The OW.
[color:"blue"] Fancy that. [/color]
It appears to me from your posts, that you respect the OW here more than your wife. I find that not only in the above comment.
Yes I do. There are many reason for this that I can go into if somebody wishes to know.
[color:"blue"] Lordy. I am putting in my petition to the powers that be for a smilie that barfs.
Classic. Straight out of the handbook....did you know TH that EVERYTHING you say about OW vs. W has been said before? You are NOT unique - your (gag) love for the OW is NOT that special...and your demeaning your wife is also straight out of the Adultry Handbook? Every-farging-thing. I told the Wookie that once when he was about as far along in the mess as you....he didn't listen to me either.
As usual, I was right...and as usual, he sees that now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Ah well, hindsight being what it is and all... [/color]
After reading Dr. Harley's above mentioned books, I saw that I failed in so many areas of our marriage too. That does NOT excuse an affair but it did help me heal in knowing what I did and what I can do to improve our marriage.
After reading “Love and Respect”, I saw what I was missing, and to be fair what I have not done for her. I have tried very hard the last 4 months to build a connection with her and to show the affection I now know she needs.
[color:"blue"] How long did you and your wife date? Was it longer than 4 months...just wondering. See, with the hurt you caused, 4 months is a droplet in the bucket of both y'alls healing. But 4 months can go A LONG way towards laying some sound foundations for both of you. [/color]
It is your job as the man who put her into this mess to work with her to find to help her do that.
I know how I can build a loving connection to my wife. This is not really the question I am asking. I get that I hurt her to the core, I really do get that part! The question I am asking myself is weather she will ever understand that marriage is a two way street.
[color:"blue"] I can answer only for me...but yes. For ME this was a wake up call. I thought because of the kind of person the Wookie was and the kind of person I was that this would never happen to me (and neither did he - he'd tell you that never in a million bajillion years would he have done this). Subsequently, we failed to bubblewrap our marriage against this type of thing.
Right now, tho, your wife is still reeling. It will take awhile for her to get to the point of deep introspection to see what steps SHE needs to take to protect herself, you and your marriage.
She probably also feels VERY alone. I didn't know one person IRL that this had happened to. I'd never even heard of it (excepting, you know, like in the history books...or to those residing on the other side of the tracks...but not to professional, IRL people). I swear on my left big toe, if I'd found MB earlier, there would be no OC#2 - tho, the little ankle biter has made the journey much more fulfilling. [/color]
Right now, why should she trust you to keep her and the children's hearts safe?
I know you do not know me, only the short things I have written here. I love my boys.
I do try to show them the patience that my father never had for me. That sometimes even the W doesn’t show. I know it seems like all I am focus on is the D. I know if I get a divorce, I will still have the boys in my life. It is very likely that I would at some point in the near future even get full custody.
[color:"blue"] I know you don't get this. I know rationally you THINK you've done so well by your little men. But Bubs! Every second you spent with the OW was a direct assault to their world. Every milisecond spent with her was a drop of acid rain on the foundation of their lives.
I know you think you've done well sheltering them from this...you probably even tell yourself that this is about you, OW and your W...but because the ARE YOU AND YOUR WIFE, little bits of mini mes all rolled up into new and exciting individuals, how could it be anything BUT about them? Do you see? Can't you see? They WILL take this personally. You can bank on it. [/color]
I do get the sense though, from reading what you have posted that there is still some justifcations in your thinking.
I will take the heat for the physical act of the A. But we both own the breakdown of the M. I know where I lacked in the affection department, I know where I lacked in the romance area.
[color:"blue"]HNHN (His Needs/Her Needs)...it REALLY helped the Wookie and I pinpoint where we need to lift each other up. [/color]
In fact i kind of sense you dont really want to be there at all. The fact that she decided to not kick you to the curb might have put a crimp in your plans of getting out of the marriage. Did you think that by telling her, she would then make the decision to end the marraige and then you wouldnt have to?
