Todd - My fiance was killed in the Vietnam war. It was very sad. After we were notified that he died, I kept getting letters from him - for at least 2 weeks. In the last one, he asked me to send him some canned peaches. Such a small request..............

Can't remember when the war there started, but I was in highschool. I volunteered at the USO, dancing with the soldiers that were on the way to Vietnam. There were busloads and busloads.

Jen,

They were very dark days. I recall Joan Baez, a folk singer, saying that we should strum our guitars on the beach and greet the enemy with love and harmony. Yep, just before they kill you.

All the soldiers really want is to come home and be appreciated.

Todd, people know this now. That whatever the cause of the war or whatever people think of it, the people who give their all for it are worth acknowledging.

Vietnam was a hard lesson but it taught people a lot.

Threadjack -

Jen - I really hope things are going well with you. I want to hear that you are happy....

B, we are a truly recovered couple. Just go and read Idiotville. Christmas Day (today here) was a happy and wonderful family day with Rob and I working together as a well oiled team.

Infidelity is a memory - a distant memory. I feel so sad for everyone here who is still suffering. It breaks my heart.

Goodmorning to everyone on TKO,

I wish you all a very merry Christmas.

Peace and goodwill to all.

Beth.

Beth-

It's so good to hear from you again.

I hope you had a wonderful Christmas.

Peace be with you as well.

-Steph

2mhb Christmas:

WH tearily states he loves me and is attracted to me and would like to come home but is afraid...feels he has damaged me so much that I will never be able to forgive and will constantly throw his past actions back at him; also afraid of giving up his new success and $ to relocate with us only to discover that "nothing has changed and we go back to our old ways" or he "messes up and gets kicked back out"

WH says he is also afraid he will not live up to my conditions and expectations...I state I will do the best I can to be best wife but cannot make any other promises except that I will commit 100% to M if he does same

WH discovered my self-help divorce library and was "thrown"...we calmly discussed all of this and I let him know I was prepping for D as he has avoided all discussion related to future, M, R, D anything...I told him that despite the mess, I did love him but would be able to move on without him if he chooses to remain without us but would need to have NC with him to preserve my sanity...we talked about how any contact puts me back to day one and opens a fresh wound and is emotionally unhealthy...he was very understanding and apologetic...actually caught a glimpse of real remorse, shame and sorrow

WH says he wants to rush and pack everything and move back but is terrified to make the leap and says he knows what he wants but doesn't know how to get there...I listened calmly...I think I finally found peace in that it will be ok either way...it is very sad but true...it sort of was like a calmness came over me and what I had been telling myself all along I finally actually felt it...

Anyway, WH has to commit to something in the next week due to work and residence sitch...he left tonight and I smiled and said, "Well, I guess I'll find out one way or another what your decision is by next week...then I calmly told him that it would be ok if he chose not to come back...he was crying and saying he loves me...I told him that doesn't really change anything if he choses to remain WH...he agreed and left. He's called 3 times since...I know he is torn but it's all on him...

I am where Pio was a while back...I could easily go either direction...D would be much easier at this point as my children are prepped, the paperwork is prepped and I have planned everything as if it is inevitable anyway...WH even commented that he sensed that I was as ambivelent as he to commit to his coming home...we discussed that the real risk and damage would be to the kids since they are at this point he could not see them ever having to go through this again...I agreed and told him he would need to decide if we were worth the risk to fight for M, no one could make that decision for him

WH was extremely tender and affectionate past 48hrs which is unusual...my gut says he is grieving his loss and has come to terms with terminating M...when I tactfully stated this observation he tearfully denied this was the case...

He knows he is welcome back but that I will hold him to return conditions and expect 100% mutual committment to M...

