LostWillow asked this question nested in a thread on Recovery. I think it is a fantastic , searching question.

My immediate answer is "no I haven't" and I am SURE that this is the name of the anonymous resentment I have been stifling for months.

Although I did the right thing and have gotten a pretty good outcome, I am angry at myself for being so weak I allowed myself to be a choice Squid could make or not. Writing this answer to that question releases an anger in me.

Can any other BS answer this question ?

BS: Have you forgiven yourself for staying in the marriage after being betrayed?

yes

Yes. I know exactly what this question means, too. My anger at myself was especially acute around the one year mark. I berated myself for settling for damaged goods; a "low man."

However, I think my anger dissolved over the months and years when I could see for myself that he was NOT a low man, but a GOOD MAN who faced his problem with decency and character.

In other words, as my trust and respect for him grew, my anger and disgust diminished in direct proportion. No longer do I call myself a "chump" behind my back! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Today I am VERY GLAD that I kept him. He is also very cute! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I did not recover my M, but sometimes I have to "re-forgive" myself for even trying. I have to remind myself that I did the right thing, it was worth it because I can look someone in the eye and say that I lived up to my vows and then some, and I did what I would want my spouse to do for me & our marriage if I was the WS (which I cannot imagine, especially after seeing the pain it causes to all involved, but I understand Dr.H says we are all vulnerable).

When I was trying to recover, I would sometimes think things like this ... how can I be with someone who could do that to me, how can I respect myself, how can my H truly respect me for taking him back, how can we re-establish respect and trust, don't I deserve to be with someone who hasn't done such awful things to me and forever changed our relationship, etc, etc. Of course, I think every BS goes through these thoughts to some extent.

The problem is that one cannot change the past. For me, it's a permanent scar. Healed, but not the same as before. If you find a solution to that you would help a lot of people. Perhaps it's just a matter of time, as in years and years and years of recovery. That's gives some hope, but the years leading up to that are so painful -- sometimes I still have a heavy heart from it all.

It's true, I do feel like I have settled for less than I deserve. Maybe, I am mad at myself for being weak enough to stay in a marriage that has had such betrayal in it. I haven't thought of that aspect before. Here's hoping that next year this time, I feel differently about it all.

My M is not recovered. I am still working on that one <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, but when I do have thoughts of "why would I want to be with a man who does such and such?" Or, why would I want to be in a marriage that is forever tainted?" Or, "don't I deserve better than this?" I realize that what I deserve is death and eternal comdemnation but Jesus has paid the price for me so that I have eternal life with Him even though I don't deserve it. How awesome is that?! Now I'm not saying that I should be a doormat. Not at all, but in the grand scheme of things, I deserve nothing. Look at how Jesus suffered. Did he deserve that? NO! What makes me any more deserving? NOTHING! I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea here. I'm not saying everyone should just stick it out and suffer. I'm just saying if you feel you are called to stand for your marriage then God will help you through it and mold you through the suffering. Besides, we will reap rewards in heaven for our stands and commitments to our marriages. I do struggle with this every day just like everyone else. I'm just telling you all what really helps me when I do think like that.

Interesting, Bob.

I never really thought of forgiving myself for staying.

I think at first I felt a little arrogant maybe "I was betrayed, But I stuck it out"

I think I see it now as more like I fought and I won.

I will think about this a little more.

Maybe it is just the stage where I am.

Thanks all.

My own dear Squid is an estimable wife and mother. She loves me very much and I love her too. I do not feel I have settled for a poor partner, although I once felt that way around a year after d-day just as mel says.

I have just felt an unnamed indignation within me for a while despite my life being better now that I ever thought it would be again just a couple of years ago, and I am sure that this question from lostwillow is one reason for that.

I would have liked it a whole lot better of Squid had to do a bit of crawling to stay in our marrige. But in truth I know her pride and fog were so strident back then it would never ever have happened. Th eonly wa we could recover was the way did it.
See what a nasty man I am ?

Wow Bob...what a thought provoking question...

My question really begs the question why would I get reinvolved? I was divorced, heard rumors of a past PA. At the time that happened I was still reeling from D. Reeling from her PA w/ coworker that started the same week I was told of her PA that had ended 5 years before....so...as I healed myself from the devastation of the D I really had decided that if that was true it did not matter...little did I know how much it really DID matter....

Fast forward to just the other night...when this happened Boundary Issues

She doesn't feel as if I will ever forgive myself because I have been steadfast that her actions were unforgivable...she she has said that "She'll never be good enough for me, I am better than she is, she can't forgive herself"....and I struggle...is she right?? Because of this a calm coldness enters the relationship....which is an ANTI- EN for me...it brings back chilling memories...she has begun to withdraw...fears me leaving her...and doesn;t fulfill some esential EN's....and when your wife is telling you that "she muct feel close to me for SF"....my only thought become of her SF with other men...it is a sick, twisted web is it not?? And I am just touching the tip of the iceberg...She also indicated to me that "you are the most self righteous person I have ever met"....this due to my comments on recent affair marriages with people that we know (I refused to go)...and in teh news...

I can't comprehend how some men have moved past all of that...I assume this can and will be a life long struggle....

