I dropped my kids off last night after taking the twin boys out for a birthday dinner. When I arrived, my ex wanted to talk about some things. It led to a discussion about my failures as a husband.

She says she's happier now than she's been in a long time. She has a big house, a live-in nanny (which I got for her to help her while I was deployed in the AF), a new car, a new job, and primary custody of the kids. She says that she initially had hope for us, but that my "crazy" behaviour in the last four months since I came home from the war and found out she was cheating on me ruined any chances of reconciliation.

She says I need to become a man she, or any woman, can be attracted to. This means I need to concentrate on my career and being a good father.

It baffles me that she thinks I wouldn't react adversely to finding out she was unfaithful, wanted to leave me, took the kids, persuaded me to leave the AF, and then insisted I pay a huge amount of child support while I was unemployed.

So I lost my wife, my family, my job, and my home. I left an environment where I had real and close friendships with my squadron mates to move to a place where I had no family and few friends in order to be near her and the kids.

In that time I've seen her get back on myspace, continue dating a bunch of different guys, make out with one guy in the parking lot of the mall, and offer me no explanation as to why she ever left me. She's become an alien who has no resemblance to the woman that once loved me. Have I engaged in LBs? Yes, and I acknowledge that. I went on myspace and contacted some of her "friends" to let them know she had been unfaithful to me while we were married. This didn't change any of her friendships but simply served to make her mad for "trying to ruin her reputation". This has been the worst I've done since our divorce. The other things that drove her nuts was the constant spying when I came home and found out she was unfaithful. These two things, along with my depression in dealing with all of these changes, has been my "crazy behaviour".

Recently I've gotten fed up with being at her mercy in terms of when I see the kids and her not honouring our divorce agreement. I hired a lawyer and am going to file for contempt against her as well as a modification of custody.

This development either rattled her or has forced her to engage me and talk. She thinks that now that she has told me there's no chance of reconciliation that I'm taking steps to get revenge and become vindictive instead of always being the doormat for her and constantly doing as she dictates.

She's wanted me to "move on" and let things go. Hanging on to her infidelity has only worked against me. That she hasn't apologized to me for it because I haven't shown her anyone she wants to talk to and be friendly with in order to apologize.

I've been a doormat in this whole process. I let her keep most of our things, gave her a no-contest divorce where I didn't fight her for custody, gave her $8000 which we agreed to in our divorce that we would use this to pay off our credit cards, let her keep our brand new mini-van which she sold off and kept the money instead of paying off our loan with it. She got another new car with that cash and left me with the payments for the mini-van.

I haven't fought her as far as taking the kids to see my family in California or to my father's wedding next month. She won't let me take them to either place and doesn't offer any good explanations as to why.

So now I've hired a lawyer and she's about to get the hammer dropped on her for many things. More than likely, this is going to ruin her financially since the court will likely order her to pay me back the check she pocketed in addition to the loan payments she hasn't made in the last 5 months.

This will put a huge financial strain on her and likely cause her to either get help from her parents, move out and find a smaller place, or sell her new car and get a cheaper one.

I'm not doing this to be vindictive, but I am tired of being a doormat. Am I wrong to do this? Is it wrong for me to take her to court in order to get her to honor our divorce agreement? She's going to hate me for taking these steps.

So now I'm torn. She tells me that all she's wanted all along is to see a man that would be willing to stand up for her and was attractive and approachable. That all I've done since coming home is push her away and act crazy by being angry, depressed, and devastated over all that has happened.

So the conversation led to a laundry list of my alleged failures as a husband which caused her love for me to fade.

This is the laundry list of complaints of my failures as a husband:

1. I didn't stand up for her against my mother. My mother never liked her and would regularly give me her opinion, on the phone, of what she felt my wife was doing wrong. 99% of the time I just listened, nodded my head and dismissed what she said. I then made the mistake of sharing with my wife what my mother thought. I thought this was openness, but it apparently backfired and became a sore spot for my wife.

In the four years we were married, she saw my mother for a total of three weeks. Yet she says she had a constant presence in our lives.

2. I act older than my age. I'm 33 years old. My ex ws is 27. We had a child just 10 months after we were married. We deployed overseas to England where she followed. We added 2 more kids while we were there. She was supposedly bored by me because I always wanted to do the same things. Go to dinners, movies, the local officers club. No, I didn't want to go to clubs to dance. While we were there we went to Spain, flamenco shows, local "Air Force Idol" competition, Phantom of the Opera in London, toured London and Cambridge, among other things such as getting together with other couples to play board games on weekends.