YES, at time I do not want to be there. YES, it did put a crimp in my plans.
Every time I have left the house she has pleaded with me to stay. Once I was told I could leave “guilt free”. As you can guess, I did.
The next day the W calls and says “what about your promises”. I don’t want to fail my family any more than I have. But guilt trips alone are not enough to keep us together.
I need to see some change on her side as well.
[color:"blue"] Has your wife had any MEDICAL help? This was devestating for me. Unfortunately, the Wookie's own guilt and grief were such that he could not help me get help for myself. The turning point for me was when I broke down in the doctor's office and spilled it. The doc got me on anti-d's (am off now), and OMGoodness! I could now DEAL with my feelings without turning into a puddle. I could DEAL with the Wookie, I could DEAL with the children. I could make decisions again (beyond what to have for lunch).
Think of depression as a drug. Your brain gets used to firing certain stress chemicals. Even once the stress is removed, the brain's been doing it so long it can't shut it off by itself anymore (think Fight or Flight times a billion). Anti depressants help the brain put a damper on the firings.
In order for your wife to make the changes you need, perhaps she needs help. It would have been a very well recieved kindness had the Wookie noticed the circles I was running in and helped me. Unfortunately, he couldn't even help himself at the time. [/color]
Working on the ages of your children, it seems your affair started when your wife was mid term with your 2nd child. You have said that she didnt listen to you, she wasnt there for you and OW was. You wanted someone to listen to your dreams and beleive in them with you. I dont mean to sound harsh but do you have any idea how childish that sounds?
The D is 3 moths younger than my second son. The A started before I knew the W was PG.
Is it really childish to want to share your inner most feeling with your spouse?
Do women really think men are so big and strong that we can deal with anything and that we don’t need our wives to support us? That us big strong men can do it all alone?
I wanted intimacy with the W. I needed it as much as she did. For the way we were to each other, I am surprised that she didn’t either.
[color:"blue"] This is again where HNHN would help you both. [/color]
You are to be congratulated though for reaching out and seeking help. If you really are serious in wanting to rebuild with your wife you are in the right place. There are alot of people here who are more than willing to assist.
If however you are looking for approval for leaving your wife becuase she hasnt thrown her arms around the oc, then you will not find that here.
I don’t expect at this point that she “Love” the OC. Only to acknowledge that I have a right to have feelings for this child like I do my Sons. That this little girl is just that, a little girl. It is not her fault she is here. The D also deserves to know that she is loved.
[color:"blue"]Perhaps your wife will realize this is not the baby's fault. I did. Most do...even the ones with NC.
Right now, she is doing her darndest to protect what she knows and loves, her family. Do you begrudge her that?
If you do, shame on you.
[/color]
Finally, i would suggest that you tell your wife about this site and see if she would be interested in joining. This will be a very lonely road for her. I am sure she could use the support.
I may do that. I may even give some of you her direct email address. I see how this could be of value to her.
[color:"blue"] niosgirlatyahoodotcom She needs to know she's not by herself....that there are people who understand, and that people survive this pain. [/color]
You have lied to your wife for years, betrayed her and ignored your children with her to have an affair, and hide the truth of who you really are....
Yes I lied to the wife; no I did not ignore the children. I think you may have me confused with somebody else. I never once got a complaint from the wife about serious lack of time with the boys. I was home by 6:30 – 7pm every night and home on weekends.
If you are really interested, I can explain how this was done.
[color:"blue"] Not interested. But refer to my post regarding your young'uns above. Doesn't matter how you justify it. You STOLE from the very people you were entrusted with to protect. You GAVE those stollen moments to someone who IS NOT YOUR FAMILY (no matter what your pillowtalk was/is). [/color]
Where in the heck is your compassion for her? She trusted you and you are a liar who seems to care little for his wife and family. Your swipes are passive aggressive and childish, might I even say other womanish?
