Am I allowing an opportunity to slip by? My WW keeps talking about working on a friendship with me. Says she misses talking to me and my family but also says she's decided there's no way she would ever be truly happy with me. Says she needs to do what's best for herself and that means continuing to see the OM and move out this weekend. We're separated now since the A. Going on one month since I found out, been working on her for two to cut it off, but she says she likes where it's going. She's off in lala land. Our marriage was hard, hurtful. Only two years long. Both of our fault but she likes to blame me. Question is: should I hold to making her quit her OM before talking friend stuff? I think the whole idea of working on our friendship is okay but then again she says there's no way we'll ever work out. I don't just want friendship, especially with a wife who committed A. Is she just confused and maybe thinks there is a chance our marriage could work? Or is she trying to hold onto someone she knows she can trust and/or manipulate for needs. Should I demand she cut it off, or try to work the angle and gain trust?
If I let it slide and don't demand she end it, I lose respect and maybe her. But I'd rather have my respect right now...

Have you exposed? Kids involved? We need a little more info. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The reason she wants to be your "friend" is so that you will shut up while she destroys your marriage. It's like the rapist saying, "be quiet and just enjoy it." She wants you NOT to complain while she gets it on with another man. Why would you want to be "friends" with someone who lies and cheats like that?

She is not your "friend," she is your wife. Tell her this.

Have you exposed the affair?

Exposed A same day I found out. No kids. No real assests. I love my wife but the immaturity level is skyrocketing out of control. Been going above and beyond to give her a chance to repent, understand the world doesn't revolve around her but it's painful. About to call it quits just because she keeps saying things like "this is what's best for me." Seems convinced we have no connection, but then requests we keep a friendship. Needless to say she has no friends left. Just a boyfriend who is most likely using her. That relationship will not last six months. Feel sorry for her, mostly want to reform her, but also want a normal marriage later on. So much to filter through though. Advice has been to get rid of her, but I still care for some reason. After I told her she needed to stop seeing OM she acted offended and we ended the conversation. She has still not apologized for the A. Claims she can't be with me, but then entertains conversations about our problems. It's starting to get ridiculous. Just wish she'd realize that someone like me willing to stick with it through all this garbage is better than some guy she thinks she has "a lot in common with." Then again if what they have in common is selfishly destoying people's lives then they are a great match. Sorry for the sarcasm. Getting fed up, but still trying to figure it out.

No children, short marriage, I say bail out while you can. You are making a big mistake if you stay in this relationship.

The best thing for you - and HER - is to not be her friend while she engages in destructive behavior. Let her know that "friends" don't lie and cheat and that she needs to BE a "friend" in order to have a "friend."

Sorry this is happening to you, but maybe its a blessing it happened before you had 3 kids and a big mortgage.

p.s. as long as she chooses to act like an ENEMY, she can't be treated as a "friend."

Read up on Plan B.

I tend to agree that since you don’t have kids or assets you should move on. Plan B might be exactly what (a) might wake her up to reality and (b) give you space and time to emotionally detach. Either way I think you will come out of this situation in abetter way than if the present environment is maintained.

I realize Plan B is the way to go and then that will lead inevitably into divorce is my guess. I just need to get it through my head that talking, reasoning, trying to make her understand the path she's taking leads to misery, will not work. She is setting herself up for a life of sorrow. I know it would be easy (at least legally and logistically) to just give up, but part of me doesn't want to quit if I can make a difference for her.

As I write this I know it's a foolish way to think and the ongoing affair is so completely damaging to both of us I wonder how she's even still functioning, but that stupid side of me that won't just give up already keeps telling me there's hope. Hope for our marriage and hope she will quit hurting herself and me. She has no idea the impact this will have on her spiritually, emotionally, mentally later on. She believes it is her way of showing prowess, foresight and independence but it's a complete deception.

So I keep wondering if talking to her, not getting into a "friendship" but just meeting with her sometimes and talking to her instead of going full Plan B would be helpful. I'm conflicted. I think I know this is a stupid idea, but I still feel a sense of responsibility. Who can help me see what I need to do here?

I am in a similar situation. My wife won't stop seeing the OM and I tried living with it and hoping it would burn out soon. Well, that's not going to happen so I've been shaking the tree to see what falls out.

