I just got an email from a friend that used to work with the OM saying that the OM seems happy. For some reason hearing this totally pissed me off. What pissed me off even more was being pissed off after I had such a good weekend with my husband.<P>Anyway, I ended up calling the OM and asked him if he got that "closure" letter I emailed him. He said yes and that he wasn't too happy about it...but it was true. Then I said you have nothing to say and he said whatever I say doesn't make you happy so why can't you let it go and that the longer time goes on the better things are getting with his wife. I said I'm sure you two will be happy together, she seems to treat you great...then I hung up on him!<P>I hate myself! Why did I do this after I thought I was getting over him. I feel like such an idiot...the guy could care less about me and I'm acting like such a psycho. I'm just mad that I was suffering for sooo long and he doens't give a sh@t!<P>I just got this major muscle pain in my shoulder that I've been having for a while and it all of a sudden just came back...I guess it's a stress thing. It so painful!<P>I just talked to my husband and told him what I did. He asked if I still want him and I said no. I really don't believe I want him, but I can't explain my actions!! If I don't want him anymore why do I feel the NEED to call him? How can he just let it go so easily...I hate him!<P>My husband and I had a great talk this weekend about EVERYTHING!! I really felt that we progressed alot...how could I be such a fool and ruin everything?<P>I just spoke to a friend of mine who now works with the OM. She doesn't think I really love my husband and that if I feel this way after only two years I should probably move on. She said she's been married for 13 years and still gets "feelings" for her husband every once in a while.<P>I just want it to work out with my husband so bad! I think we are great friends and I feel so comfortable and secure and safe with him. He still so understanding after all the crap I've put him through. I don't see myself living without him...so why do I continue to ruin everything?<P>How will I ever let this anger or love or whatever it is for the OM go? I'm so angry with myself right now...I feel like taking myself outside and beating me up!<P>I wish I could erase the past few months!!

Yup, that was a stupid thing to do.<P>But you know what? You responded to your actions in the appropriate manner. You called your H, you thought through your feelings and you know you took an inappropriate action.<P>In other words you are doing the best you can in a bad situation. I think you should just let this incident go.<P>If you really feel the need to take yourself outside, please use one of those foam bats. We grown quite fond of you.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Holly,<BR>Not having been on the "withdrawel" side of having an affair, I cannot give you advise other than to say...<BR>You are the only one who can change your feelings and thoughts. You need a paridigm change (think that is how it is spelled.)<BR>Sounds like you have a good and kind H, who is trying to be a GOOD FRIEND to you while you withdraw from your addiction. It IS within your ability to change your perspectives! That is the miracle of being a child of GOD. I seriously mean this. You have to let "LOVE", the real LOVE out of which you were created, control your behaviours. What you had with and for the om was not real love. You must see that. Love encompasses so much more than what you had with him. You are hurting because your ego has taken a blow by not being selected as the om's number one priority. Your ego is not the place from which miracles can happen. Go deeper. Under it all you are loved by a much more powerful and enduring force, one that only has your best interests at heart. Find that place in your soul and let those same forces drive your actions toward your H. Refocus your energies. Let your H comfort you and the power of his love also help you through this. Do not worry that you cannot respond in kind, yet. It will come.<P>I hope you understand what I am trying to say. My thoughts and prayers are with you both.<P>Beth

Not stupid you, stupid him. I'm sorry that happened, but it did, now pick yourself up and move on. Hold your head up high. And the next time you're tempted to contact him again, remember this little incident. He's a jerk. Aren't you glad that you can see that now? Wouldn't this be so much worse if you still thought all those wonderful things about him that you used to? You can just chalk this up to another lesson learned. Sometimes it seems like it's not so much that we love them that hurts, it's that they don't love us anymore. Maybe they never did, and now we feel so humiliated for doing so much damage to our lives for something that had so little value. My Married Man used to like to play this little game with me. He would say things to pull me in, to make me love him, and then he'd pull away from me. As soon as he sensed that I was getting tired of playing and pulling away myself, he'd throw me a bone. He'd tell me he loved me, anything he thought I'd want to hear. I fell for it for a while, and then finaly caught on, and dumped him. He STILL calls, begs and pleads, but I've figured out that he doesn't love me, he just wants me to love him. Feeds his puny little ego. Some men are jerks. Sounds like your husband isn't one of them. Focus on him. Don't take him for granted. You'll get over the jerky other man. Promise. Just hang in there, don't be so hard on yourself. Just learn from this. You'll draw strength from this experience. Good luck, dear.

