actaully CS.....don't assume that i responded because mels words had any more value than yours or anyones

you were wrong in what you stated about plan A and when you said pick a plan and stick to it.......it's plan A THEN plan B........she needs to decide if she has finished plan A and if so...go into plan B......kinda being in plan B is NOT being in plan B

truthfully CS, since you have never experienced either side of infidelity, you really can't understand what many of us are going through when it comes to an affair

if your giving your thoughts on other things....like emotional needs, love busters, love banks...well those are things you could have experience as well as knowledge to base your thoughts upon

i have avoided posting to you many times in the past but i do think that this is some of the reason why your posts are controversial........honestly CS...until you LIVE IT you really can't understand.....and some of your comments, although honest, come from the eyes and heart of someone who hasn't had an affair destroy thier lives.......

Losing him,

1. Exactly how have you forgiven your WH for adultery that continues unabated???

2. As Christians (assuming you are) we are called to forgive, and you may be ONCE YOUR WH ends his affair; but, it is my understanding that the biblical right to divorce remains despite the granting of forgiveness. How long, I am not certain.

Mr. Wondering

ykticscswla

Wow-So a successful Plan A does not result in the cessation of contact between a WS and the affair partner? That's what I saw towards the end of Harley's description...

What then is a "successful" plan A in YOUR estimation?

BTW-You shold know that you are now contradicting my other "educator." MelodyLane said that the young lady should not even attempt a Plan A on an addict.

Looks like we have a discrepancy!

BUT WAIT-Are you NOW saying that Harley himself "can't really understand"???? After all...HE HAS NEVER LIVED WITH INFIDELITY and he also stated that he would not stay after an affair!

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Now I know my ABCs
next time won't you sing wif me... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Hey hey hey. This board is for giving advice to people. Not bickering and arguing.

Plan A: See Pep's Carrot and the Stick post.

The basics of it:

Plan A is really for the BS to better themselves and allow them to look back on things in 5 years and not second guess anything. It is also designed to make the WS see that the BS is actually the better choice.

If Plan A works (ie Spouse returns to marriage and agrees to reconcile with No Contact) then you don't need to Plan B (what would be the point?)

However, When Plan B is implemented, IT IS IMPERATIVE that the WS's lasting impression of the BS is that they are the best thing that ever happened to them.

But Plan B is also for you to let yourself heal. In No Contact, WS needs to detox from OP. In Plan B, you need to do the same for yourself, any contact with WS will put you right back to step one.

Just make sure you have all your ducks in row BEFORE implementing Plan B.

In my plan A, my WW has noticed that I am a better person and thinks that I am an alien (because I have improved so much.) Her A is still young compared to many and has been exp. et al. It has been a week since she moved out and I've seen the fog go in and out more often than I have in 3 months.

Whatever you do, make sure you are doing a killer PLan A before going to B.

Plan A does NOT include: whining, crying, begging, or acting desperate.(talk about unattractive!) It is calm, cool, collected and for YOU.

CS, again, you don't have the SLIGHTEST IDEA what you are talking about. You know it and I know it. You have never worked these plans and probably don't even own a SINGLE Harley book. That is very evident in your misleading posts. You do no one any favors by coming here and misleading newcomers into thinking you know a DAMN THING about this program when you don't.


The plans are to be conducted IN THAT ORDER for a REASON. It is not a matter of "picking a plan and sticking to it." This is not the cafeteria program of PLANS. Nor do you know what "success" means in Plan B, much less how "successful" it is.

More importantly, NEITHER Plan A or B are appropriate for an ACTIVE ADDICT. BUT, you wouldn't know that because you know NOTHING about Marriage Builders, but strangely feel qualified to give newcomers advice. AMAZING! [think I will go over to the neurosurgery forum and give some of my "advice" - who cares if I know a damn thing about it or not? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />] These are plans for MARITAL RECOVERY, which is HOPELESS in the case of an ADDICT:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5048a_qa.html

I guess CS can defend it, but I didn't read her comment that way - such is the problem with communicating with text.

When she said, "pick a plan" and stick to it, I didn't read it as pick Plan A or Plan B, rather, pick a plan: ie. Come up with a killer [Plan A] that will work. Not all Plan A's look alike.

My 2 cents. But I don't get the Plan B reference, CS. There are no guarantees in life but death and taxes and taxes after death.

My suggestion to all, (I know I've done it) look over your post carefully and read it aloud in the PREVIEW section. Make sure it isn't making assumptions about how people will read it. Revise vague or unclear statements.

And stop bickering. This person needs help, not children slinging mud.

Sorry, thorstein, but there is ONE Plan A and ONE Plan B and she doesn't have the slightest idea what she is talking about. This new person does need help, not misleading comments from someone who only comes here to troll the board and knows nothing about the program.

She knows nothing about the plans and when she attempts to MISLEAD newcomers she WILL be corrected. COUNT ON IT. If "bickering" has to take place to correct her misleading comments, then bickering it will be. The person needs HELP, not misleading posts from a TROLL. That ain't gonna fly!

Thanks for your advice all! And thanks for that quote MelodyLane. I realize now that I have been wasting my time with a plan A. My WH does not want to go for treatment at this time so I guess I just wait and pray. He says that doesn't mean he will never get help but he won't right now.

ML,

I know there is one (trumpets please) PLAN A. Like snowflakes they are all made of the same stuff, but none of them are alike.

My WS's biggest EN is Domestic and Affection doesn't even register, then my Plan A will really focus on the household.

The focus for filling ENs differs. That is what I meant. You certainly have had more exp. on the boards (and I love your posts, BTW) so I will defer to you.

LosingHim, please give Alanon a try. That is your best bet for now. Your time in Plan A wasn't a complete waste, at least you gained some familiarity with it that may be useful in the future.

You might also give a call out to BrambleRose or Banyak who are in Alanon and know quite a bit about it.

So sorry you have to deal with this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

CS

i believe that through the many, many people they have counseled and shared their pain as they lived through this.....mr harley and the rest of his family have LIVED IT enough to know the reality of it.....you...have NOT

a doctor need not have cancer if he has studied the symptoms and the treatment and lived through the suffering that the victims endure in order to be an expert

Dying over here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

My WH told me last night that he is never coming home. He said he will never change, never get help and never get better. He just likes the drugs too much. Also he can never forgive himself for what he's done to me. He says it's over. I am devestated. I feel like I can't even breathe.

(((((Losinghim.)))))

don't give up yet,if you did a good plan A, then it's time for plan B.

read (mywifeilove) story.
keep fighting.

Tony.

I don't see how THAT is different than what HARLEY HIMSELF described as Plan A: Which I posted here for everyone's benefit.

Why not call a spade a spade************

Go back to what Harley said ************EDIT**********

You are correct. My meaning was this: Be consistent.

It's the only way to create the context for someone to effect a change in an undesireable behavior.





My reference was referring to Harley's comment that Plan B is extremely risky.

***************EDIT***********

I said: Plan A's are no guarantee of a saved marriage and the success rate of Dr. H's plan B seems to be even lower.

Either way you need to be consistent-pick a plan and stick to it.

Then you said: The plans are to be conducted IN THAT ORDER for a REASON. It is not a matter of "picking a plan and sticking to it." This is not the cafeteria program of PLANS. Nor do you know what "success" means in Plan B, much less how "successful" it is.


So we were in complete agreement at that particular point in time.

But earlier YOU said that a Plan A should not even be tried with an addict because it would not work.

Now I am really confused-Exactly what is going on here???

Are you disagreeing with me and trying to get me to shut up because of some personal reason?