Forget about reasoning with her -- it won't happen. You could explain clear-headed solutions to all your problems and she would still find a reason to see the OM. Believe me, I've been there and am still shocked at the total difference between the woman I married and this alien clone put in her place.

The friendship thing is just to keep a hold on you in case the affair doesn't work out. It also means you have been providing some emotional needs that she wants but that the OM isn't capable of providing.

If you are going to Plan B you will have to go all out. No contact.

Two years?
No kids?
No assets?

My suggestion is "Plan D". She's not ready for M - her actions demonstrate this. She's no W, and she's no friend either. Walk away, and don't look back.

C13,

""I just need to get it through my head that talking, reasoning, trying to make her understand the path she's taking leads to misery, will not work.""

Can you talk, reason, etc. with a crackhead sucking on her pipe? A drunk guzzling the last drops from a bottle of thunderbird? A herion addict letting loose the surgical tubing around her arm?

BE DONE WITH THE TALKING!! It only sounds whiny and pathetic anyway!!

Go totally darkly plan B. And not speak to her at all. No contact!!

It will help you take care of yourself, and disengage from the alien.

Stay strong!

I second MIM. Plan D is the reasonable thing to do here.

Dude -Run for the hills and run fast!

You have no kids you are lucky. You were in a short term marriage that even you say was not a good one. She then cheats on you.

She wants to be your friend so she can feel less guilty about ripping out your heart. My advise to you is don't be her friend. She gets to make a choice she is either your wife or a distant memory that you know longer want to be around or ever talk to.

She made vows to you. She wants the other guy and she feels guilty. So if she can make you her "friend" she will feel less guilty. Some men and women are toxic and you should avoid people like this at all costs.

I have a wife like yours but I have kids to worry about. I do not love her or want to be with her but I have kids. Since you were not married long and she has already betrayed you I would get out now.

If you want any chance with her though do not become her friend. She wants to cake eat. She could come back and be your wife or nothing. JMHO.

Cornith,

Despite what some others have said, I would encourage you NOT to give up. My marriage has also only been two years and no kids, its coming closer to two and a half years now though and her A started in Aug.05, but really got going in Jan.06 (my story is more involved and I won't repeat it here).

Even though I have only even know my wife for not too much more than three years, I'm personally going to be fighting for this to the bitter end. This woman is the one I love, the only one I have ever found that is this incredible or felt this strongly for... Also, be VERY careful not to allow yourself to be sucked into your own A, it is easy to do when you are feeling like this.

She is acting insane right now, but just remind yourself that this is NOT who she normally or really is, it is just the fog of the affair that has taken over. It has been this knowledge that has helped keep my love strong for my WW even when she does very hurtful things.

I would suggest trying Plan A for a while before jumping into Plan B. Have you been doing Plan A? For how long? I personally suggest sticking with it for at least six months, and in doing this you must address the ENs that you had failed to meet before and begin to meet them...as much as she will allow anyhow. Find annoying habits of your own, and work on them as well. Show her how awesome of an option you really are, expose the A (she will probably get angry for this, but it passes, even though it feels like it won't and is very scary at times!), don't LB. I believe if you do this for a while before Plan B then Plan B has a much larger impact (I am still in Plan A myself).

As Hiker said, you can't talk her out of it, and I would suggest not even trying. Telling her you want it to end, that it hurts you, and focusing mostly on your feelings in a calm and respectful way is best. When she starts to fog babble just calmly and respectfully attempt to put in some reality by either reminding her of things that had really happened, what she had said before, or asking questions to show that it doesn't make sense.

A lot of people think I am crazy for even remotely believing that her and I will save this marriage, especially since she has said she has no interest in it, its over, etc. I know that the chances are very strong that we will save this...I feel completely certain, but have to admit that I could be wrong=)

I'm trying to give her a chance to come to her senses and realize this is a huge mistake. She blames me for being emotionally unavailable, depressed, neglectful, boring for six months... six months! and then she quit and decided in secret to move on. I didn't know our vows had a six month clause in it so no wonder I'm caught by surprise. She says the affair has nothing to do with our marriage. Said she decided in her heart it was over so it justifies her A. Now the damage has been done and she's in fantasy mode with this OM.

