Ahhh yes, “resentment”,

It is the badge of pride that fuels foolish and reckless behavior. No matter how much we try to shake it, it pops up at the most inappropriate times to feed our anger and bitterness towards those that hurt us. As JustLearning has often pointed out, resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die. It will eat you up and spit you out; it will never let you rest.

That describes the finer points of resentment.

I’m afraid that I cannot buy into your position that the kindest thing to do would be to let your wife go because of your fear that you can never deal with lingering resentment. It will matter little if she stays or goes as resentment requires no active participants other then yourself.

You describe your wife as cold-hearted in her betrayal. This is no news alert but my wife was a lying bit-ch that deserved NOTHING. I wanted to push her face in mud and leave her lying naked in the rain. At one point I felt that I could never rest until I left her with nothing to her name, let her useless boyfriends pay her way. She was a cake-eater and self-centered loser that pretended that she was compassionate but had no idea what the word really meant. Resentment? Just a tiny bit. The truth be known, I still got a bit of it; I couldn’t write those words if I didn’t have a little left.

In between those feelings I desperately wanted to make sense of what had happened. I loved my wife and I was crushed. I had a fear that my pride and resentment would place me in an untenable situation. It was time to discover the truth of things. I WANTED THE TRUTH. With the help of the fine folks in these forums and some solid marriage counseling (we used Steve Harley) I was forced to see the truth of affairs and what they really meant, especially with a wife who desperately desired to save her marriage.

We are now nearly two years past those lonely days. I guess you could say we are recovered, but I don’t think that way at all. I don’t feel we have recovered anything. It seems to me what we have is new, it looks new and it feels new. Both my wife and I are aware of aspects of life and love that we never knew existed. We have sensitivities that were never there. We understand how fragile this whole business is and we are protective of it. It is rare and of great value. It is a bit melancholy to think that this door only became assessable through the hurtful betrayal of an affair.

So do I trust my wife? You mentioned that you were afraid to trust your wife again. Let me answer that question by saying that I am all but completely and utterly confident that my wife is committed to me. I see this in the way we interact every day, but to directly answer the question, I must say the answer is NO, I do not trust her. If I see something that could be potentially suspicious then I look a bit deeper. I have no fear or embarrassment to ask any question to relieve any suspicion that might be growing inside. In any event, I am wise to the ways of affairs, my wife could NEVER again engage in such activity without me knowing in fairly short order. We still have work to do but all in all, we are both very happy.

It would be a shame if irrational behaviors kept you and your wife from enjoying a new start especially when you consider the investment you have already made. Things that are broken can sometimes be fixed. Do not be so ready to deny yourself such opportunity.

Mr. G

Why do things have to be so hard? Last night my W told me she went to see a psychic, something that we'd discussed and I wasn't too fond of it. Not that this really bothers me, but what really gets to me is that we'd talked about what she'd done that day and she didn't mention that she did this. What if she really slept with the OM again? Why did she hide this information? She said she was waiting for the right moment...Sure, just like she was waiting for the right moment to tell me she was having an A before I found out. What happened to POJA? What happened to radical honesty?

She tells me she wants to work on this marriage, yet she's sending me all these confusing signals.

I told her that I was really mad at this (the fact that 1) she lied about where she spent her time and 2) didn't respect me enough to follow my wishes). And now I feel like I'm back to day 0... wondering if she slept again with the OM or if she really just went to see a psychic.

Question to BS's, did your FWS begin radical honestly quickly? Or was it a rough road to get your FWS to be hones t about their time/activities? I ask because every day I feel less and less motivated to work on this if she's not going to be honest and not going to follow POJA.

Otilleb--

I've read through most of this thread and we are in the same boat regarding trust of our wives.

What did your wife hope to get from a psychic? You mentioned in another post (I think) that your wife was religious. She has no business getting advice on her marriage, life or toenail polish from a psychic.

It was a direct violation of POJA if she knew (clearly knew) you were not in favor of her going.

As to how to verify -- ask to see a receipt for the visit or cash withdrawal (if she used cash). Ask her which psychic and go back there with her to verify. If she is telling the truth she may resist but will comply. If her story is the least little bit false, she'll probably try and change the facts quickly and then you'll have reason to chuck the whole thing as crap.

My wife and I are working on POJA and radical honesty. Last week I finally got her to start answering direct questions about what her and OM did. It will take time and honestly, POJA and radical honesty are two things that are hard to establish at anytime in a marriage, but extremely hard when one spouse has had an affair. The wayward spouse views the policies as directed against them and they tend to push back (naturally). You have to demonstrate that you are overly willing to apply the same rules to your life.



I'm not sure I'm with you in this thought. This is a marriage, dude. She doesn't "follow" you. You walk side by side. I know some people are raised that the man rules and the woman obeys, but you need to show her respect by not viewing your preferences as wishes for her to fulfill. She was wrong (in my opinion) to go to a psychic and doubly wrong if the two of you hadn't agreed to it. But she's not following you around -- you are walking side-by-side.