Well Lynn, if it makes you feel better to attack my masculinity, then so be it.
I will survive it.
I have already addressed the childish issue.
As far as compassion: I knew what I was doing was wrong, and yes I felt very bad.
It got so bad that I finally did tell the W. As arrogant as this may sound, I could have played the hoax for many years. I could have paid the CS without detection. I wanted the wife to have a chance to exercise her power. I seem to have made all the other choices.
[color:"blue"] Geez. I think you have the same beat up copy of the handbook the Wookie used. Must be stained with the tears of a thousand families now.
Wah-wah. "I want the wife to make choices..." Blah.
Please understand that at this point in road she may very well be unable to make any choices.
I'm trying to tell you...dunno if it's working...YOU'VE been dealing with this for years...YEARS, and you are expecting your wife to MAKE CHOICES knee jerk almost....AFTER her world as she knows it ENDED - BAM! And all she can see is nuclear waste for MILES.
I dunno if I'm 'splain' this right. (sigh)[/color]
You are putting the oc above everyone? Fine, then divorce your poor suffering wife and let her find a man who will respect her and care for her and YOUR other children, since you obviously don't care enough. Afterall, your children with your wife are innocent too. Nice of you to rip their family apart all for one.
As I see it, I have only asked that she be acknowledged and that her bothers and I can know her. I have seen from the posts that some women know quickly that they can separate the OC for the act that got her here.
“Afterall, your children with your wife are innocent too.”
The children I will agree, the W, well, I already covered that.
[color:"blue"] The wife IS innocent. Whether you agree or not. The H-bomb was pushed by YOUR finger alone. YOU made choices for your life and hers without her knowledge. BAM!
Waste and destruction by your hand alone.
Your wife and ALL the kids are the innocents. If you ever face that, and acknowledge that...THEN you will be on the right path to save them (and your marriage). [/color]
Where and how are you taking any responsiblity here? You blame your wife left and right, and you say your parents wonder why you haven't divorced your wife??? Nice set they are, do they not honor family at all? Hmmmm.
I am not prepard to write a book about the W and I as a couple. All I can say is that if you have a son, think of a few women that you would hope they wouldn’t end up with.
If they did, then you may wish that somehow they could find happiness in God, themselves or with someone else.
[color:"blue"] Since YOU brought God into this (because I was wondering if you believed).
You chose her. YOUR responsibility. Your responsibility to GOD, since you married her.
Also, as a mom I would NEVER condone actions by my sons that would send their souls to h3ll. Nice mum and dad you have. "Hey Bubs, we love you so much that it's okay with us if you go to h3ll for sleeping with an OW, as long as it makes you happy." They probably are nice. It's just a very, very WRONG and irresponsible and selfish way to think.
The OW in my sitch has the same outlook. It saddens me.
Oh, and the same goes for your OW and you. Love does NOT send each other to h3ll. Ever. If you love someone, you do your darndest to save them from such a fate.[/color]
You say your wife is happy, but YOU feel neglected and disprespected? Funny, You are the one who had negelected your wife and kids and shown her nothing but disprespect with you whining about the ow/oc. What about you is there to respect?????
God command women to respect their husband weather they deserve it or not!
God also command men to cherish there wife weather they deserve it or not!
“I never said I was politically correct, It’s a bitter pill to swallow for a lot of women these days.”
I am trying my best to abide by that command.
Is it so hard to believe that I want to share my deepest fears/hopes about my child with my W?
[color:"blue"] Right now, maybe. Later, if you prove yourself trustworthy...no. Poja-ing also opens the doors to MUCH communication. [/color]
You go to counseling and the one YOU say was good, all you quote is the remark about "divorce happens" as if that counselor was a good one. THEN you whine about the other one who says marriage above all else. ALL you see is that will EMBOLDEN THE WIFE TO TAKE A HARDER STANCE????? Can you even be for real????????????
