Hi all

Thanks to all you angels who have offered me advice in my darkest hours months ago.

Be it a once-off advice or numerous advice, all have been tremendously helpful during my soul-searching and healing.

And to all newbies in your dark moments, press on....... there're many very helpful MBers here. Continue posting & reading others' posts, you will get plenty of help here. No one can control the final outcome for your problem but you will get plenty of help towards self discovery & healing here.......

And an update on me & WH...........
It looks like we are now in NC stage, for about a month already. Still snooping, phone, email etc..... daily updates from WH.....looks good.

To be sure there's no contact on other cellphones unknown to me, I asked for telco statements with detailed contact nos only now. WH has also agreed to providing telco statements, backtracked to May 06. Am awaiting these statements......... WH assures there wont be rude shocks

NC started just before WorldCup. Worldcup seems to have helped keep WH very busy during initial month of NC. Post-Worldcup, WH is now busy catching up with work. Not sure if this is why WH doesnt seem to show any withdrawl sypmtoms.

We made a date with each other (kids-free) once a week. It's been fun... Have been doing this. I also initiated a once-a-week chat to check on how each other is doing since NC, have also been doing so......... talk about our feelings & being REAL has helped (thanks to pep's advice)

Of course, life's not a bed of roses...... but I count my blessings daily..... I still have issues with apparent lack of remorse.......(but will be patient, thanks to sharing from MBers)

Everyday, I still get flashback of WH & OW together. These still hurt though less tormenting now. Guess it'll be a part of me....... not lifethreatening here but any suggestion of painkiller is welcome too.....

WH's thoughtful gestures & willingness to allow snooping & to provide telco statements certainly helps..... I focus on these daily to shake off the flashbacks & issue over apparent lack of remorse.....

Emotionally I now have more of a Renter's mentality. I feel strongly & have communicated so clearly to WH that I do not tolerate breaking NC. Guess I have done what LA has suggested, set boundaries and made it clearly known to WH that consequence is divorce otherwise. I have come to realise that there's something much worse than divorce and it's false recoveries......

Not sure if we're in recovery yet. Anyone, any idea?

Once again thanks to all who've helped & press on those still in darkness......

endofworldnomore

Sounds like Recovery to me.

Make sure you work on EN's - do the survey. Build a great marriage.

Hi bigkahuna

Thanks for your reply. I'm relieved to hear you too think it's probably recovery. I surely dont want to live in an imaginary world, assuming too much. I've been holding back emotionally in case .........

WH seems to be doing more for me now. I am reciprocating but with much caution cos I constantly doubt if NC is indeed total. Knowing that someone else, like yourself, who's been through the same experience, also thinks it's recovery is certainly reassuring. Having an objective opinion, I do feel it's safer to invest myself emotionally again.

I frequently wonder if recovery is that smooth-sailing. Recall pep said recovery is much tougher than Plan A & B. Tough part for me now is constant doubts and nagging flashbacks

You guys & gals are my checkpoints on this journey, helping me by letting me know if I'm still on the right route to my destination, or if I've taken a wrong turn.

Your reminder to work on survey is very apt. I've been just going with the flow, not particulary asking for much from WH, except the weekly chat. Guess this means no major LB from me. We havent done the survey together but I certainly want to do so. After all the pain and having to live with unpleasant flashbacks as part of me for life, jolly well wanna make sure it's worth it.

BTW I am so happy today. I wanna dance.......Telco statement came and last contact was a week after NC. OW called WH several times in the same day a week after WH announced NC. Thereafter zero calls from OW. As for WH, he made absolutely no calls to OW since NC. CLEAN......

And they cant be using other cellphones cos they didnt suspect I was going to ask for the detailed statement. I asked for it afterwards just in case. Of course, there's possibility that they may now use alternative numbers. I will check all suspicious call patterns & frequently called numbers with next statement.