sorina, <P>I liked what you just said about your other man. You're right. My OM didn't love me, he just wanted ME to love HIM. big difference. I hadn't thought about it in the way you just described it, but again- you're right. He would say anything and everything to pull me closer (I love you, I can't imagine life without you), but too close and he'd push me away a little (by saying that he was confused, or that he could never leave his wife becuase of the kids or something like that). but then when I'd seem to be moving on, suddenly he's begging again, he loves me again, he can't stop thinking about me again. It's all so clear to me now. What a complete idiot I was. Up until right now, I think I still believed he loved me but circumstances had kept us apart. How used I feel right now. and disgusting. but that's okay, I needed that.

Holly,<P>Gadzooks! Those are almost exactly the same things that happened to me before. I remember when my OW told me that she was basically not thinking about "us" anymore that I got very upset. And she said - "Why are you getting mad at me when you know the situation?" Yeah, I guess I got a little psycho too. I couldn't help getting angry. It's like you said, how could she just forget about me when I was in so much pain. Still to this day, that really hurts. She was always the one saying "I could love you for a really long time" and stuff like that.<P>--andy

Holly,<P>My words have been thrown back at me and it does help. This is what you wrote me:<P>"I just calculated how long my affair went on until I confessed to my husband...25 days!! And before I confessed I told my husband that I missed the OM because we had recently moved! I can't believe I'm sooooo hung up on something that lasted only 25 days, in which I only saw him 6 times and spoke to him half of the 25 days for about 20 minutes at a time! DUH...what is my problem!!! I can't believe I was ready to throw away my marriage after only 25 days with someone...it's almost laughable at this point!!!"<P>I thought of you this weekend at the wedding. I know exactly how you feel, believe me, so vunerable and so angry at yourself. I spent a portion of my weekend reading love letters from the OM. Why do I that to my myself? I don't understand my actions.<P>Your husband sounds like a wonderful, loving man, your very lucky. You say you can't see yourself living without him, try to focus on that. I wish I felt that way, I've been thinking of apartments, and a life without my husband.<P>I bought that book this weekend that my counselor recommended "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay" it's by Mira Kirchenbaum. From what I've read so far, it's very good. It's asked me 10 questions so far that have really helped me evaluate some things.<P>The first question was: "Think about that time when things between you and your partner were at their very best. Looking back, would you now say that things were really, very good between you then?" If, when your relationship was at its "best", things between you didn't feel right or work well, the prognosis is poor. I feel comfortable saying that you'll feel you've discovered what right for you if your choose to leave. If it never was very good, it'll never be very good. You can often fix what was broken, but you can rarely fix what never worked in the first place". After he asked each question, he goes through a couple of pages describing different situations to help you come to a decision.<P>Me & my husband always argued. I felt that love but we always had struggles, even in the very beginning.<P>[This message has been edited by Hummingbird (edited October 04, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by Hummingbird (edited October 04, 1999).]

