I totally agree with Bigger - Pio - her being an ostrich doesn't cut it. No wonder you want a divorce. She needs to understand this. Her presence is NOT enough.

I know you aren't going to believe this but I had the strangest dream about your country last night. I swear on the Bible it's true. Strange. We were flying low and coming near it and somebody asked me if I knew what country it was because I heard two people talking about it but in their native language. When asked, I said Scotland. I was corrected. But their name for it and my name for it didn't sound anything alike. Strange.

One of the prerequisites given to gemela was that she read HNHN. She hasn't done that. I think I will bring that up today and offer that we both read it together. I have been mulling this for about a week now. I can almost hear that book calling my name. Maybe you are right. Maybe she has no idea that EN's even exist. I can't say I did before reading SAA.

FINALLY we are on the same page!!! You are getting it!!!

p.s. the screen name change was at Todd's request. I tend to agree. I know I run the risk of offending lemonman. See? there was a plus side <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

as long as I don't have to call you gilbert grape.

Why have you not enforced your boundary before now? She does need to read HNHN and reading it together would be great.

Why don't you get the MB Audio home study course? It waslk you through it chapter by chapter with exercises for you to do and then PLANS to actually meet the needs.

Highly recommended.

You can call me Ray...or you can call me Jay...or you can call me R.J. ...or you can call me R.J Johnson Jr....But youz doesn't has to call me Johnson.

BigK,

Do you want to know what my immediate reaction was when I read this? Divorce. Because what you describe is something that could be supplied by any of about a billion women on this planet. Just because gemela has seniority in the position doesn't mean she is the most highly qualified for the job. I am truly hesitant to break it down as you describe because, if I do, I begin to ask myself where is the value added? What does gemela bring to the table that the other 999,999,999 women don't. What you are saying is I might as well try to enjoy the M because gemela is being a woman. What I am searching my soul for is what gemela does or can offer that puts her at the top of the list. She used to be there. She doesn't seem concerned about trying to get there again. She assumes that, since we are married, she has the job by default. Not so. A complete organizational change is not out of the question here. If her quarterly performance indicators don't show improvement, we may have to downsize.

Well yes indeed.

But the reason most people even attempt recovery is because of their children.

Children alone are a poor reason for staying in a loveless marriage but are a powerful reason for trying to recover a wonderful loving passionate marriage.

But G does have to shift her [censored] into gear. And she needs to be clear on what that looks like to you.

And yes there are 9999999999 chicks on the plannet, give or take, but your daughters only call one chick mommy.

Okay being mom is an asset. But if mom just let's her [censored] set around hoping this will all magically become great, I can't accept that.

I will say though that I am very glad you have plainly stated that the reason most people attempt recovery is for the kids. I totally agree. When I started this process, I did so not for the kids but because I loved gemela. Now my motivation has changed. Now I do it for the kids. Problem is gemela wants time. Okay it takes time. But she pretty has it marked on her calendar that on Jan. 26th, 2011, we will have a happy marriage. That's because she has decided it will take five years. I look at that and say she might be right or she might be wrong but I certainly don't want to wait four more years to learn the answer.

I guess it gets down to me believing that we need to work on recovery to achieve recovery while she thinks sitting idly by will achieve the result. One of us is wrong. I'll think about the video course. I can't do that any time soon. Getting videos sent to Saudi is virtually impossible.

It's not video - it's audio

Comes with workbooks etc.

It's not the time that does it, it's what you do with the time.

Gemela must actively engage in recovery. Working through HNHN and both of you answering the questions at the end of each chapter and discussing them will help.

Absolutely Gemela must be active in recovery.

Audio is even worse than video if you can believe that. Language problem. At least with video, the minitry of information can put them in their fast play machines and watch them at 5x speed. Audio? They just assume the worst and bin it.

I will talk to gemela tonight and explain about HNHN and what I want her to do. If I have another hostile takeover attempt, I will definitely downsize. Already have the poison pill ready.

sounds like a plan. maybe i can help you with an internet d/l

I can download without much problem as long as nothing gets trapped by the proxy server. Just putting the wrong keyword in a filename is enough to get caught. I won't be surprised if some day this site gets blocked. I can no longer go to the SI site. Proxy blocks it.