Cheers to all

endofworldnomore

I just saw this!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> KEWL

here's the "bad news"

RECOVERY is HARD

..... "duh"

but I mean it

in many ways recovery is harder than Plan A or Plan B

~because~

you are expected to love and live with a man you no longer trust very much, and you have diminished respect for him as well

here's the deal

start with YOU

build your own sense that you can trust yourself

that is primary (I recall)

you can trust your instincts
you can trust your emotions
all of it

build your self-trust first

share this with your FWH

tell him this is HIS task too !!!

he should not trust hisownself

he needs to recover that

now .... respect

you can respect yourown self rather quickly
look to your values and build from there
behave in ways that you admire in others
dignity is key

your H's respect for hisownself begins when he sees value in keeping his word .... as a man

men have this "my word is my bond" thing ... have him employ this as a way for him to build his self respect back

sex .... do it
do it a LOT

do it through the tears
do it throught the fear
do it when you are angry

do it like rabbits

the more you OWN sex ... the faster the mental images will begin to fade

it's REALLY bad for about 8 weeks

it gradually improves

prayerfully

Pep

Hi pep

Thanks for sharing my joy (you've shared my pains from the start). You make me feel light-hearted & hopeful. And most importantly, you've given me a glimpse of what to expect in recovery & what to do it.

I must give you credit for my wonderful Plan A & inner strength & courage to set those necessary boundaries.

What else can I say, you're spot on again. I struggle with flashbacks, loss of trust & self-respect (in that order).

Trust is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it's necessary not to trust to protect self. On the other hand, it saddens me that the relationship with the most intimate partner in one's life is relegated to being so unreal, so superficial. It becomes no different from that of cordial casaul relationships with one's colleagues.

My personal experience with loss of trust is ......I feel I am now less doubtful, less suspicious, but more cautious.

With doubt & suspicions, one imagines the worst of every situation which ends up with monstrous flareups & aggressive interrogations. I still have my occasional but less now and have (through my Plan A) mastered the art of being warm & nice even if I needed to question stuff. FWH's constant reassurance & hard evidence of clean telco statements certainly helps.

With caution, I just hold back emotionally within myself. While I appreciate all thoughtful gestures, I take all with a pinch of salt. I constantly remind myself that my holding back emotionally should not end up in LBing.

As for FWH trust for himself, pls clarify above quote. Should FWH trust his own instincts & emotions? Or is it that he shouldnt trust his own feelings & that he needs to recover that? Me a bit dense with joy now.

I get it that FWH needs to recover his own self-respect. Not sure if FWH has lost it in the first place? May be tricky for FWH? Cos he must see value in keeping his word as a man... without guilt & remorse, FWH may not see the monster he was. I feel that guilt & remorse is essential for complete functioning of moral compass, which is an effective deterent for future A. I must accept that this takes time. Will be great if there's way to speed up matters.

In the meantime, I thank God for all the miracles He has done for me & family. I pray for the miracle of repentance & spiritual awakening for my FWH.

As for my own self-respect, I have conflicting feelings. On the one hand, I feel I should be proud of my resolute & bravery to come thus far. FWH has always professes that he admires my strong character & respects me for that.

On the other hand, I feel ashamed that after all FWH has done to me (the most hurting being going on hols with OW just 10 days after delivery of my 2 year-old toddler) I still take him back & tolerate his having slept with OW.

I will allow time to erase those unpleasant images....

We had our weekly chat last nite. FWH shared that he feels responsible for kids & I. I feel proud that he's brave man to come to this realisation. On the other hand, I feel lousy it's responsibility, not love. Well, I have to count my blessings & accept every little nugget of blessing........

I asked FWH if he experiences withdrawal symptoms & he said once in a while he misses the fun & thrill. But he's grateful that he still gets a reasonable amount of personal space for pubbing with the guys. FWH did suggest that if I dont bring up the past & talk about OW, it'll be easier for him not to recall & reminisce.

Yes, I'm learning daily to live with my inner struggles. I try to put my gratitude to God (for making all things possible) into action by remembering to count my blessings whenever I have negative self-doubting thots.