Tamis--<BR>You said..."My OM didn't love me, he just wanted ME to love HIM. big difference." That's me...I don't love the OM I just want him to love me. That's why it's so hard to move on...he has totally crushed my ego (like Beth said). In the meantime, I'm making a fool of myself!<P>Hum--<BR>I think part of the reason I say I can't see myself living without him is because I've grown so dependent on him. But a part of me would miss him. I would miss being his friend, miss being my real self around him. I guess I would miss him alot, but it still doesn't convince me that I couldn't be happier with someone else. It still feels like there is something missing between us...I don't know what I expect.<P>We had a great talk this weekend about why I feel in love with the OM. The whole conversation started when my husband and I went to a bar and we saw a couple kissing passionately in the parking lot. I said to my husband that they must be having an affair...it just seemed so obvious. I was a little quiet when we were in the bar and my h asked me if I was jealous of those people having the affair...I said yes. Anyway, it seemed my h really understood me and wanted to help me through me feelings. Last night we were laying down on the bed together and he rubbed my head until I feel asleep. He hasn't done that (without me asking) for a LONG time. I should be happy and satisfied with him...how could I be so stupid and call the OM! Now, since I told my h I called the OM, I'm afraid any progress we made just went down the drain!<P>The wedding was very nice and it was great to see my friends. The couple who got married are so in love and happy together. They're going to try and have kids right away. Which is something else I discussed with my H...how scared I am to have children with him. What if things get worse when we have kids...then, like some people, I would stay only for the kids! I originally wanted to have kids in a couple of years...so I'm really in no rush.<P>Try to stop reading all those letters from the OM...it must be killing you. How have you been getting along with your husband? Has that book helped you any?<P>BTW...thanks for throwing what I said back in my face. I feel something one minute and then something else the other minute. I can never stick to one feeling for too long. I'm already feeling better about what a fool I acted like this morning. But, I still hate the OM...actually I hate that he doesn't want me anymore! But, it's better then drooling over him...that felt so much worse!!<P>Andy--<BR>You've been so strong about not contacting the OW...I need to take lessons from you!

Holly<P>Don't be so hard on yourself. This is one case of calling the OP after it's over, where it should have done some good. He made it pretty clear he doesn't want you. He has no feelings for you anymore. You should hear that he's happy and accept it. You're angry at yourself AND angry at him. <P>You owe him nothing anymore and he owes you nothing. What you had with him can never happen again.<P>Focus on your husband who seems to be handling your withdrawal well. Your marriage has so much more to come.<P>

hey Holly<BR>Been thinking about you this morning and I hope that you're feeling a bit better. This affair stuff can be so confusing! A few days ago there was a thread here about an OW Forum. Being an OW myself, I thought I'd just skip over there and check it out. Good Grief! These woman are from another planet! However, on that particular day, I was feeling like my MM wasn't as pathetic as I imagined him to be, that he REALLY did love me and was being held against his will in his marriage. What a bunch of hooey! Anyway, I read some of those posts, and the one thing that struck me was how stupid those OW seemed. It was OBVIOUS that thier MM were feeding them a bunch of horse toot! Poor things! They were wanting so desperately to buy into it! I read on for awhile, and that's when it hit me! Thier guys were saying and doing the EXACT thing that MY guy did with me. And it was those things that worked! I imagined those men chuckling to themselves at how clever they think that are. It pissed me off. Then I read something on the same site called the MM Dictionary. All supposed to be funny, but sadly it's all true. I recommend that you read it. It'll hurt like heck,but oh my, the next time you find yourself longing for that scum, those things will come to mind, and I guarrantee that desire will quickly fade. Trust me, when his friends start telling him that you have moved on, gotten over him,and are happy in your reltionship, it's gonna drive him nuts! That's your best revenge. And you can't help but feel sorry for his wife. My MM's wife tells everyone that they're back on track, that things are better than ever, blah blah blah. I'd love to record him sometime when he calls, professing his undying love to me, telling me that he is so MISERABLE without me, needs to see me, etc. But even though she thinks that I'm the one that seduced him and has lied about me to mutual friends, I can't do it,because all that would do is hurt her. And I don't want that. HIM? ya, I'd love to inflict a little pain on him. Seems like he's the only one that came out of this pain free. Why is that? Anyway, Holly , you hang in there.

Sorina/tamis:<P>Bingo. I don’t think I’d ever seen, in so many words, exactly how I felt. It works both ways, too... I am the man(a self-admitted incurable romantic), who was being bamboozled by the “love” the OW had for me. She did the same things... reel me in, then push me away. She wouldn’t even “let” me break up with her: She had to reel me in one more time, just so she could be the to break things off.<p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited October 04, 1999).]

Holly,<BR>I met with my w over the weekend and she too was p***ed off because her om's w had called her and "forgiven " her and wanted to meet her and give her a hug.<BR>My w kept saying that he was getting away with it all and didn't have to pay the price. She was really angry about all the lies he had told her about everything and was feeling guilty about believing it.<BR>I'm wondreing if this is a normal part of the withdrawal ? I guess it was the same when you are a teenanger and you breakup, you want that other person to rememeber you and to never have fun again.

