Please don't bash me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

One big part of the MB plan is the NC letter written by the WS and sent to the OP.

How many M's have recovered here without one?

If so, how did the WS make the BS feel safe and gain your trust again?


Thanks so much!

Kim

I don't know of any that have recovered where the WS is not really sincere about keeping no contact. And since the letter is a demonstration of one's true intention it usually follows that no sincerity equates to no possible recovery.

The last time he wanted to come back he refused to send a no contact letter. I suggested it was because he was NOT DONE with his affair. And sure enough, you found out later that he was not.

Is he insisting you help him hide his affair again in order for him to come back? What are his other conditions for you?

Hi, FWH and I didn't do a NC letter or call. I feel like we are moving into recovery. FWH told me when he saw OW and she called. I made it a point to let FWH KNOW that I wanted no contact. I can't say that I feel safe and I definitily don't trust him yet, but I feel safer than I did, and I'm working on the trust. As far as what he's doing, he's letting me know where he's going, when he's coming home, and who he's with. I'm not sure what it's going to take to feel complete with him again, but we're working on it. I felt secure enough to let him go to a friend of our house without me yesterday. WHen he came home, he told me about the conversation, and I know I could call them if I wanted too.

Mel -

He hasn't asked to come back again......I am just curious. He has only said today in a VM that he wants to do things as a family again. That's it.

I am staying in Plan B and not negotiating or responding to him at all.

You are right though - the last time he "wanted to talk about what it would take" I sent the note stating I would talk when he could send a NC letter. Then he "ran".

He said also that he hasn't spoken to OW in months.

I really do want to hear if others recovered w/o the NC letter and how that was handled.

Kim

NC - So it appears that your H was ready to end the A soon after you discovered the A.

Mine was not.......This is why I believe that getting the NC letter in my sitch is pretty important.

Thanks & good luck with your recovery!

Kim

I couldn't get my H to send a NC letter. He claimed that he had NC for 2 months when I accidently found out thru emails. He thought it would stir up things again, if he contacted OW and was also afraid of her husband and getting in the middle of a divorce. I have never found any evidence of contact in the 8 months since my D Day, but I have never felt good about his reason for not sending a NC letter.

Every time I get upset about anything, that is one of the first things I complain about to him. "You never sent the NC letter!" He is sick of hearing it, but still hasn't done anything about it.

If I had the slightest reason to doubt him at this stage, I would still insist on it. Probably it would do no good, he is stubborn and wouldn't do it.

Kim, the last time I am talking about is when you were negotiating his return and he balked on this nc letter issue. You were even offering to relax that condition with a phone call and he STILL lost interest and gave up. He wasn't willing to do anything Steve Harley asked him to do - nothing. And you found out later he was in contact with the OW and most likely the reason he wouldn't send the letter is because he was NOT DONE with his affair.

If that was his reason in the past, why would it not be the reason NOW?

kim, if he is not willing to meet any condition in your Plan B letter, then he is not ready to come back, period. That should tell you that he doesn't WANT it bad enough to even take a basic step.

If he hasn't "spoken to the OW for months" then why in the world would that possibly be an issue? I will tell you why. It is because he is still pursuing her and is probably still seeing her. The OMW told you he thinks they are seeing each other in the morning before work.

Getting a concensus of others that allowed their WS' to dictate the terms of their return in Plan B is not going to tell you much. What matters is how committed your H is to committment. And he won't even take the first step.

When my H was serious about Recovery and NC, the letter was NO BIG DEAL to him.

So what would be the logical reason for it not to be done?

And it will be NO BIG DEAL to her WS when he is truly ready.


This means that Plan B is working! This is not a sign that you should relax your conditions and throw away your leverage when you have him ALMOST to the goal. But rather, an indication that you HOLD YOUR GROUND and use your leverage to get him to the goal line.

Don't throw away your leverage while you still have it, Kim, but BEFORE you have what you want and need: the END OF THE AFFAIR.

.

Mel - WH asked about doing a phone call as a NC letter & I did tell him no at that point. Steve Harley said he might consider it, but I have not offered it back up to WH again.

I know, WH can't even offer me a written plan of any sort.

