:




Sounds like you're quite the domineering type.

Do you want to make her be happy with you - or do you want to have a happy marriage with her?

This is a two way street, Pal.

Now, don't for a minute think that I'm defending her actions. Adultery is wrong and if she was unhappy with the marriage she had other options available to her to address it.

But she's probably exactly right about one thing:
YOUR MARRIAGE SUCKS!!!

The very fact that you're here describing it confirms that it sucks.

And you're at least 50% why it sucks.

I suggest you both get into counseling and straighten this up. You have to change your ways from being the domineering husband to being a loving partner.

You cannot make anyone love you. But you can create an environment that makes loving you irresistible.

If you don't do this, you'll end up demanding she give up the next guy as well.

JMHO

WAT

Did she admit to a PA yet? Notice I said yet.

My story is somewhat similar to yours. Wife went on vacation. Wife came home. Wife talked to OM. Wife denied an affair. Wife kept lying. Wife kept covering up. I turned up heat. Wife admitted to a PA.

You need to find out what exactly happened. Call her friends she went with and let them know what is going on. Tell them she admitted an A with him but you want to know exactly how drunk she was that night. They will think you know and in order to help her out they will say very drunk. Or they will say they don't know what you are talking about. Either way they were part of this as well. They know what happened.

You need to find out because something doesn't seem right with her story.

My opinion:

She's having one of her "high" ENs being met by that OM. That's the thing about our high ENs - the higher they are, the more likely we will allow someone to meet them and ignore the fallout of doing so.

I'll take a guess and suggest that (1) Conversation is likely one of her top ENs, and (2) you're not meeting that at the moment.

You want the honest answer? I don't pretend to be any sort of marriage counselor but I see what I see. You strike me as a very self interested person. And if I had to make a guess I would say your wife does not believe you love her.


Well I wouldn't answer this question either. Why as a man, the head of the household, would say to his wife I don't care about making you happy and expect to have a good marriage is beyond reason. You see your wife needs you to love her and she needs to feel loved. This is a curse placed on her by God himself. Don't Believe me? Read Genesis 3:16 - This is God speaking to Adam and Eve.

3:16 To the woman He said:
“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your
conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.”

She is cursed to desire you and even though you do not think that she does, the book of absolute truth says she does. Ruling over your wife does not mean that you are a dictator to her. Acutally it's quite the opposite. You must have a servant's heart when dealing with your wife. All great rulers were servents of their subjects. You must put her above yourself. You are to honor and cherish her. And believe it or not it is that simple.



Answer - She desires you to love her above any person on the face of the earth including yourself. And she desires it every minute of everyday.

God Bless

OAM

langaan,

I don't blame you for asking the questions you did, I just hope you weren't LB'ing while you did it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Your wife is experiencing the famous cake-eating phenomenon. She's been happy these past few weeks because she has it all- a husband who meets some of her needs (i.e. family committment, financial support), and a lover who meets others (i.e. conversation, affection). She needs you to set some boundaries. This means you are going to have to lay things out for her, in black and white. What you will lay out to her is Harley's Basic MB Principles. Print these out for her to read, especially the NC, EN, and withdrawl parts. Encourage her to read as much as she is willing. I'm assuming you've read everything on this site, but if you haven't, get busy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> You need to educate yourself so you know what path you want to take, rather than just flying by the seat of your pants. Have a plan and goals before you approach her again. Your ultimate goal is the recovery of your marriage, to fall in love and stay in love with your wife. It takes two, and it takes more work and patience than anything else you will ever do in your lifetime.

I agree wholeheartedly with whoever suggested you talk to the friends that went on the trip with her. Exposure is a must, and you might as well get some good info. at the same time you're exposing her A. You do realize this is an A, right? What she was/is doing is an A, whether there was sex or not.

If she sincerely wants to stop talking with OM and recover in her M, suggest she get on this forum for support from other FWS's like myself. I would be happy to help her get through withdrawl. It is a VERY difficult experience, and not a good idea to go it alone. IC and MC would be extremely beneficial, but she has to be willing to go, of course.

NC needs to be established immediately. You will not proceed in recovery until NC has been established. Read up on this immediately.

All my best to you and your wife,

KJ

ok.. but heres the problem with all those suggestions:

- I asked her to read my original post on this forum a few weeks back. It took a while, but i convinced her to. She read the post and her response was that she hoped the people posting advice werent being paid, then walked away.

- She refuses any and all types of counselling

- I have talked with others, and just to clarify, there was not and has not been a physical affair.

Ive taken every path i could find and i cant get anywhere.

We have discussed the fact that her unhappiness in the marriage may have contributed to this, and it was due to me not meeting her needs with respect to doing things with the famil, spending time at inlaws etc..

However, she says she has given up on it, and doesnt think she can "get by" it. so she wants to forget about it and go on. I keep asking her for help and ways to make it better, trying to discuss these issues, and she refuses.