Yes I am real weather you like me or not and I too have feelings. A point some of the poster seem to forget. I disagreed with the preacher’s stand that I should pay CS and have the D go way. That maybe the OW could “find” a father for this child.
I was open to that idea at one point, but as I got to know the OC, I just couldn’t stomach the thought. The W can never completely take the boys away from me. Are all divorced men with children guilty of abandoning their children? (I mean the one's where they decided to leave.)
[color:"blue"] Neither can the OW. The contact door swings both ways. [/color]
Your wife has been hurt terribly by a person she thought she could trust.
Yes, I know I screwed up.
[color:"blue"] Good. I AM sorry for your hurt. I understand it, too...if that's worth anything...for a BW to understand the WH's hurt.... [/color]
Personally, after reading your drivel, I would LOVE to call your wife and help HER. She needs to stand up and fight for what SHE will put up with in HER LIFE. Until you grow some balls and really work at gaining her trust back and listening to HER pain, and put HER needs above all others, and yes, this means the oc, you are not worth being married to.
Well, I have already addresses the attack on masculinity issues.
I get the feeling that most women here REALLY DO BELIVE THAT THEY ARE MORE INNOCENT that the OC. I suggest you take a long hard look as to why the relationship broke down so bad. I have known a lot on men who have cheated. Most were with women that were not more attractive than their W. Nor were they better in “other ways”.
Most of these dumb men were looking for someone to stroke their ego. Me included.
We also have a common trait that we didn’t really know “how to make our W happy”.
I know I did a lousy job of showing affection. It’s not that I did it on purpose, I JUST DIDN’T KNOW HOW IMPORTANT IT WAS.
[color:"blue"] First off, I believe the OC are innocents...just like the rest of the family were not given a choice in this matter, neither was the OC....poor baby can't control which chute she slid out of, could she? Nope.
Good that you see how lousy you WERE. How lousy are NOT now? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Every day that you do something trustworthy, every kindness you show, everytime you are considerate...it counts.
A very wise man here told me once, "You love what you nurture." What and how much are you nurturing right now? Are you only nurturing you and your wounds, are you nurturing the OW, are you nurturing your wife...are you nurturing your LOVE FOR YOUR WIFE? Because nurturing your wife is different than nurturing the love you have for her.
Think Bubs. Take stock of your garden. What are you tending to? What might need some weeding? [/color]
Sometimes I wonder if you are just an ow pretending....it is all so full of hate to the wife, disrespectfull to the children of the marriage, and totally accomodating to the ow/oc.
Well some here think I am acting as a woman :-)
I don’t hate the W. I just don’t get where she is coming from sometimes when it comes to the OC.
[color:"blue"] I do. It's called terror. [/color]
I will address the conditions of CS and visitation in other questions.
MOST men are disgusted with the hurt and harm they have done to their families and aggressively protect them. YOU don't do that at all.
I think you have me confused with someone else.
[color:"blue"] 'Snot that Bubs. Sometimes this media doesn't project the intent as well as we'd like.
Capice? [/color]
So, go be with the ow, and the oc. Let your wife find a man who will cherish her and protect her from those who would do her harm, and to help her raise your children.
I spent a lot of time thinking about that subject. About her finding someone new.
Like I said in other post, I fully expected her to give me the boot.
The W wants to work this out. I owe it to her to try despite my feelings.
[color:"blue"] You owe it to her not to try, but to do, Padawan. [/color]
Staying is going to be hard work and patience for you, so you need to be sure you love your wife more than anything. Including OC, for now.
God commands us to stay with our wives. I know this will rub a lot of you the wrong way. How can I believe in God and do what I did. I can only tell you that if it where not for my faith in God and trying to “do the right thing” I would be with the other woman.
[color:"blue"] Good. You have a smidge o'morals. You need to give it to God. Bet you my left big toe you've felt pulled in two directions so bad you feel like Stretch Armstrong w/out the clear red goo in the middle....