WOW

ACLU Sues to Remove Differential Calculus from Curriculum

Washington: The American Civil Liberties Union is suing the US Government to have differential calculus removed from all curriculums and is demanding that only integral calculus be taught henceforth. ACLU attornies claim that it is unconstitutional to differentiate X with respect to Y as it is prejudicial to both parties. The ACLU is also preparing a class action lawsuit on behalf of both X and Y claiming unspecified damages. The ACLU states that once you start differentiating X with respect to Y, you embark on an instantaneous slope from which there is no return. In court documents, the ACLU also claims that X and Y should be removed from Algebra as well since they intrinsically imply gender bias but no replacement variable names have been recommended. In addition to punitive damages, the ACLU demands that only integral calculus be taught as higher math so that X and Y can function together peacefully under one curve. Calls for comment to the Attorney General's office have not been returned.

Gilbert,awful name BTW, do you think you may be afraid that if you articulate your ENs & G is still unable to meet them in a way that brings love for her back to you, you'll then have nothing left to try?

Also, ex said exactly what you did about meeting ENs. Why couldn't anyone, not just me, meet what ever his needs happened to be then he'd be in love with them. I tried to explain he would be falling BACK in love with me, that we had a head start because we were, at one time, in love. Didn't make a dent. His question has validity.

Some people understand they need to step up & are willing to do so, others just don't want to work that hard. Still others are unable to get the love back after betrayal, some see a future with a person they know they don't want to be with for whatever combination of reason.

The Harley plan is a great one but it does require work from both people & then there are a host of variables that play into its success.

nams,

I'm just talking out loud here and I am not saying this has anything to do with my plans but the Harley logic is a two-edged sword. His explanation of how affairs develop equally applies to how a BS could detach from a WS. If we accept the premise that the relationship is based solely on the love bank balance determined by met EN's and we accept that affairs can happen because virtually anyone can potentially meet EN's, then a BS can look at a WS and ask "why stay with you?". BK is right - you do it for the kids. There is no other compelling motivation. Okay yes you may be able to fall back in love with the WS. But since you buy the Harley plan hook, line and sinker, you now understand that the WS is nobody special - they are replaceable. You don't love them any more. You could love them again - but you could also love a different person. The A and its aftermath destroys the WS's love bank balance to the BS.

Gemela says she won't have another affair because she doesn't want to go through all this again. Guess what? I don't either. The simplest solution to guarantee that is D. I told her that if she remains in an unhappy M, she will have another A. She did it once - she'll do it again because she found that it was the only thing that gave her pleasure. So there must be something more to add to the equation. There must be an active attempt at recovery. Just trying to pretend it will all be forgotten with time is not a good plan.

Gilbert......Have you ever consider that you simply dont love Gemela anymore? IT Does not matter what she does NOW, you will still feel uneasy and unhappy. Your love bank is completely in ZERo!!!

Well...the thought has crossed my mind. Is that reason for D? Or do I try the MB approach to try to fall in love again? Honestly I could go either way.

GG- I think you had given your marriage enough time to know what YOu really want to do. If you think staying in a marriage void of love, is good for YOU,Gemela or your little girls , then stay in it!! otherwise Get divorce . Your daughters are very young to see their parents indiferent to one another, they need to see love between you two to grow up secure and happy and with enough insight to choose the right man when is their time to do so.

From Penalty Kill

Gilbert, I have been following your situation since your name was tracionado, and I posted to you early on. You've certainly been through a lot since you began posting here.
(Disclaimer: I am a FWW, in recovery for 18 months, haven't seen OM in years. So, if any of this bothers you, feel free to just skip the rest, I'll certainly understand, no problem.)

I find it unbelievable that your W won't pick up a freakin book. I don't blame you for feeling discouraged about that; it's as though she's in denial. In our recovery, I have been the one to purchase every book I could find. Some were better than others. I would leave them lying around and my H would read them and we would discuss.

Have you told her that you need her to take specific steps or the marriage is through? You are at the point of indifference now, whereas before you were understandably angry. Personally I think that indifference is the opposite of love. You said that you are not sure what your needs are....perhaps you could come up with a want?

Starting with "I want you to read these books and for us to discuss them".

Let me say that I am of the opinion that children are much better off with two parents, as long as there is no abuse or ongoing affair. And your girls are so young still. I would really give it a try to see if the two of you could fall in love again. But your W is going to have to make more of an effort than simply to be present, she will have to be proactive. Does she understand that this is her last chance?

Take care.