I feel so light-hearted with bigkahuna & yours truly's assessing that we are in recovery. Seeing WH addressed as FWH gives me an unimaginable boost of confidence & hope for the future. It's the beacon from the lighthouse for me.

endofworldnomore

Hey pep

So how do rabbits do it? Ha

And what's KEWL? Cant figure out this one? Told u i m dense

More importantly is I need to clarify your advice about trust & FWH. Like to put that into action.

endofworldnomore

KEWL = "cool" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> .... but cooler

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Pep

Hi pep

Know what I need to do here - to build trust over own instincts & emotions.

But confused over what FWH needs to do here. FWH need to learn to trust himself too? Or FWH shouldnt trust himself?

I ask for this clarification cos thot if FWH goes by his sense of responsiblity (not feelings), the M may be safer. If FWH goes by his feelings, which may change over time, he may succumb to temptations more easily. ????

BTW I now know how rabbits do it, song & dance, acrobatic leaps into the air & all..... will remember your advice through tearful & angry sessions.

Cheers

endofworldnomore

FWH will need to trust that he will recognize and protect whatever his personal weaknesses were that allowed him to have an affair

trust that he can keep himself safe from temptation

Hi pep

Wow this sounds like a tall order. I've come to realise other than myself & God, I cant trust man.

Yes, we will do our ENs & survey. And yes, I will try to be vigilant to meet FWH's ENs but temptations are aplenty. And I will only age with time. That's why, I thot the only solution is that FWH is God-fearing & feels remorse. Thot this is the only prevention in the long term.????

Been reflecting on my current state of mind. You're right about recovery being harder than Plan A & B. I have issues like :

1) I cant understand why FWH even needs to heal. I'm the victim yet the villain needs to heal his broken heart! That there were once romantic & emotional links that need to be cut off, (in addition to physical NC) hurts. I feel jealous. LA said 2yr A is likely LTA though.

2) Someone suggested FWH may feel guilt for OW also. I see OW as trash that FWH just shakes off & walk away from. But that's not the case. I feel indignant.

3) Someone in my support group innocently asked if I really didnt mind FWH having had a sexual relationship with OW. It felt so pained. I accept relationships prior to M graciously. But within M! The issue here is a sensitive one. No offence to all the saints (FBS) who have the courage to keep the family together.

My mum didnt divorce my dad despite an A when I was a child. She forgave him & accepted him & they rebuilt a great M. But from the age of 12 to just before I had M prob, I wondered why she didnt have enough self-respect, dignity & pride to walk away.

I am bothered that others (maybe even my 14 yr D & 11 yr son) question & judge me similarly. That I lack self-respect, dignity & pride. I feel ashamed to accept back a FWH who had been intimate with OW, lousy self-esteem.

4) I am bothered FWH does not seem to show much guilt. I constantly remind myself that it will take time. To me guilt & remorse & a God-fearing heart is my only hope of defence against future A.

5) I do not enjoy feeling that I dont trust FWH. I feel I cant relax even in my own home. I know not to trust is to protect myself.

6) I have issue with some petty issues like smoking & biz entertainment in the nights (though I do get updates & FWH provides receipts to prove whereabouts). Hoping to take the chance to rebuild a better M than what we had before, small issues bugged me.

7) Of course the flashbacks. Not a single day passes that I dont "see them". Will remember your advice.

I recalled not long ago when I couldnt take the agony anymore, I said I was willing to overlook all other prob, that the only non-negotiable was total NC. Now that I've got NC, I still want more. Totally ungrateful.

That's why I constantly remind myself to count my blessings. Many of these issues get bottled up when I remind myself so & but frequently creep up on me.

Pep I've tried some counsellors but not much use. I always feel it's just too easy for someone who hasnt been there & suffered like us to advise. And with time diff I cant fit into Dr Harleys' schedule too.

Sorry to treat you like counsellor but I truly value your insights & most importantly actionable advice. It's amazing that many issues I am struggling with concerns trust & respect which you mentioned.

endofworldnomore

Hi pep

This issue of FWH trusting he recognise his personal weaknesses so as to prevent another A intrigues me. FWH & I had a dialogue about this. Very interesting discovery ... very frightening too.