Dunno about that “hug” for your W from the OM/W there, RWD... I would imagine there’s something else she wants to put in your wife’s back, not give her a pat on it. I’d be really wary of that.

Holly,<P>You tell me what's worse, having the OM tell you that things are going better for him without you and to move on or getting an email like this?:<P>"Part of my problem is identifying what is "right" regardless of feelings. I was always going with my feelings with us and you always told me or asked me about the "right". I should have listened more and not followed my feelings so strongly, not followed my heart. Best always my angel, you have more than a piece of my heart. It's so hard. I wish nothing but the best for you even if your happiness is found in someone else's physical arms you will always be mine in my emotional heart."<P>This is what I got today after our confrontation on Friday. I went to him Friday and told him I would try the "Goodmornings and Goodnights" to keep the peace. <P>God Holly, it's so hard.<BR>

Hum--<BR>(I have to say I'm almost jealous.) However, that's stupid, considering the pain you must be going through.<P>He has to stop doing this to you. What does he want you to do? I would almost be tempted to go up to him and say, "If this is how you feel, if you're going to keep professing your undying love for me then leave your wife tomorrow! If your not going to leave then stop contacting me, making me hang on to you, and preventing me from moving on!"<BR>Since (most likely) he won't leave his wife, maybe he'll get the hint that it's not fair to keep doing this to you.<P>I don't know about still saying goodmorning and goodnight...it probably made him think that you still want him to talk to you. (which may be true, but should probably stop for you own good).<P>He says he will always be yours in his emotional heart. If that's true then he's going to lead a very depressing life. I know I wouldn't want to be emotionally attached to someone I can't be with. I think eventually he will have to change the way he's thinking if he's going to move on.<P>It can't help the situation anyway seeing him everyday. Who knows where the OM and I would be now if I still worked with him. Considering he's such a horny b@stard and was only concerned with the way I looked anyway...probably not too far. He would have only been thinking with his head...(and not the head attached to his neck!)<P>Did you reply to the letter? Try not to! (like you would take any advice from someone with absolutely NO willpower!)<P>Pam

Hummingbird,<P>I have the perfect solution to that e-mail. Tell him that you printed it off and gave a copy to his wife. Watch the color drain out of his face, and realize that he does NOT want his marriage to end. Even better, actually print off the email and give a copy to his wife. Then he'll no longer be able to have his cake and eat it to, because she will know what he is up to and they can handle that between themselves at home.

Holly,<P>Yes, I responded. As you can see, my willpower is just as bad. I got some of it from that book I just bought.<P>"It's not what you feel inside and certainly not what you say you feel inside, it's what you can give based on what you feel inside. Love delivers." Obviously "K", this must show you that you can give your wife more than you thought you could and surely more than you ever gave me. Regardless of your son, you must love her more than you think and you must love her enough to keep giving and stay committed in your marriage. You truly love her, you never loved me. This is a fact. Love is actions, and your actions are with her. Even though you said you loved me, promised me unconditional love, you could not give me what you said you felt inside. Based upon this, you did not love me, you thought you did, but in reality you could not deliver. You loved me only in your fantansyland. Like I said I wish I could take a drug and just not have one feeling for you. I wish I had a magical eraser to just erase everything. Please, why do you continue to make this more difficult for both of us, please stop."<P>What do you think?