God will help you see your path. But you have to ask. He also makes the walk easier. I'd say ask the Wookie...but he's not a computer soul. I'll gladly relay any ? you have to him and get back with answers if you want.
There were those on here who though HE was a lost cause. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> On them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> [/color]
I think it is outstanding that you would come here and try to find out how to help your wife and save your marriage. There are very experienced people on this board. But it may not always be to your liking or your timetable, so be patient. Set aside your pride and sense of what is right for you and really listen to your wife. Really see her as a woman you loved and the rightful mother of your children and see if you can find compassion for her and FEEL the devastation she feels.
I am trying to find out what is normal. As you can guess, times have been rocky. The W family just wants to sweep all this under the rug. I know the W is in pain, I just don’t always know what to do or what to expect. That is why I thought I would try posting and see what happens.
[color:"blue"] She needs someone who understands. I'd lay odds on it. She needs it like the Jews needed manna during the exodus. [/color]
She will not believe that OW is really giving up her efforts to take her place and break up her family. She does not trust either of you and that will take years (sorry!) to replace.......with your best efforts at gaining the trust. 4 years is a very long time to be lied to and cheated on. She will feel like a fool.
You are correct.
[color:"blue"] Yah. But what has been done for her to allay those fears? [/color]
Do you really love your wife and your family and are ready to do anything to keep them? I hope you are, or let them go. It sounds as if you are not truly committed to that and if she doesn't do what you wish, you will leave. This is a terrible feeling for her!!! There are no good choices for her. Only the least bad ones as she sees it.
I love her as a person, we have not had that “LOVE” or much of a friendship these last 7 ½ years.
[color:"blue"] Classic. Seriously. Not trying to belittle your feelings...but ILYBNILWY is classic. Please re-read about loving what you nurture. Practice it. It's hard at first...you have to tell yourself to do it...then, it's like breathing. The air (love) is there...you said so...you just have to remember to BREATHE! [/color]
Give her time to see what she is really capable of doing. Love her and show her you will be true to her.
That’s what has been happening the last 4 months. As I have tried as much as I could.
[color:"blue"]Respectfully, and I know you feel you have, but you haven't. But TODAY, you can start.
The only thing lost is time....and God gives us what we need in that respect. He wants you to tend to her.
Lead her home to you by your example. That's what God wants you to do...I know you know it. [/color]
Please do NOT stop posting here because you might not like the responses...and I'm not going to pull my punches because of it....but here goes:
There is much to be learned here. I hope to bounce ideas off on these ladies and the few gentalmen.
I sure don’t want to keep making bad moves.
[color:"blue"] To make no move is a BAD move. You're settin' your toes in the right direction Bubs. [/color]
You are very much still ME ME ME, I I I.....dunno if you'll ever NOT be that way....but if you want ANY kind of marriage (whether it be with this wife or another) you needs to pull your head out of your bahooba and start thinking US US US, WE WE WE.
Remember, it really does take two in a relationship. I can sacrifice many things in this life, happiness being one of them. I draw the line at my children.
[color:"blue"] I don't have to remember it hon. I LIVE it. [/color]
Many of you may disagree with how I am prioritizing things. After more thought, I may come around to your thinking.
[color:"blue"] Or maybe you can come to a middle ground that is perfect for you all! Nothing is wasted by changing your life for the better, no matter what happens. [/color]
You sound EXACTLY like the Wookie used to.
So he is a gentleman and a scholar too ;-)
[color:"blue"] Gentleman? (snort) I suppose...in the sense that the rough, tough cowboys of the old west had a very definite sense of right and wrong...no matter how rough, tough and dirty they got. Scholar....(smile...melt my heart)...I dunno. He's smart, and tenacious, and kind, and loyal (now)...he's perfect for me and I adore every atom, iota and thought that makes him my Wookie-man.
See? Now you made me cry (in a good way). [/color]
You ARE welcome here. Very muchly so. Believe me, the Wookie thought our marriage was unsavable...