FWH feels one of internal struggles is "Can I change ...... for good?" He admits he is playful at heart & is fearful that years down the road, he may get distracted again with someone else.......

I appreciate the openness but sure doesnt give me much assurance, in fact makes me wonder if the pain of daily flashbacks is really worth it if 3, 4 years later we are going to be here again! I wonder if my effort to work on ENs, avoid LB etc is going to be in vain.

Seems like FWH doesnt trust himself. How does FWH get to trust himself? Not sure if FWH even knows own weakness?

If FWH's moral compass is not fully functioning, ownership of commitment wanes over time & love is yet to be restored, are we just buying time?

Now FWH's motivation is the kids. But they will grow less dependent over the years & so will FWH's sense of responsibility.

Sure feels like holding a timebomb, one activated by remote control that's in hands of FWH! I'm unwilling! Or am I gripped by fear of the future which never has guarantee in the 1st place?

Oh dear me!

endofworldnomore
New FBW 42
New FWH 48
D14, S11, S2
Married 16 years, together 19
LTA 2 years
DD jun05, jan06
NC jun06 (records clean todate)

Been reflecting on my current state of mind. You're right about recovery being harder than Plan A & B.

I was not just saying that ... I meant every word ... the affair Plans A & B have rather clear-cut and measurable goals when compared to recovery ...



1) I cant understand why FWH even needs to heal. I'm the victim yet the villain needs to heal his broken heart! That there were once romantic & emotional links that need to be cut off, (in addition to physical NC) hurts. I feel jealous. LA said 2yr A is likely LTA though.

I was terribly jealous early on ... jealous of his AA meetings where he was getting support !!! I am saying this to let you know ... you're not nutz. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

2) Someone suggested FWH may feel guilt for OW also. I see OW as trash that FWH just shakes off & walk away from. But that's not the case. I feel indignant.

... and worse ... he does not hate the woman who plunged the dagger into your very heart ! I wanted Mr Pep to friggin' HATE her ... I remember having this conflicted area of needing my husband to hate another person in order to make me feel safer ... it does pass, ya know.

3) Someone in my support group innocently asked if I really didnt mind FWH having had a sexual relationship with OW. It felt so pained. I accept relationships prior to M graciously. But within M! The issue here is a sensitive one. No offence to all the saints (FBS) who have the courage to keep the family together.

There will be little surprize wounds you discover as you move through this time ... keep your balance ... by that I mean ... have some fun ... really go all out and have tons of fun

My mum didnt divorce my dad despite an A when I was a child. She forgave him & accepted him & they rebuilt a great M. But from the age of 12 to just before I had M prob, I wondered why she didnt have enough self-respect, dignity & pride to walk away.

you cannot fix your mother's past no matter what you do ... so move ahead not based on what SHE should have done, but based on what is best for you ... in the here and now

I am bothered that others (maybe even my 14 yr D & 11 yr son) question & judge me similarly. That I lack self-respect, dignity & pride. I feel ashamed to accept back a FWH who had been intimate with OW, lousy self-esteem.

make certain they see a woman with strong self-esteem and strong values ... they aren't stupid, they can tell the difference

4) I am bothered FWH does not seem to show much guilt. I constantly remind myself that it will take time. To me guilt & remorse & a God-fearing heart is my only hope of defence against future A.

this one is a very serious potential red flag ... keep your eye on this ... no guilt is not good

5) I do not enjoy feeling that I dont trust FWH. I feel I cant relax even in my own home. I know not to trust is to protect myself.

typical post traumatic stress anxiety ... trust, but verify first

6) I have issue with some petty issues like smoking & biz entertainment in the nights (though I do get updates & FWH provides receipts to prove whereabouts). Hoping to take the chance to rebuild a better M than what we had before, small issues bugged me.

I'd snoop in this area for years to come if I were you

7) Of course the flashbacks. Not a single day passes that I dont "see them". Will remember your advice.

after 10 years, I cannot muster any flashbacks ... even if I TRY !!! does that help?