Hum--<P>I think the letter is great...although it probably won't stop him from contacting you.<P>I think maybe the letter is giving him the idea that you still love him and want him (which may be true...but he'll keep hanging on if he thinks that) but circumstances are keeping you apart.<P>I had the worst feeling this morning about the way I ended things with the OM. I'm so sad now that he probably thinks I'm a total b@tch. I want him to remember me as I was before this whole mess happened...but it's too late for that! I wish I could have just accepted the fact that he didn't want me gracefully. The truth is, when it came down to it...I probably wouldn't have left my husband for him. I just wanted the OM to WANT me and my big FAT EGO got in my way...I hate myself for that. I wish the OM and I could have remained friends.<P>Anyway...I gathered everything around the house last night that reminded me of him and threw them in the garbage (with my husband there). I also burned a photo of him...his face bubbled up...it was great! My H said, "What, are you finally breaking up with him?" He kept asking if I still love him and I said no. My husband said you must still love him if your still thinking about him. <P>It was difficult to explain to him (because I don't know what to believe myself), but I don't think I love him anymore...I'm just so envious and hurt that he is getting on with his life happily. He printed out something a while ago to me...words to "back to good" by Matchbox 20 and on the back was something he printed to get airline rates for a vacation he's taking to Orlando in October. That just about killed me that he's going on vacation with his wife. I don't know why these things bother me so much because I'm going on vacation with my H in November. I had dreams about him and his wife all night...the dreams were more like nightmares! He wouldn't give me the time of day and his wife was coming to me with their problems...so I woke up already depressed!<P>By the way...these are the words to the Matchbox 20 song...I absolutely hate this song. I used to love it...now it just makes me really sad...especially about how there's no getting back to good.<P>it’s nothing, it’s so normal you just stand there I could say so much but I don’t go there cuz I don’t want to I was thinking if you were lonely maybe we could leave here and no one would know at least not to the<BR>point that we would think so<P>everyone here, knows everyone here is thinking about somebody else it’s best if we all keep it under our heads I couldn’t tell, if anyone here was feeling the way I do but I’m lonely now, and I don’t know how to<BR>get it back to good<P>this don’t mean that, you own me this ain’t no good, in fact it’s phony as hell but things worked out just like you wanted too if you see me out you don’t know me try to turn your head, try to give me some room to<BR>figure out just what I’m going to do<P>and everyone here, hates everyone here for doing just like they do it’s best if we all keep this quiet instead and I couldn’t tell, why everyone here was doing me like they do but I’m sorry now, and I don’t know<BR>how to get it back to good<P>everyone here, is wondering what it’s like to be with somebody else everyone here’s to blame, everyone here gets caught up in the<BR>pleasure of the pain, everyone hides shades of shame, but looking inside we’re the same, we’re the same and we’re all grown now, but<BR>we don’t know how to get it back to good<P>everyone here, knows everyone here is thinking ‘bout somebody else it’s best if we all keep this under our heads I couldn’t tell, if anyone here was feeling the way I do but it’s over now, and I don’t know how,<BR>it’s over now there’s no getting back to good<P>Sorry this is so long...I'm just rambling.<P>How are you feeling today?<BR>

Holly<P>It sounds like you feel "betrayed" by OM. Except in this case you are "divorcing" him!<P>I see definite progress here. Keep it up. Focus on your "new" lover.

Holly,<P>Wow! I love that song! I know it so well! I'm so proud of you! I wish I could take your courage and strength right now. I'm a really sentimental person, I never throw anything away but I think that's why I gave most of the stuff back to the OM, this way I didn't have to deal with it. However, I still have letters at home. I wish I could have a letter burning party!<P>I've been thinking about what you said about feeling sad about the OM not wanting you anymore. That could be part of my problem too. The counselor mentioned that me, because I dealt with it much better when I said goodbye but now that I'm being rejected, it really hurts. My emotions are just all over the place, I feel so stupid, so used, everytime I see him at work I say to myself "God, why did I get involved with him, now everything is ruined, we can't even be friends", we used to joke and laugh alot. The friends part is the hardest thing. I really miss knowing about his life and talking to him. I have the need to talk to him and it's so hard to deny it. And despite everything he's put me through I do think he's a nice person, he's just as screwed up as me and we both didn't ask for this to happen, we're both equally guilty and now we're both paying the price. This is why I feel so crazy, I go from hating him, to loving him, to feeling sorry for him, missing him and back to hating him again.<P>Holly, he has to know how much hurt your feel. Try not to think about what he's feeling, I know it's difficult, believe me I get such a terrible feeling in my stomach thinking of the day I find out his wife is pregnant again or he tells me he finally over me. <P>Me & my husband are doing O.K. If you ask my husband, our relationship is great, he deny's alot of things or choses not to deal with things. If everything is smooth for a week, everything is great. Last night we sat on the sofa together and he actually rubbed my feet, he never does that. I know he has a very bad temper and is very jealous and has done things in the past to me, but the counselor said these are all issues mostly because of his childhood and they can be helped. <P>Despite everything I'm not sure I want to give up.<BR>Wouldn't it be nice to have a switch!<p>[This message has been edited by Hummingbird (edited October 05, 1999).]