I sometimes feel that way too!
[color:"blue"] I know. That's why I'm talking to you Bubs. [/color]
Are you still in love with her? If so, then spare your wife...and leave.
Is it ever really that easy? Try leaving when they beg you to stay. Tell me your faith in God does not kick in or a MASSIVE wave of guilt. How do you really break your family.
[color:"blue"] If God is talking to you, listen. You don't break your family. Nuh-hunh. Nope. Bad ju-ju.
You are being told what is right, aren't you? [/color]
You have no problems accepting the OW's stipulations, irregardless of how demanding, but can't fathom your wife's discontent? You do sound as though you have more respect for the OW. Did you consider the circumstances your wife and children have been placed in? Did you understand that?
What were some of the stipulations made by the OW?
I think I have covered most of these questions above except the last.
The first 3 months I will get to see the child for about 3 hours every Saturday.
This is a get to know you phase. There will be a third party their so that I don’t have C with OW. I have the option to bring the boys if I am able.
The W is not allowed to be around the OC for fear uncivil behavior.
This is a get to know you session with D and a cooling off period for W.
The next three months, the W is allowed to come.
After that then we will have her most of the day Saturday 3 times a month.
We are not allowed to miss an appointment, or at least two in a row.
There is more but I would have to look at paperwork.
[color:"blue"] Is this legal paperwork, or something the OW had put down?
MY only problem is any contact by yourself between you and OW. It is wrong RIGHT NOW (at this point in time...maybe not later...MAYBE). It WILL (GUAR-UN-TEED) make your wife feel left out, insecure, alone, and UNSAFE! All things YOU have in your power to keep from her. Be careful of that. Be honest if it occurs, but be careful.
Love that you thought out that a 3rd party would be there. LOVE it with toe curlin' love....that is a GREAT thing IMO.
BTW: It is an offense on a grand scale for either of you to assume, conjecture or insinuate that your wife would harm or harbor ill will towards a baby. Did she drop your own kids or something? Geeze.
Also, I have found that most people...nearly everyone that is outside looking in on these situtaions have the same fear. I will say nearly every BW I've ever talked to would rather eat glass than to harm ANY child. It's the stupidest projection of, "I don't know what I'd do in a situation like that..." EVER, EVER! We are not chimps. We are humans. We do not harm babies to get them out of the way or out of jealosy. To utter "protecting my baby from the horrible jealous BW" is to insinuate she is nothing more than an animal, imo.
PAUGH! BLECH! BARF!
[/color]
If I have any sympathy, I have it for your W and your COMs...you and the OW seem to be looking for the OC, you seem to be focused on her. Let me ask you a question...how do you think your son's will feel? Because Daddy fooled around, our family is now separated? Does that matter?
Yes it does matter, why do you think I am willing to give this a try?
[color:"blue"] Not try, Padawan, you will DO or you will fail...everyone.
Enormous responsiblity you've chosen for yourself, no? [/color]
Troubled - - Yes you are to put it mildly and not just because of this issue. It's obvious given what nonsense you've written here, you don't have a flipping clue.
Well if you happen to have some wise words of wisdom, I just might listen!
[color:"blue"] (passing Bubs the megapack of Q-tips) [/color]
Your wife should kick your [censored] to the curb and let you go about your self-destructing, as that's where you're headed.
Well, I not sure why she wants me their either, but I owe it to her and God to try.
[color:"blue"] Um, dufus...have you ever thought she might actually love you??? I mean, it's the ONLY thing that kept me trying with the Wookie. [/color]
I didn't read everything on this thread yet, but read enough of your first two posts to know that anything you post after, if indeed you're showing some humbleness, will be out of the fact that you are trying to swim upstream and wish you'd started from a different place with this thread. Perhaps you'll learn something, but it's my guess not. You have ATTITUDE and not the right kind.