I recalled not long ago when I couldnt take the agony anymore, I said I was willing to overlook all other prob, that the only non-negotiable was total NC. Now that I've got NC, I still want more. Totally ungrateful.

NC is manditory in order to progress ... but you are not UNgrateful for NC ~~~ it's that you want the ENTIRE PIE .... not just a lick of the crust <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

That's why I constantly remind myself to count my blessings. Many of these issues get bottled up when I remind myself so & but frequently creep up on me.

counting blessings is good no matter what

Pep

find out what his beliefs are ...

does he think fidelity in a marriage is important

find out if he knows any future infidelity on his part is a deal-breaker for you

Pep

Yes pep

U're right on both. I HATE OW to the bones, yet FWH maybe be feeling bad towards her! I could wish OW an endless list of ills now

But I cant do anything about FWH not hating OW, just have to learn to let go of what I cant control

endofworld

Hi dear

1)2) FWH says women view fidelity more seriously than men. Not sure but dont think FWH is there yet, to be morally righteous enough to have fidelity as his core value

3) YEs FWH is fully aware if caught again, it's the END. If FWH ever makes any mistake, he better own up before I uncovers. To show I mean biz, I have taken on additional work hours so that I am financially ready to be on my own any time

endofworldnomore

Hi pep

I have lots of issue over this & I have been asking about how FWH gets to feeling remorse. Judging from past experience of many MBers, it will take time, as long as more than 6 months.

FWH can only say he feels terrible seeing me so pained & hurt by his actions.

Until then, I can only wait prayerfully....... asking for God to grant the gift of repentance for FWH

I console myself that a willing FWB is the starting point for a repentant one finally. Count my blessings & await more blessings.



endofworldnomore

Morning, EOW...

I see you're really working on your personal recovery...and getting the best advice possible...(IMO)

I see what you're experiencing right now as a very internal and important part of your own personal recovery...wrestling your limits and power...your part in the marriage and in the A...and I wanted to jump in and clarify something, from my perception...

You had NO part in his A. Period. That isn't me just saying, "Let yourself off the hook" either. That is me saying you have no power over his choices...to choose the A, he shut out your influence...you really had no control.

I think that's tough for you...part of the devastation you feel, and in there is the victim you feel you are...you can grip that part and know it is you, craving control which God didn't give any human, and look at it for what you chose to believe about control, control in marriage, security and protection.

What do you think?

"Trust is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it's necessary not to trust to protect self."

When you choose to believe you can protect self from others...are you realizing you can be hurt (no protection) the first time, and protect yourself from the same hurt again and again right after through boundary enforcements? We will be hurt...we will experience pain...I believe our job is to know where that pain is coming from, all of it, to get that information, that signal, not to protect from pain (as a theory), but to know our own beliefs.

"On the other hand, it saddens me that the relationship with the most intimate partner in one's life is relegated to being so unreal, so superficial."

This is your belief. What if...your FWH only knew how to love you like a fantasy? What if he believed he earned love, therefore, punishment...and made you earn his love and punishment? Would it be worth getting to true intimacy, that of choice, with the payoff being loved fully, in a real way, being real to him and him being real to himself? Hence, to be REALLY loved?

"It becomes no different from that of cordial casaul relationships with one's colleagues."

Your own beliefs are potent--you live them...they are your experience, not THE truth...your truth. Be careful what you choose to believe...choosing beliefs from pain usually begets painful experiences...choosing them from love would then...

"My personal experience with loss of trust is ......I feel I am now less doubtful, less suspicious, but more cautious."

I think you got that blind trust is no more real than A's...it is a fantasy we choose to believe, are taught to believe, from our childhood. Informed trust is our adult experience.

"With doubt & suspicions, one imagines the worst of every situation which ends up with monstrous flareups & aggressive interrogations." I still have my occasional but less now and have (through my Plan A) mastered the art of being warm & nice even if I needed to question stuff."