I will be away for a week, not sure how much I'll be able to post but will be reading...won't be back till 2007 so Happy Happy New Year to all

2much,

I am glad you are finally starting to sense some peace. I have to warn you though that this will be a very difficult time for you as it was and is for me. I am okay with a lot of what WH says until he gets to the point where he comments that he will have to wait until next week for your decision. Why? I thought he was the one being indecisive and couldn't make up his mind and then he suddenly throws it all back on you? So it's still your fault I guess? This is why NC is and continues to be so important. He needs to stop being able to test the waters.

So he is afraid to give up $ and success for his wife and family? We all have to have our priorities I guess. I think he measures success by the wrong rule. What does it profit a man? etc. etc.

Pepperband made a comment in a thread the other day about how a panicked BS is terribly unattractive to a WS. I tend to think the opposite is also true. A resolute BS seems to be very attractive to a WS for reasons I don't understand. I think you represent the guidepost if nothing else. You are the known quantity. You are base in his game of OW tag. That's okay though. I think that is why many WS's come back to the M - fear.

The only thing I would watch out for is whether he tries to drag the kids into the equation - plays on their emotions to try to convince you. If he does that, cap him with your 9mm.

This will sound harsh.

Don't let the warm fuzzy Christmas spirit influence you.

What I keep coming back to in your case is that you WH is a serial cheater who started his cheating mere months into your marriage.

He has consistently shown his concern for himself above you & your children with this time being no different. He sees you as moving on & he's afraid for himself. I don't think fear is a good predictor of his commitment to do the necessary work to recover your M.

Don't disregard what you know about his behavior with you as well as with his many OW.

I'm sorry for the hurt this may cause you but I felt I needed to say what I saw in his words.

{{{2mhb}}}

Well I bet I'm the only one of us who spent Christmas day mixing 2 large bags of concrete by hand to make a tetherball pole.

I do have to say though that I found quite by accident a shop in Khobar that sells every single kind of bolt, screw and fastener known to mankind in every single size - both English and metric. I thought I had died and gone to heaven. I drooled on my sweatshirt. I was like Homer Simpson opening a fridge full of Duff beer. It is called Al Wabel Trading on the corner of 6th and Prince Mohd. I'm not sure but I think I may have cried tears of pure joy. I'm now planning a vacation there in the spring.

I didn't mix concrete but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

My boys are with their dad. It's quite...and lonely.

They don't want to be there all week & I don't want them to be there either. They says ex's house is boring, he's a neat freak & wants things to be too quite, plus he wouldn't take the dog because she sheds too much. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> He usually takes her when he takes the boys & they love it, plus I think it's great for them to have that continuity.

I'll have to keep myself busy. I'm one of two featured artists at the gallery in Aug. so I can use this time to get some work done.

You know those times when you get hit with the fact kids aren't with you forever? I got that this evening & it was sad, teary actually.

I wonder if ex ever feels a loss at breaking up the family. I doubt the boys are subtle about the fact they would rather spend some time here over the vacation too. Guess that's a bonus.

ex & I bought gifts together for the boys & he emailed me saying he thought it set a good example. I didn't respond...but I wanted to...in a not so nice way, I just didn't see the point in a rant.

Back to my book. I'm in my jammies, got the fire going & will have a glass of one of my favorite red wines soon. Life isn't too bad is it?

2Much - I agree with Nams. (((2Much)))

Can somebody please help? I turned on the stove to cook dinner and smoke started coming off the burner. I don't know what caused the smoke. I tried to clean it but it still smokes. What is a good way to clean the burner so that it doesn't smoke?

Let it smoke. It can't last.

It lasted too long as it turned out.

Even hard-wired smoke detectors can be unplugged. Usually what gets on burners that is flammable and remains on burners is some form of grease/oil or other long chain aliphatic hyrocarbon molecule. If it is melted plastic, either burn it off or buy new elements (cheap at the hardware store). To burn off plastic, remove the element, take it outside and use a propane torch or other really good heat source and burn away. It it was just oil or grease, nothing beats soap and water (not detergent BTW). Soaps are very interetsing chemically. They do NOT clean dirt but they are perfect for oil and the like.

How do I determine what it is?

What is it most likely to be?