I will never forgive myself for staying, I will never forgive myself for trying to work at this marriage I will never forgive myself for not leaving years ago. I will never forgive myself for the hurt I had caused my children over a man that just does`nt get the TRUE idea fo being married.

NO.
Not at all.

Which is strange,
because I DON'T regret giving us the Chance (shot) to make it work.

However,
Maybe even "that'" has a bit of selfishness to it ......as I Knew that at least attempting to work on the relationship would go a LONG long way in helping me to Recover Personally. {which it has}

(To put a tiny bit of framework)
Unfortunately,
I've already been down this road (infidelity) as a child.

As one result of its cancer like touch,
haven't seen nor spoken to my Dad in going on 2 Decades .....(don't ask, serial cheat, the works)
Only wrote that to show the Level of commitment I've been willing to endure,
When its something I truly believe in.

Anyway,
as a result,
some of my views are More Shaded,
then perhaps some others that may be experiencing this stuff at a much more emotionally mature stage of their lives.

Not claiming it doesn't effect them IMMENSLY,
just that my experience has BEEN the Overriding Factor [unequivocally #1] that has Shaped who I am today.

Hence,
Tough to get over feeling that you've betrayed the very Essence of whom you always believed you Were/Are!!

Guess it came down to the fact that I felt MORE of an obligation to the promises I made to my Children, then the ones I made to that Child (me) long, long ago.
{Cause sadly, due to my W's actions .....I could Only Keep One}.

But still,
I'm a "do right" and FAIR type of guy ......so very tough to Get Beyond the reality of having Broken such a Deep and Sincere promise (even if only to myself). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

SMOMW
She'll never be good enough for me, I am better than she is, she can't forgive herself

I get this from Squid too. I have come to think its an excuse for her to not self-improve. After all if she admits she's no good surely no-one can expect her to move out of her comfort zone to improve ?

Back in the winter this year we had a blow up over this. I replied to her " if you're not good enough for me and my behaviours intimidate you so, you are at liberty to leave any time you wish. There is no lock on the door. "

Squid hates it when I expose and remove excuses but theres usually progress afterwards.

Bob, correct me if I am wrong on this.
Did your wife have sex with the OM one time?
Or was it a lingering affair, I don't recall?

Oh bob! This is my WH exactly. I feel it is an excuse too! I wish I could learn to "expose the excuses" like that too.

Squid had a one year EA with a very active three months PA before I busted it. How many times ? I dunno. Tens probably. I saw receipts for 8 motel stays, but there was more opoortunity than just the motel stays. ( OM checked in as 'Mr and Mrs Bob Pure' you see so trouble wouldn't follow him home. He didn't think the address might be used for marketeing by the hotel chain. I got an offer to join the frequent stayers club with a breakdown of my 'activity'. Useful, but pretty hurtful at the time).

I discovered the affair two years ago TODAY when I made a move on my wife in bed and found OMs seed in her.

That was pretty upsetting. If others experiences are worse than mine, they would likely have killed me. This one almost did.

My question is about forgiving OURSELVES for remaining in the marriage, not about forgiving our FWS though ,'zip.

But Bob I see it as big steps backwards....the other night I lost it...I was VERY ANGRY....and it all started due to me getting upset that she asked "permission"...made it a point to make sure I KNEW she was asking permission...and that is a crappy relationship....to me she doesn't UNDERSTAND my boundaries...cause she is so consumed with her own self loathing ANY time the subject comes up....

I have become accustomed to her narcissistic ways....and it is getting worse....

My oldest son, just last night was talking about a trip that we took together, 7- 8 years ago after a commercial came on TV and he started telling his Mom what he recalled when he was 5 years old....and I saw her wave him off....and he was like...what...??? Mom..I was.....she did not know I saw any of it....Trigger time....I was with my son...having a wonderful father - son time...one he'll never forget....she was banging some old guy in a hotel room in Vegas.......consumating an EA into a PA...and my trigger was her waving it off...not my son bringing our trip up....

Wow Bob...you have me thinking big time today, dang it...

Wow Bob, I thought me finding a very graphic video of XWH and OW with them going at it on our couch was a pretty hard way to find out, but yours really s*cks too.

I'm sorry that these memories spike on days like this. Take a deep breath, my friend.
I think it takes a big BS and a big WS to overcome this sort of pain.
And some days we're just not up to it.

As for your original question - no, I have not regretted staying in the M for as long as I did.
I don't have to look back now and regret.
I know I did everything - and more - that I possibly could to heal the M.
I didn't back down, faced every challenge.
Until I found out that WH wouldn't stop his "lifestyle" and wanted to remain a WH - that's where I drew the line.

there is nothing to forgive MYSELF for

i'm proud of myself for loving my H enough to be understanding of the fact that we all make mistakes, being able to admit the mistakes I made and make changes, and for being openminded to the possibility of the better life that could be ahead for us together if we both make a committment to meet each other's needs........

most of all, i'm proud of myself, and surprised at myself, for loving him enough to forgive HIM and for remembering that he is a good, kind, caring man regardless of the mistake he is making now

I am certain that the ONLY way for me to have taken the path I did was to feel the stab of agony resulting from the divorce...if I had experienced what Bob or Brownhair experienced I could not get through it....I do not think I could plan A during an affair...no way....but that is me....