My question is: do these affairs typically turn into anything? She thinks he is her match (known him for around four months) is this common among affairs? I mean, I know it is, but I guess I just want to know that its doomed to fail (for my own ego). What are the odds this will be her ideal guy? If it is, in some insane way she will have been right about it all along... leaves me for the guy it works out with. Tell me I'm not the only one thinking that craziness!

corinth13, you're not the only one.

I'm going through the same thing. My husband feels caught between me and doing the right thing, or her, the woman who fulfills him, or something like that. If you read the MB website, it says that most of these things die a natural death within six months. The small percentage that do make it, only have a 25% marriage survival rate. Why? Because the relationships are grounded in nothing but lies and deception. I know how you feel, waiting for her to come to her senses. I'm waiting for my husband to come to his senses, too. And it's the most grueling thing I've ever been through.

I'll pray for you.

C -

Get "Not Just Friends" by Shirly Glass. Right away. It does a good job of describing who WSs pick as affair partners and why. Typically they pick damaged people. Because the WS is damaged WHILE they're making the decision to be with the OP.

For this reason, A marriages usally end in D. Most As do not even make it to marriage. Your WW has chosen someone to fill the few needs that you were not meeting. Now if you were meeting NONE of her needs then that works against you. Most likely you were meeting most but not all. So when the OM is relied upon to meet ALL of WW's needs the relationship usually crashes. That's what plan B is about. Pulling the ENs out from under the WS which make them realize - "crap. BS was doing more for me than I thought s/he was".

Based on the fact that she's making it clear that a friedship with you is important I would say that she already KNOWS that her OM cannot meet all her needs. Else why would she have to supplement him with you??

Usually Plan A is first but since she's not living with you - right? - Plan B is probably the way to go. Why should she have you as an intimate friend yet be with another man at the same time? Does that sound reasonable to you? Do you thing it would be reasonable to her if she was in your position?

Try it out on her - next time she brings up friendship, ask her - you know I'm having a tough time with this one. Say you were in my shoes, what would you do? Maintain friendship with me while I screwed the woman that broke up our marriage?

Regardless of what she says I would Plan B her.

Is the OM married? Kids? Does the OMW know??

Good luck friend.

There is of course a chance it could work out between them, but only 10% of affairs turn into marriages, and 70% (or 75%) of those marriages fail. Basically 3 in a hundred. rltraveled is right, I would also add that they fail because they do not learn from the mistakes of the existing marriage; whereas you have (or can!) which means that you know how to avoid all the old problems, or at least know what to tackle; they have not learned that.

I had an A of my own which began in Nov05, and was finally completely dead and gone by mid Jan06. Probably by Dec or so I was convinced that this was the woman for me, that I loved her and not my W and that my marriage had been a mistake, yadda yadda yadda. A lot of nonsense. It is now patently clear to me that the FOW is someone I could never have been with long-term, and that my W is the one I do and always have loved, even when I hid it from myself under the A. I said, did, and believed so many things that are obviously patently ridiculous...and now I'm eating my words.

Good luck, stay strong...try to keep yourself busy with things that make you feel better.

Well, here we are, total move out day is tomorrow. She hasn't been living here at all for the past month since I found out about the A, but tomorrow goes all her furniture with her. She still shows no empathy. Not even this phases her. Makes me wonder what it is I did to her to make her so indignant. Have to remember it's not just me, and I never made the decision to have a PA, either. Still hard though watching everything clear out. Taking all her stuff but leaving the wedding pictures. I'm making one final run at Plan A tonight but I know it's useless and really hard to act all together when someone's doing this to you. Hoping down the road my Plan A efforts will make her at least wonder about where she might have gone wrong, but she's convinced there's nothing left between us. Too many hurtful words, too many nights when we didn't say a word. Makes me wonder too much about where I could've fixed it.

Plan B starts Monday. Then move right into consultations and filing papers soon after that. Plan D is inevitable now since there seems to be no getting through to her. I feel like giving up one day and then I get new hope from somewhere the next. The hope seems to be killing me more than anything but then I hate giving up. Anyone been here before? What a mess!