Instead of warm and nice...I see respectful. Knowing your suspicions are your own...worth checking on...and that your power is your half of choosing to ask and believe, not "having to" just because FWH answers your question. This is a truth you didn't live pre-A, I don't think. You're living it now and you are aware your half is to freedom to believe or not believe. We are almost two years from DDay and there are still things, a few of them, that I listen, repeat with filter, and choose not to believe my H...and it does not signify any less respect or love I have for him.

"FWH's constant reassurance & hard evidence of clean telco statements certainly helps."

When Pep said you have to build your own trust in yourself...I cheered...then I read what you said "Wow this sounds like a tall order. I've come to realise other than myself & God, I cant trust man." You're human. God created you as he did all others...I guess I need some clarification here...because I'm hearing something hitting a lot of fears in me.

"Yes, we will do our ENs & survey. And yes, I will try to be vigilant to meet FWH's ENs but temptations are aplenty."

I hear the half of the A you don't own here...and not seeing where you end and FWH begins.

"And I will only age with time. That's why, I thot the only solution is that FWH is God-fearing & feels remorse. Thot this is the only prevention in the long term.????"

Ahhh...you were seeking protection in something else you cannot control...there are no telco statements for his remorse, the depth, his pain, his growth...where will you choose to believe and why...because God cannot control your FWH through fear...not in his design. FWH may choose to try to control himself through fear; you have that choice, as well. Want to control yourself through fear or love? There is no prevention...there is choice. That's my belief. Choosing our premise...focusing on yours, not his, is where you will get to your own security, and surprisingly, it has nothing to do with protection.

"Been reflecting on my current state of mind."

I love this choice...do you love this choice? Give yourself kudos, please!

"1) I cant understand why FWH even needs to heal. I'm the victim yet the villain needs to heal his broken heart! That there were once romantic & emotional links that need to be cut off, (in addition to physical NC) hurts. I feel jealous. LA said 2yr A is likely LTA though."

You accept you cannot understand that your FWH is going through withdrawal...from a fantasy. That was severely hard for me, too...his heart feels broken...it isn't. The self-backlash when he really gets to all of what he thought was real, isn't, is devastating...drug withdrawal...not from a person. I hope this helps you through this time.

About choosing to see yourself as a victim: Have you read NewLife05's thread on resentment...which brings up forgiving ourselves for choosing to stay in a marriage after infidelity? Looking at the part of what you do to yourself...feeling self-betrayal...doesn't eliminate his part, his real betrayal, but I found, it helps with adjusting to getting further within your own state of mind and the emotions coming from it within you.

"2) Someone suggested FWH may feel guilt for OW also. I see OW as trash that FWH just shakes off & walk away from. But that's not the case. I feel indignant." Temporarily, FWH may feel guilt...seeing himself in the total destructor perspective, including the OW...mine did...until he got that OW wasn't real at all...took time...because confusion beween fantasy and reality is what the FWH is in and trying to sort through...remember, right now is not forever...it is temporary. Respecting whatever it is he thinks, feels, believes and perceives is HIS, helps. Just as you do not want to be judged for what is yours...what you wrestle is what you do; what he does is his...hold that belief and try not to judge, expect, control...what is not yours, 'k?

"My mum didnt divorce my dad despite an A when I was a child. She forgave him & accepted him & they rebuilt a great M. But from the age of 12 to just before I had M prob, I wondered why she didnt have enough self-respect, dignity & pride to walk away."

Oh, you know that what you're experiencing right now also has an impact from way back when...a lot of the feelings are magnified, coming from these beliefs you held. Great insight.

"I am bothered that others (maybe even my 14 yr D & 11 yr son) question & judge me similarly. That I lack self-respect, dignity & pride. I feel ashamed to accept back a FWH who had been intimate with OW, lousy self-esteem."

What you example to your children, how we build our own self esteem and respect, which creates our dignity and pride, through boundaries and our chosen standards...will benefit them greatly...I promise...trust that what you learn, how you choose to love from choice, not earning, can give them the knowledge of being loved and loving by choice, not earning...which is what most lives are about, I believe. How God loves us...