This is a message she sent the other guy the first time i found out about the whole thing...

Hello #%$, Sorry haven't spoken in a few days. Hope your daughters comminion went well. Not sure if this will be clear to you, but I have come to realize that I have gotten to wrapped up in our e-mails. I allowed the flirting to go to far. And although I did not intentionally want this to become a big event in my life it has. It did take my husband finding the e-mails for me to realize what had happened. In the Dominican it was nice to have you and your friends to visit with, being that we are the same age. It was nice to have friendly conversation with people other than my family. We exchanged e-mails and wanted to exchange photo's. Because are converstions were one on one they became flirtatious, and unapropiate for a married woman. Which I am sure you must realize. I have hurt my husband, and now realize that my marriage and family are most important to me. I need to work on my marriage and rebuild it with my husband. We have 10 years and three beutiful kids invested in this. So for the sake of my marriage the best thing to do is to focus on them now. Thank you for the fun times you and your friends made my trip more fun. Take care.

Since that email, they have started to communicate with eachother twice again since , both times initiated by her.

the below is a mail sent to him this week... its innocent in a way, but the fact is she is not supposed to be talking to this guy, we agreed to it, and it ends with "missing you" etc...

Good day edi. Hope all is well with you. I am doing well. not sure if i mentioned it in my last email but I am in the middle of a career change. I am going to open a daycare in my home and watch other peoples children. Was just sitting here wondering what you were doing? You never seem to be online when i check to say hi. I sent you an email a few days ago and haven't heard back. you must be keeping busy. We have been watching a lot of hockey, in the stanley cup finals now. Hopeing Edmonton wins it, do you ever watch hockey. Good game just as good as soccer(football). Have been busy trying to get my house and papers in order to start child care. Alot I have to do. Have to get the fire department to come inspect my house. Lock up all medicine and cleaning chemicals. On the 18 of june I am going to take my first aid and cpr course. I am looking foward to staying home with my kids, that is the reason I am doing this. I will be giving up a good job, but I will not have to work on the weekend or christmas anymore. Will be nice. Any ways am just talking about nothing, should start supper we have soccer early tonight so it is an early supper night. Take care missing you


Ive asked her for help to figure out what to do, and she wont talk to me.

I need advice, because I am on the vurge of ending the relationship this weekend. I can understand i havent met her EM in the past, but weve realized that, and shes told me everything has been perfect for the last 6 weeks, yet she still started this up again.. twice.. and lied many many times.

Langaan -

What do you want?? Do you want to take steps to save your marriage?? Or do you want to save face. I'm sensing the latter. Tell us.

langaan,



Nope, not what you need to do or think.

If you think you've given all you have to save your M, then maybe you should leave. I'm being brutally honest here, and it's just my opinion, but you and your wife haven't even begun the work it's going to take to save your M. You need to 5hit or get off the pot fella, commit to what it is you truely want.

As for your wife (and I'm sure this comes as no surprise to you), she is in the fog, big time. As I posted earlier, she is cake-eating. Her last email to OM was actually VERY encouraging to me. She is desperately reaching for the OM, and he is not meeting her EN's the way he once was. My gutt feeling is, this will continue, and she will begin to see OM for what he really is, a fantasy. But this takes time, patience and a big swallow of pride on your part.

Please hang in there pal. I can assure you, it's worth every drop of sweat and every tear cried.

KJ

I want to save the marriage, I assure you that. I love her to death, I love my children, and I can't imagine life without them.

Karijean,
What I gather from your post is that I should suck it up, take in the pain, and let the EA continue with the other guy until it wears off...

i thank you all for your honesty and help btw..

anyways....

Tell me your opinions...
do I suck it up and let it go on, hope for the best etc...

what is it that I havent done yet? Ive tried everything I can think of, most of which end up with me hitting a wall with her.

Lastly,
she has asked me what it would take to make me happy. she asked if ending the whole thing with the guys is all it will take.
Is it a good idea for me to tell her that I need 2 things...

1- end all communication with this guy
2- discuss the issues weve had about this guy, issues that lead up to it, etc... and get help from people on this forum?

and if that is a good idea, what do I do if she says "No, i wont do that?"

Then why are you posting here asking for advice?


Really? I get the feeling that you think this is a light switch that can be turned on and off. She isn't just going to say
"oh ok that's how you really feel, sorry I was completely wrong" And then things just go back to normal.

She wants action, she wants to see you really love her.

Let me ask you this question. God forbid, if your wife or one of your children were in the path of a speeding vehicle would you sacrifice yourself and push them out of the way knowing that you may be flattened? I am betting you would, most men would. It is innate in us men that we protect our families etc.