No, I think I started in the right place. I have been open with how I really feel. I have been accused of being full of $hit. Well, perhaps, but at least I have been open about it.
I am hear to understand what other W in the position of my W are thinking and why.
[color:"blue"] (looking around) Cest moi? Thinking? Not at that time...just trying to survive at that point in my life. Try to remember that and react with compassion instead of anger or frusteration if she's not behaving the way you'd wish....it'll go a long way, believe me! [/color]
Your needs and wants are on the back burner. Be mature enough to recognize that life is not always all about you and what feels good for you in the moment. If you are married and have children, you have an obligation and a commitment that goes way beyond what feels good to you. You thought of only yourself and now you have ruined many lives. Because of that you have made your bed and now need to do whatever to correct it.
“Your needs and wants are on the back burner.”
They were there long before the A. Like I have said before, I know having an A was wrong. I felt trapped by responsibility. I have done my best to live up to my responsibility.
[color:"blue"] Who's fault is that? If you say hers I'll laugh my a$$ off at you. HNHN. You can fix this. [/color]
Do any of the women here acknowledge that their husbands have needs too?
If so, I would like to hear about it.
[color:"blue"] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm all over Wookie's needs. He's all over mine.
Funny how once everything falls into place, how precious that what you took for granted becomes.
I would not be surprised if you and your wife feel the same way in a year or two.
It does take time, tho. No genie in a bottle for this one Bubs. [/color]
I would be curious to know how many of these ladies really think it was ALL about sex?
[color:"blue"]"Not I," said the mouse.
In fact, after speaking to my OW friends (gasp, shock, Oh MY!), it's rarely about a booty call (if it's LTA)...it might start that way for some....but the human heart is not something you can play with willy nilly and not have it get damaged.
That's one of the reasons, I'm certain, that God handed Moses those nifty rules. He did it to help us remember not to hurt ourselves.....
Did you get hurt, Bubs? Cos, I think you did....I think that you're hurt by the hurt you've caused yourself, your wife, your kids (all of 'em) and you're even taking a bit of the claim on the hurt caused to the OW.
How close am I?[/color]
What do you really think the driving force was?
[color:"blue"] I can write a disseratation. You want it? I KNOW what the driving force was. Thinking/conjecturing does not go as far as rock solid proof. [/color]
You appear to me to be trying to come out of this horrible mess you have created (for your W, your COM and your OC)as some sort of noble good guy.
Well I have never used the word “Noble”. Yes I am trying to figure out my mess. That is why I am here.
I think your first step should be to be truly honest with yourself about your feelings, motives and priorities. Stop BSing yourself! You thought only of yourself by having an A and created this mess - so try now thinking about your wife and giving her what she needs!!
OK, this will sound pretty messed up, but I will tell it anyway.
At first I thought by having an A, I could actually stand to be in my marriage. No I didn’t plan on OC arriving. Yes I know if your fly is open and you have it unwrapped, things can happen. Spare me the biology lesson. I get it! You will all be happy to know that I have since gotten fixed.
Yes I should have left. No I didn’t feel justified in leaving. Is being unhappy really enough to leave your marriage? I feel the answer is no.
I also learned that A are not a real smart idea either.
[color:"blue"] Good. All good imo. Now what's your plan? Never, ever underestimate the power of a good plan. [/color]
And your COM wont be crushed? How do you think they feel knowing that daddy did not take them into consideration but instead thought of only himself.
I know joint custody sucks, but it is better than no C at all.
Yes I know, people fall out of love, get divorced, go on to have other families. But having a A then leaving for COM to be with OC makes them feel that OC was chosen over COM and that is just wrong.
It’s all wrong. I am having a ****** of time to figure out the “right thing to do”.
[color:"blue"] Step 1: Give it to God.
Not the nanby pamby stuff. You need to get down on your knees with your bible in your hands and give it over. You'll know when enough of that is enough. You'll feel it in your marrow.
Every time you feel lost, repeat step 1.