In Kansas we didn't have the luxury of having a live-in nanny any more so we would go out to kids museums, parks, the zoo, and the mall on weekends. At night we'd either watch TV or play video games together. This was boring to her and I should have wanted to do more exciting things. My argument is that it is hard to do much else when you have 3 kids and you're at home and don't know anyone you trust enough to babysit so you can go out as a couple.

This is apparently my second greatest fault.

3. I supposedly wanted her to be a "Betty Crocker" housewife and "little military spouse" who only hung out with other military wives and couples. Granted, I always encouraged her to participate in the spouse activities because it would be very difficult to meet other people there without getting involved in something. My biggest issue with her friendships came when she wanted to make friends with a single guy that worked in the base store. I had problems with this because I didn't like the idea of my wife being friends with another man and talking to him all the time. This became a huge source of arguments for us. It reached its peak in friction when one day I decided to surprise her while she was "studying" at the local community center. I showed up there and she was playing video games with this guy in the game room. I felt deceived since she was supposed to be studying and was never comfortable with this friendship of hers after that and she resented me for it.

We were always invited to do things with other military couples who had kids. I wanted my wife to go to these activities with me, but she never wanted to and therefore never really made any friends there. Her attempt to make friends in Kansas came when I was deployed and she created an account on myspace. It was this account that she used to go out with 4 different men in the 2 weeks before I came home from my 2 month deployment. One of these men led to a sexual encounter. No intercourse, but plenty of everything else happened.

I always wanted her to find whatever she thought would bring her fulfilment: School, job, volunteer work, whatever. Anything which she would enjoy and would make her happy. I didn't insist on her being a stay at home mom. I knew that having something outside of the home and kids was important for her to be happy.

4. I wasn't romantic enough. Not a day went by that I didn't tell her I loved her. I didn't buy flowers for her every week, but I did at least once a month.

I bought books on how to be more romantic and how to get more romantic ideas. Still a bit limited because we couldn't really go out, but I was willing to put in the effort and try.

I never got a chance to prove otherwise. Now that we returned to the States from overseas I was willing to do a lot of what we used to when we were dating once our nanny started living with us again. Would I have gone to clubs? Sure, once in a while. Did I want to do things that she'd enjoy? Absolutely. I wanted to take her horse back riding, swing dancing, river cruises and all the things we really couldn't do in England because of cost and the age of our kids.

So those are the great complaints. Is this a maturity issue? Standard WS speak? Please help me understand.

She's not a WS. She's an XW, or an XWW. Get that through your head.

Suggest you drop the R talk for a while. Don't listen to her spew venom at you, it only grinds you down. She is going to hang the kids and reconciliation over your head as long as there is a payoff of some sort.

Pound her with the legal and financial hammer. Let her face the consequences of her actions. Let her go broke and lose custody. All the while she will hiss and spit at you. Ignore her and work on you.

When you've worked on you, and when she's hit bottom, and if you still want her back, then would be the time to work on reconciliation. Make sense?

papaof3,

I could write a treatise on what is wrong in your post but instead I invite you to read what bitbucket wrote as well as noodle's quote in my sig line.

Stop REACTING and start proacting.

bitbucket,

Thanks. It helps to come here and have people give you a more objective opinion.

I forgot to add "judgemental" to my list of failures. I rush to judgement, in her opinion, of other people based on personal appearance. Says I look down on people who have tattoos, for example. This isn't true, since I have plenty of friends with them, but I didn't want my wife to get one when she asked me for my opinion on it.

Yes, I am judgemental of her "friends" on myspace. Many of those guys look like party guys, or men that I would not anywhere near my kids. The one I saw her out with at the mall is a total bum and a man that cheated on his GF with my ex ww. When I saw him he had a dirty cap, a t-shirt, torn shorts and sandals. This is what he wore for a date.

Judgemental? Partly. But I could really care less about what people look like or dress as long as they're not going to be around my kids. Yes, there is a certain standard that I want them to have as examples in their lives.

Papa,

Make sure you print out the summary of her complaints for your attorney. If he questions her properly and, then, uses what she told you as a "statement against interest" for impeachment purposes, he should be able to paint her out as a good time girl who has no interest in being a mother. This will work in your favor.