I know your struggle. I'm in the same one myself. Honesty and trust are not even on my radar scope most of the time.

I can tell you from recovery from my wife's first affair that it will get better over time.

Hi Artor,

You are right, I didn't mean it to sound that way. What I meant was that she broke an agreement we had. Just like she broke the commitment agreement to not sleep with other people. The fact that she went to the psychic doesn't really matter; she'll have to deal with it later with God. But the fact that we had an agreement and she broke it and only told me 2 days later is what gets to me. I told her that if she's going to break an agreement with this to tell me BEFORE it happens, or if I'm not available IMMEDIATELY after it happens. She "agreed".

Yesterday, less than 24 hrs after this argument she again lied to me 6 times!!!! In the morning she'd told me that she had to go to work (she's working from home) to meet someone from HR. HR is in a different bldg where she normally works from. I asked her if she had to go to her old bldg and she said no. So I asked her if she was just going to the HR building and then come back and she said yes.

While she was at the HR meeting, I was looking through her work email to make sure nothing funky was going on. I then noticed that her 'unread' email was becoming 'read'. She was reading her email! She was not with the HR guy!! To make sure, I sent her three emails asking her to call me immediately after she received these emails (which she didn't).

She called me about 5 mins after the last email I sent. She told me she was just now leaving the meeting with the HR guy. It then went like this:

- Did you go to your computer?
- No
- Have you read your emails?
- No
- Have you read the emails I sent you?
- No
- So how are your emails switching between 'unread' to 'read'
- I don't know, that's very scary, I have no idea what's going on.

At which point I told her what I'd been doing, she then confessed that she went to her building before and after the meeting with the HR guy and had lied to me about it. I then asked her to move out. She's definitely not willing to put any effort into this.

That's rough, man.

My wife has been going through much the same. My theory is that she is pushing against the new boundaries that radical honesty and transparency demand she honor.

She once, during a heated discussion regarding her emotional affair, stated that she viewed it as her rebellion against my "snooping". I think that most of her flirting and actions that drive me crazy are her way of trying to claim some space for herself.

What I think your wife (and my wife) is failing to realize is that the more she strains against the boundaries YOU BOTH AGREED TO (emphasis for her, not you), the more restrictive they appear.

Sort of like my wife's hampster-dog (Yorkie). We have a little pen outside that we put her in to do her business. About 10' x 10' -- pretty spacious for a Yorkie. It spends all its time running around the perimiter jumping at the fence instead of enjoyinging the space in the middle where the grass is green because she never uses it.

If our wives could stop pushing at the new boundaries (jumping at the fence) that their wayward behavior requires and start enjoying the good life that can be had inside the boundaries, we'd all be a lot happier.

I wish you luck.

This is an interesting analogy, Artor...and I'm sure you meant it with good intentions...

But a dog in cage?

Come...on...don't you think your wife might find that a wee bit offensive?

It also doesn't paint a pretty picture of marriage...

Sorry for the quick analogy, but the intention was good.

I did not mean for anyone to equate the wayward spouse with a dog or the pen as a cage. You could easily substitute a child in a playpen.

The point is that the cage/fence/playpen is there for a reason. In the case of the dog it's because it has run away in the past and can't stay in its own yard. In the case of the child it is to keep them from getting in trouble.

For a wayward spouse, the boundaries (No Contact, Transparency, Radical Honesty, etc) are there for a reason -- because the wayward spouse has demonstrated that they can't "stay in their own yard" and "out of trouble". Like the dog or child, the wayward spouse resents these boundaries sometimes and become pre-occupied with pushing on them or trying to get around them or move them. This can be continued "secret" contact, little white lies about where they were, web sites visited, etc. Things that, by themselves, aren't egregious, but when bunched together over time show a pattern of not committing to recovery.

But I don't place the Betrayed Spouse outside the same cage/yard/playpen. They, if they want to work on the marriage, have to play within the same boundaries. Imagine two dogs in the yard, or two kids in the playpen. The betrayed spouse is in the center enjoying the shade and cool grass (dog) or toys (child) while the wayward spouse is jumping at the fence (dog) or trying to climb out of the playpen (child).

Substitute whatever objects you want, but I believe the message is the same:

1. There are boundaries in a marriage for the safety of both partners and to keep them from getting into trouble.

2. Part of recovery after an affair by one partner usually involves re-inforcing those boundaries or shrinking them a little.

3. The Betrayed Spouse should live within the same boundaries as imposed on the Wayward Spouse.

4. In their fog, many Wayward Spouses try to test the boundaries and resent them as too restrictive when they are actually there to protect the marriage.

5. Instead of resenting the boundaries, the Wayward Spouse should be staying in the center of the boundaries (as far from the edges as possible) with the Betrayed Spouse so they can reconnect and rebuild their relationship.

I apologize if my use of a dog as an object lesson offended you or any wayward spouse out there.