Step 2: Tell your wife about us or help her get help for herself. She might say she doesn't need it...but she is lost right now...she couldn't find her way out of a paper bag (speaking from experience)
Step 3: HNHN and Surviving an affair. They will gitcha where you're goin'. Make an appointment at least for yourself with the Harleys. The number is up at the top o' the page somewhere. [/color]
I do wonder alot sometimes how these OC are going to feel when they grow up, how they feel knowing that their conceiption and birth caused so much pain. I have heard from adults who were born from rape, and I know the pain they have to deal with knowing about the way they was brought in to this world, and wonder if OC born from a A will fill the same way.
That shame belongs to me and the OW. There is a big difference between rape and A.
I love all my children, is it so bad to love them all equally?
[color:"blue"] No. But it IS bad that you didn't think enough of the children BEFORE this happened and spared them this.
I'm not saying your DD isn't a blessing...she is SO a blessing....and she might be the balm to the wound you and OW created in OWs life...but your selfishness DID/WILL be hard to explain to her.
For OW, since you read here and I have my suspicions as to which one you are...Thank you. I hope you stay as far away from this MM and his family as possible. I hope you find REAL love that isn't tainted and please be kind to the W and treat her with compassion. You've done a piss poor job of it so far. You, also can redeem yourself by your actions here on out. [/color]
I think your wife is an amazing person for staying with you this long. Can you imagine how emarrassing this is going to be when/if she has to introduce this litte girl to her friends and family? What is a good way to say that this girl haning around isn't a niece or a friend's daughter, but her husband's and his girlfriend's kid?
When I compare that with a little girl who feels abandon by her father and brothers, I just can’t see the two as equal. I know she will feel embrassed, but people are dealt with much harsher things in life and lived.
[color:"blue"] How nice that you've boxed this up for her. Did you wrap it and put a pretty bow on it, too?
Sorry.
That, btw, was a DJ...DO NOT MINIMIZE THE PAIN YOU'VE CAUSED. Yeah. She'll keep breathing...people can you know, even when each breath is agony. [/color]
Answer me this...keep in mind, I LIVED with someone who could be YOU so close are your statements...
Do you love your wife and want to be with HER???
Well, it depends. I don’t want to make her miserable in life. I don’t want to be miserable either. I am seeing more and more that marriage is a skill.
If we are both willing to practice the skills necessary, then yes, we can be happy.
[color:"blue"]GOOD BUBS! You first. Lead. That's why God made you the guy, and her the girl. It's in you. Open that Good Book....it'll show you the way. [/color]
Also, just an FYI, if you spout, "I'm here aren't I?" I will take off my chankla and merrily beat you about the head and neck till you pass out.
Gee, you read my mind. I can tell already your man is a great guy ;-)
[color:"blue"]Better than most - NOW.
He'd rip out his own tongue before he'd ever utter those words again, tho. They are a cop out of the worst kind. They are a placebo thrown out so that you don't have to do any REAL work. [/color]
I've a response to that one...."You can dress up a load of bull [censored], put it on a pretty silver platter and tell me it's chocolate...but I KNOW it's still bull [censored]."
There is a better answer. You need to find it...then you need to tell your wife.
See above for reply.
[color:"blue"] Got it. Replied to your reply. [/color]
Perhaps Bubs NEEDS to hear this at this point in his journey. Perhaps he needs to take this first step. Is it worth the risk to shun him if he is sincere in reaching out for help.
If he IS trolling, we have lost nothing....nothing...our words will reach someone else, sometime else.
If he isn't trolling, we are will o'the wisp off his path of self destruction.
I not sure if ‘trolling” is the same as “Flame Bait”, but I will do my best to keep a civil tone. [/quote]
[color:"blue"] That would be it. Don't worry Bubs, at this point in your life, I'm sure you've felt you have a lot in common with bait. One day, I hope you realize you are better than that. Only your actions (not words) will tell.[/color]