Regards,

BB

Awesome advice. I'll give it to my attorney.

cymanca,

What is wrong with my post? Just curious.

Papa,

I think the issue is that many times, the BS protects the WS from the consequences of what they are doing. We should not do that.

For instance, if we expose, and they lose their job, this is a GOOD thing! Sure, they will be angry. Sure, they will threaten. Sure, they will think we are being vindictful, etc.

But who really cares what the WS thinks? They arent thinking anyway. They are in the fog...their ability to rationally come up with solutions is impaired. Remember, this is an addiction just like any other. So, would you argue with a drunk? Would you try to make sense out of what a druggy "feels?" Of course not!

The first issue is to get the addict away fro mthe drug. Then the withdrawals. And THEN and ONLY then will you have a chance to speak to a rational person. To speak to yoru wife. Until then, you need to listen to what the doctor says. Follow the plan. Do what YOU can do...and should do.

No more giving in to her. No more negotiations. All that does is embolden her.

Draw the line...lovingly...that she cannot cross. Defend your boundaries.

And guess what? In the end, if your wife does come out of the fog in time, she will respect you more for standing up for what is right. For standing up to her.

Standing in His Presence

Pap,

In short, you set yourself up as a punching bag in the misguided effort to appease your WW and now your XW.

If your XW was and is still acting like a horses [censored], why would you give her custody of your children??????????? among other things.

Your children need you. In order to be a good father you MAY have to anger your XW to care for their needs.

Like I always say, the WS's fog is great but sometimes the BS's is impenetrable.

OMG, Papa, WHY would you listen to that for more than a second? This is the question, WHY? You thought you didnt feel bad enough? You thought this would lead to her wanting to reconsile???

As soon as I saw the way that conversation was going, I'd have made a comment about having to go wash my hair and RUN for the nearest exit. Why volunteer for such a beating? All self-serving drivel... I bet she thinks she got the last word... she really made you think <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />. What nonscense!

That's why we D these WS's... so we dont have to listen to their drivel any more! You are no longer legally required to give a poop about her. She's obviously not approaching you with care in her heart.


She's not offering you anything, is she? Is there a specific deal on the table?

I'm sorry, this is always so hard. Please take good care of yourself! - Dru

You have rolled over for her time after time. As Dr. Phil would say "How is that working for you"? She keeps rewarding you by kicking you in the crotch.

So you say she is going to "Hate" you if you continue going to court? I have news for you, she is already acting like she hates you.

Really what more can she do to you? Take your kids away? Cheat on you? Devastate you mentally and financially? She has done all of that already. She has emasculated you already.

So now your worried that she will not like you? Are you kidding me? Did it every occur to you that if you had stood up to her she may not have decimated everything that you loved or believed in.

Now go stand up for your kids. Your XW might have a change of heart but only if you change. She would not have to worry about a lawyer if she would have treated you with respect. Now go get a lawyer and for god's sake no idle threats. Make her know you mean business and who knows maybe she will change. She has had no motivation to change her ways in the past.

Also she can avoid all of this by meeting your requests. It is up to her. Kids need fathers, we are very important in their lives. Over 75% of all people in jails never had a father around. Fathers are also very important for girls. Fathers have a profound effect on their daughters and their view of men. They are less sexually active at an early age if they have a good relationship with their dad. If nothing else do this for your kids. I know their current role model is not going to bode well for them in the future. BE THE MAN. You can do it!

If you two ever get back together it will because you stood up for your kids and not because you let her do whatever she wants to you.

Thanks to all of you for these words. I really do appreciate them and they do help shake me back to reality. My lawyer says that I have gotten to used to her controlling me. I see that when I'm exposed to her I do get weak and question what I'm doing in regards to standing up for myself.

Your words and advice, as hard as they may be at times, are great and I really value them.

Mortarman, I cried when I read your post. It hit me when you were on the stand and were stating why you deserved custody. I gave up my military career as well. I was a pilot. Flying is all I ever wated to do in my life since I was a child. I gave it up in order to be near my kids and not be away from them again because of deployments.

Thanks again, and please keep the advice coming.

She blames your reaction to her A for the failure of the M. Not the A at all, just your reaction.

Do you see how crazy that is? Wow!

Keep this in mind, always. She's a master manipulator, in my book. If her lips are moving, she's trying to manipulate you, either to get you to or not to do something, or to justify her existing behaviour.