I am not saying that I am going to drop my conditions. OWH's had no proof of them meeting.......he was suspicious. I think it has been 3 months since that phone call.....

Mimi - what if the A is and has been over. Time passes....more time passes..... and even more time......there has been nc for 6 months or longer.(I'm not saying there has been in my sitch, just what IF) Is a NC letter still mandatory?

Kim

If the affair is really over, then why won't he send the letter?

Everything in your Plan B letter is mandatory.

And Kim, HOW would you know that there has been "no contact for 6 months?" On the word of a liar? huh?

Yes! The NC Letter is symbolic. It's like taking Communion or getting Baptized if you are a Christian. It's a testimony of the WS' sincerity and commitment to the marriage.

Why question the need for the NC Letter?

Plus, Steve told me to assume continued contact unless I had evidence to the contrary. The NC Letter would be one form of evidence. Right?

The addiction to the OP is so strong that all means available should be taken to maintain and prevent contact.

I'm holding my ground Melody. It's so darned hard hearing him say those things on the vm. Which I know is why I shouldn't listen to them. But in a way, hearing him say those things in a sincere voice I remember from my H and not a WH gives me a deposit in my LB for him. It makes me want to stick to Plan B and endure through this mess.

Kim

Exactly what Steve discussed with WH and I a few months ago........when we had our last session.



NC letter is evidence. You're right. Otherwise, I just "trust" him??? HA!
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I truly think that WH is embearassed. Embarassed that OW has dumped him. Embarassed that he has to "stoop" to writing a "goodbye" letter to someone that wants nothing to do with him. I guess I can't help him with that. That is something he is going to have to work through on his own?

He should be more embarassed that he had an Affair.

Thanks Mel & Mimi!

Kim

Doesn't it make you want to get your REAL HUSBAND back? Your only hope of that is to take every step to ensure that his affair is ended and he is committed to the marriage. If he will not even take those steps, then you know he is not ready. However, if you relax your conditions to ACCOMMODATE his lack of committment, that is exactly what you will get: A LACK OF COMMITTMENT.

And not only will you get that, you will have forfeited any and ALL leverage that you have. Right now you have the leverage, Kim.

I, too, am very sorry you are listening to his voicemails, because it DEFEATS THE PURPOSE of Plan B. He continually drags you back into his morass with fools gold and keeps you in a state of grief and turmoil. Look at the peace you experience when you really do stay dark?

Then why wasn't he too "embarrassed" to call her on the phone WITHOUT THE OWH KNOWING, as he wanted? Kim, it makes no sense to me that he would be embarrassed to send a letter but NOT too embarrassed to call her up in front of his wife? huh?

And let's say he was "too embarrassed" to write the letter. Do you really want a man who cannot - WILL NOT - face the consequences of his actions?

kimberly,

I am in a very small minority that has recovered without one.

We are six years since the end of my wife's affair, and we have completely recovered from it.

But I would never recommend anyone following my example without counseling from Steve or Jennifer first.

There are just too many minefields that need to be overcome (see Suzet's thread for an example). Recovery takes much longer than normal, and it causes tremendous amounts of anxiety and pain on the part of the BS to see continued contact even though the affair itself is over...

It's not the ideal situation under any circumstance.

-HD

But HD, I would also explain to KIM that your wife HAS NOT EVER ended contact with the OM. They still work together.

Kim is in Plan B because he wouldn't end contact and she won't settle for continued contact. She has also been counseling with SH.

Exactly ML.

Which is why I said that while I'm in a small minority, I would never recommend my solution without the counsel of SH.

I'm glad she's talking to him. If she's in Plan B, and doing counseling with SH, then she should know what to do - have no contact whatsoever with her H until the affair is over and wait for the affair to flame out. She needs to not be there to meet ANY of his needs right now, and she also needs to try and occupy her time so that she does not think constantly about the affair (anti-depressants at this stage can be very helpful, if available). It's just too painful.

Plan B is a waiting game - as you know - and a painful one at that. At this point she should just heed the counseling of SH and see where it goes from there.

If she's in Plan B, there's really nothing more she can do other than work on herself and try to stay out of the way so that whatever love she has left for him can be preserved if recovery is to happen.

-HD