"4) I am bothered FWH does not seem to show much guilt. I constantly remind myself that it will take time. To me guilt & remorse & a God-fearing heart is my only hope of defence against future A." You are bothered...you know what you want to see and you want to see it now, maybe? Would you rather see it now and it be false or in the real-time, real way, so you can bank on him getting to all his reasons (real ones), his choice, his power...so he will never make that choice again? If you rely on fear to protect, you...well, see above response...then you will only feel protected by others' fears...no love there. Not of themselves or for you, will you?

"5) I do not enjoy feeling that I dont trust FWH. I feel I cant relax even in my own home. I know not to trust is to protect myself." You can choose to learn to relax by not trusting honestly or completely...it is foreign to your belief that without trust (blind trust) relationships can't be healthy. This is a deep and core belief we are taught...just as we are taught we can be protected if we are aware, alert and anxious enough...is that truth? You are in your marriage...without total (blind) trust...and you have a marriage! No, it's not truth. Not real.

"7) Of course the flashbacks. Not a single day passes that I dont "see them". Will remember your advice." I wanted to add here that knowing what is yours...that you choose your thoughts, beliefs, perspective and perceptions...is an amazing truth...learning that when flashbacks come, you will have a fast image...if you do not bless it and put it away within 30 seconds, you will have the emotional reactions to the image you first had, and cumulatively, for each time you've pondered it...you have control of you...as soon as a trigger comes, own it--nod and internally say, "That's not what I want." More you do it, the sooner your brain will learn those are not the images, triggers you want...and stop handing them to you. Takes practice, acceptance and patience with yourself. Doing so doesn't protect you from future pain, it does stop you getting emotionally punched from past pain by bringing it into the present...

"I recalled not long ago when I couldnt take the agony anymore, I said I was willing to overlook all other prob, that the only non-negotiable was total NC. Now that I've got NC, I still want more. Totally ungrateful."

This isn't being ungrateful...this is bartering down yourself...your belief was correct...contact continues the A...so NC was vital...can't recover from an ongoing A...now that you have that, you have withdrawal...which is also temporary, like the A...and your marriage is permanent...once you get through withdrawal (and you learn more and more about your state of mind), then you'll have the beginning of real marital recovery (which NC and withdrawal are in, just suck)...where you share yourself, the new you, and he does, too...preparing for that is what I used withdrawal time for.

"That's why I constantly remind myself to count my blessings. Many of these issues get bottled up when I remind myself so & but frequently creep up on me."

Counting your blessings balances your perspective...brings you fully into the present...which is reality...as well as counting your grievances...and grieving them...healthy stuff, EOW...do you give yourself credit, kudos, blessings for choosing to do this?

"With caution, I just hold back emotionally within myself."

Why hold back within yourself? Do you mean holding back from FWH?

If you practice O&H statements now, to yourself and your FWH; do listen and repeat, you'll be in a routine for after withdrawal, I think.

"As for FWH trust for himself, pls clarify above quote. Should FWH trust his own instincts & emotions? Or is it that he shouldnt trust his own feelings & that he needs to recover that? Me a bit dense with joy now."

Here is where I ask you to remove your focus from him to you...you are looking at recovering your trust in yourself, your instincts and getting solid informations from your emotions...stay there. Where you have control and ownership.

"As for my own self-respect, I have conflicting feelings. On the one hand, I feel I should be proud of my resolute & bravery to come thus far. FWH has always professes that he admires my strong character & respects me for that."

Here is a signal of enmeshment...finding your own stuff through your FWH's statements...know this about yourself. You lean that way and you want to stand upright, in your own. If you believe you are brave, resolute, strong and respectful of self and others...then you truly are, EOW.

"On the other hand, I feel ashamed that after all FWH has done to me (the most hurting being going on hols with OW just 10 days after delivery of my 2 year-old toddler) I still take him back & tolerate his having slept with OW."