With people like that, I always have an 'out' in my pocket. "Have to run, dry cleaners close in 10 minutes". "Have to run, meeting a friend and I'm running late". "Have to run, roast is in the oven" Cut her off quickly and leave. There's no reasoning with her logic.

I dont know why I'm still amazed at how cruel people can be. I am sorry. Please take care - Dru

Good to hear Papaof3! I know some of what I post may seem harsh but I use to rollover for my wife for years. Big mistake. Your a good man and should have access to your kids, because they need you.

Stay strong and I will be praying for you. You can still be a good guy and stand up for yourself. Don't be afraid to do both!

Papa,

No problem. As I said, we all have been down this road. And it is sad...but your wife will find it saddest of all in the end!

You, as a military man, know now is the time to plan for the upcoming battle. Save those you can.

This woman you knew as your wife is now the enemy. Treat her as such. There are no negotiations, no middle ground! There is right and there is wrong. Be right...always!

I am a former IG, and our motto is: Droit et Avant (Right, then forward). And this motto should now be your creed. make sure what you are doing is right...for you, for your kids, with God...then move forward with conviction. And dont let the "enemy" try to turn you away from those goals. she will try with tears. with threats. With false reconciliation attempts. She will say "see, if only you wouldnt be like this, then we might work out."

Dont listen the manipluation by the enemy! If she ever comes around, she will NOT point her finger at you. You will see true repentence...where she only points the finger at herself. And you will see surrender!

No repentence...no surrender? Then no mercy.

Now, get to your mission.

Standing in His Presence

Mortarman,



Great summation.

Thanks, MM. It is so hard to picture this woman you pledged to love for the rest of your life as the enemy. Unfortunately, that is what it has boiled down to.

Presenting it that way helps and letting me know about the tears, false reconciliation attempts and other tactics of manipulation really help.

"How can you tell when a WS is lying??" Their lips are moving.... Your Ex is still living in the fog that the very first A brought about. It is obviously still in place. Live your life for you and your kids. Set your own course, and stick by it. No longer can you allow the Ex to have influence over your decisions in life. She is no longer the woman you knew and married, she is now a person totally devoid of moral and spiritual direction. Follow her nowhere. Pay no attention to her drivel. March to your own drummer from now on!

Best wishes,
SD (fellow Kansan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

I have an overall feeling of dread today. More like "blah". Basically feel like the guy from Office Space at the beginning of the movie.

Why? Because I gave up a career flying airplanes to enter the corporate world. I did this to be close to my children. Honestly, right now I miss the smell of JP8 on the flight line. I miss getting into the jet and running checklists. I miss barrelling down the runway in a fully loaded jet while crosswinds make the takeoff racy. I miss getting up during a flight and going to the back to lay down in the boom pod to watch a C-17 attempt to make contact with us. I miss my squadron mates that I grew to know and care for while I was deployed and we lived together in a stinky tent for 60 days. I miss the military culture. I miss knowing exactly what the demands and expectations for me were. I miss having leadership that cared for me and regularly checked on me to see how I was doing.

I miss the rush of trying to land a 180k jet on a short runway in wet conditions with a strong cross wind.

My leadership was absolutely fantastic during my divorce. They called me almost daily to see how I was doing. They were there for me when I discovered that my wife was unfaithful and that she dropped this bomb on my head when I got off the jet.

They had two pilots in the past year attempt suicide after a divorce. They know they really need to reach out to guys in my situation because it gets so overwhelming.

I don't miss being told I had to leave at a moments notice and leaving my family behind in the process, but that was really the only downfall to what I miss.

These are the things I wish I had again in my life and regret having given them up because of my ex ww's actions.

Last night I was punishing myself again and went to her website. I saw comments she left on these guys pictures and it stung.

I still don't understand what she feels she'll find online or how it will be better than what she had, but I never will understand it. That's been the hardest thing to accept.

I'm still tempted to write ever single one of her friends on that site and tell them what she's really like and what she did to me. See how many of them stick around after that. I was also going to post pics of what she really looks like, not the posed, deceiving pics she has on there now.

This would simply be a vindictive act. I keep telling myself that we've been commanded to turn the other cheek and forgive 70 times 70. Hard to do when anger and jealousy kick in. Granted, vengeance and jealousy are deadly sins in and of themselves and only consume the person who has those feelings.

Do you still hold your class 3 medical?

Do you have enough PIC hours to go commercial?