Well, guess what your marriage is in the path of a speeding 18 wheeler and it is going to require that you sacrifice yourself in order to save it. Lang, you must die to yourself.
That means you must fight everything you have been told, taught, seen on TV, etc about how you are supposed to act as a man and more importantly as a married man. You must fight every fiber of your being that says ME, ME, ME. If you want to save your marriage, and then have a very strong marriage you must have a servants heart for your wife.

Servants Heart - A servants heart is one that does not wish ill will, does not rebuke, does not seek its own. But loves and enjoys it's service in all things.

This doesn't mean that you are going to work 8 hours a day and then coming home and do the cleaning and cooking etc. What does your wife need? She needs you! As I said God has cursed her to need you and nothing can ever change that. She needs to have meaningful conversations with you, for you to touch her lovingly without sex involved. For you to lead the family (with a servants heart). If your wife works it means she wants you to help her with certain things around the house doing them together. She wants you to be gentle!

This last one usually gets men. Most men think gentle is a a wussy attitude and somehow might compromise their manhood. But its not at all. Have you seen the movie The Black Stallion? In that movie there is a wild mustang that no one can tame. But this wild mustang comes to love a boy and CHOOSES to be very gentle around the boy. It delights in letting the boy ride him (Servants heart). The Black doesnt lose any of its qualities by doing this. It is still just as fast, strong, and beautiful as it ever was. That is the kind of gentleness that wives want from their husbands. They want their Husbands, the person that they need, their mustang, to be gentle with them unlike any other.

Yes, your wife has wronged you, yes you can choose to continue blaming her and making her feel like less than nothing or you can choose to save your marriage. You can forgive her, and throw yourself in harms way to save your marriage...It's your choice and yours alone...no matter what anyone says here on this message board.

Let me leave you with this verse:

Most people have heard the story of Jonah and the whale. Jonah sacrificed himself to save a sinking ship.

Jonah1:12 And he said to them, “Pick me up and throw me into the sea; then the sea will become calm for you. For I know that this great tempest is because of me.”

God Bless

OAM

Should I not be here? Please tell me if this is the wrong place to be looking for help.




Absolutely not. She has told me that she loves the way things have been over the past month, but she feels deep down that it wont stay this way. She feels it will go back to the way it was.

So am I supposed to ignore the fact that she will not stop talking to this guy and sending him flirtatious emails? If so, please say so.



You said she needs action, she needs me to love her...
I know that, and have talked to her about that. She says I have done that, but still decides to lie to me and talk to the guy. When I ask her why, she says that deep down she must feel things will go back to the way they were.

You also said...
She needs to have meaningful conversations with you, for you to touch her lovingly without sex involved. For you to lead the family (with a servants heart). If your wife works it means she wants you to help her with certain things around the house doing them together. She wants you to be gentle!


I agree,
but unfortunately I also know the facts about what is happening.
I know, for a fact, that we have spent every minute possible together in the last few weeks, and have both enjoyed it very much. BUT, I also know that she has hidden herself away in her bedroom for hours everyday while im at work to talk to this guy. She is back to telling him things like "Missing you" and other flirtatious stuff...

My point is,
Ive taken the steps that you are talking about, and they have infact improved the marriage, they have made her happy with me and the marriage (she said so herself), but yet she still breaks her promise and talks to him.

Reality of this whole thing is, I am human. I cannot put 150% into a marriage, have my wife tell me she appreciates the fact that I am doing it, have everything get to the way she wants (as she said), and then find out that the EA was started up again and began to progress.

So, I ask of anyone here, not "what do I do?", because i have already done the things (or some of) that have been suggested that I do, so my question is "What next?"

Remimber these things:
- she will NOT admit that what has happened is an emotional affair. So even though Ive "exposed" it, she doesnt look at it as an EA.
- she has admitted that she has done nothing to help me fix our marriage, and doesnt know what she should do. She keeps asking me "what do you want me to say?"

I am being honest here, I just need some advice as to what to do next, because I feel Ive done everything except "suck it up and hope for the best"

also remember, she has said straight out, that all the problems she had with the marraige are fixed... those are her words. Yet in the same sentence she says "I dont know if I can forgive you for the past 3 yrs"

Lastly,
I have told her that I am willing to fix any issues she has, her response is "No, lets just move on"

Langaan, it's time for you to sit down with yourself and figure out whether you want to salvage this marriage or whether you're ready to end it. If you do want to save it, perhaps you can take a look at the link in my signature block about organizing a marital recovery. That will give you an idea of what you need to do, and provides an outline of how to go about it.

One thing I think you need to understand is you are not describing a wayward wife that is in the least out of the ordinary. For talking purposes, they are ALL recalcitrant, none want to work on the marriage, and none of them know why they feel that way. Her attitudes can be softened and her feelings for you and the marriage revitalized through the principles Dr. Harley recommends IF you are willing to put 1000% into the relationship and expect nothing in return in the short term. Are you strong enough to do that?