See that you build your own self-respect...and FWH cannot take it away in any manner without your permission. What he did wasn't about you...it was about him...and no, I don't believe WS's know self-respect...so it's new terriority in recovery...they had false self-esteem and respect, based on what others thought, felt or believed of them...that's not real.

We had our weekly chat last nite. FWH shared that he feels responsible for kids & I. I feel proud that he's brave man to come to this realisation. On the other hand, I feel lousy it's responsibility, not love."

Please don't cut off your own well-being by DJing...he feels responsible...he sees his choice, choosing you and family. Choosing to love can't be far away, can it? Let it be...his stuff, his...yours, your own.

"Well, I have to count my blessings & accept every little nugget of blessing........" Choice is HUGE reality...blessing comes in each of you realizing you choose your lives...do not build your own resentment from your own expectations...or you will bogart recovery, I promise.

"I asked FWH if he experiences withdrawal symptoms & he said once in a while he misses the fun & thrill. But he's grateful that he still gets a reasonable amount of personal space for pubbing with the guys. FWH did suggest that if I dont bring up the past & talk about OW, it'll be easier for him not to recall & reminisce." Do you see the progress? Sorting through the fun and thrill, which was the addiction, not the person...and for now, not bringing up OW as a person helps him. Later, when he really gets the distinction, sharing your questions, thoughts, feelings about OW, working through your own stuff...will be possible. I swear, I couldn't see that during withdrawal...had to experience it during recovery. The more you choose your thoughts, bless and send away those images, the more you'll understand he is as capable of it as you are.

Sorry for this really long post...only one last thing...

"FWH can only say he feels terrible seeing me so pained & hurt by his actions."

Your power is putting in the "can only say"...that's a judgment and it discounts you and your FWH. He feels terrible for your pain from his actions and choices. That's HUGE...no can only say in it...because that is facing reality, a monumental act...please know this is important...validates your pain, his choice, his pain of realizing his part...lots of stuff. Stay present, EOW...and hear what is being said, shared and do not allow yourself to judge your way into resentment.

You are a blessing, EOW. Remember that, too.

LA

HI LA

Thanks for your response. It's a truly wonderful post, with so many nuggets of profound advice.

Will take a while for me to digest all. I will not rush through cos I feel to ponder reflectively will reap me the best result...

For a start, u've so correctly diagnosed my innermost problem.

Yes, my desire to control vs what I absolutely have no control over is what's the root of all of my resentments. Now that I realise this, I will have to accept & embrace it if I do not want to live constantly with this inner struggle.

Letting of what I dont have control over is entirely new to me. It improves with practice but I will remind myself all the time.

Taking your advice, I announce that I believe I am a survivor & can do it. Like u said, positive belief begets positive outcome, turning my belief into a reality eventually.

endofworldnomore

Hi LA

With this, I mean 3 things :
1) I trust God
2) I trust myself, my values & beliefs, my strength & stability of character, even my ability to learn to protect myself (learning from past experiences). Or maybe I'm actually saying I have control over myself?
3) I cannot trust FWH. Maybe I'm actually saying I dont have control over FWH or any other human?

see,s it's back to the problem u've so correctly diagnosed! Desire to control vs the lack of control.

I enjoy these reflections. They help my self discovery & recovery. They also distract me from any resentments I harbour. While reflections may be constructive, dwelling on resentments is destructive.

endofworldnomore

[quote Of course the flashbacks. Not a single day passes that I dont "see them".

...learning that when flashbacks come, you will have a fast image...if you do not bless it and put it away within 30 seconds, you will have the emotional reactions to the image you first had, and cumulatively, for each time you've pondered it...you have control of you...as soon as a trigger comes, own it--nod and internally say, "That's not what I want." More you do it, the sooner your brain will learn those are not the images, triggers you want...and stop handing them to you. Takes practice, acceptance and patience with yourself. Doing so doesn't protect you from future pain, it does stop you getting emotionally punched from past pain by bringing it into the present...

LA [/quote]

Yes LA

Great advice here. Makes a lot of sense. Mind over matter. Not easy though. Will try. Remember, I am a survivor :-)

endofworldnomore