My story short - D-Day May 14th. Working plan A really well for 6 weeks. WW wife is in fog, but D*MN it is hit or miss. Some days she will talk about our future and buying major things together (cars)then the next she tells me - I don't know if I could ever make you happy and love you again. Then we plan a trip together - I know about the FOG - I've read many many posts on staying the plan A course, but when I think she is coming to me, yep, back she goes. Telling me that she wants OM to be happy with his W. I tell her I understand that want/need, but what about our M? She tells me that she sees us together and then sometimes not. We are in the same bed and night, but no SF. She is very truthfull to me and THAT is what scares me the most. Her true statements about OM. I listen and then come here to vent!!!! Some days are happy, other I want to puke. PBOB has some great posts on this as I followed his story. Maybe I'm just here to YELL!!!!!!!! - to keep it from home.

that feals better - thanks

Haven't read your story... are you and her in MC?

NO CONTACT - NO CONTACT - NO CONTACT

Does that clear it up for you? When you get that in place, your life is going to stabilize alot more quickly than you could imagine.

I know - NC NC NC - I had talk with OM W and she is watching for this too. The last time WW and OM talked (phone about 2 weeks ago) WW told me and told me what they said. This is the truthfull part that I'm concerned about. Is it FOG or is she gone? I know that no one here can answer that, just me thinking too much. She told me that she had no desire to call him. I asked what she would tell him if he called her and she said the she wasn't sure. I asked that she request NC then and she said that she will deal with this her way. I don't want to push too much right now, but will push that again as time goes on. She told me that I have handled my part of this (plan A) in my way and doesn't see why I'm so calm. Then she adds that she needs to handel her side of this in her way and time frame. TOO SLOW for me. I know to be patient and that is why I'm here to vent. Oh, we have been to MC, but not anymore.
thanks again

I am sorry you need to be here. have you spoken to the Harley's??? Sounds like you need a road map as to how to proceed. Your WS speak sounds like typical "fog" to me... if there is a typical.
Make sure you are taking care of yourself... eat right, exercise.. AD's if necessary. You are dealing with one of the most stressful events that you will ever face (maybe even the MOST stressful). Take care of yourself as much as possible.
MEDC

M2L...

I continue to applaud your Plan A efforts, I believe you to be executing it like a pro...She is only 2 weeks out of no contact, so she is still very much in withdrawal and will be conflicted, hence the flip flop attitude that you are seeing...Eventually yes, you will have to push on the NC letter...That is NOT optional on this VERY narrow path...

I wholeheartedly agree with MEDC, that you should call one of the Harleys for coaching...They can and will help you lay out a very personalized plan...Will you do that, and if so, when?

Mrs. W

P.S. I'm pretty sure that I provided you with a link to the counseling center in one of your older threads...If not, just look at the top of the page and click on counseling center for the details...Let me know if you have any questions...

Thanks once agian,

I have been all over these posts and I see that I'm not any dif than others here. I do learn alot from other posts and sitchs. Sometimes though it is my turn to yell or complain. I think that PBob said it best when he said that it is hard to give love to someone who least deserves it. I do know that WW is hurting and confused. She tells me - I've never been in this spot before. Well THAT is good (never before) and DUH - me neither so I try to be stong for us both and I believe I am. Just venting here today.
thanks for listing.
If you are here with your own problems and not posting, please do so. It will help just to get it off your chest.

And counseling with the Harleys M2L...what say you on that? I guarantee you that it would be money well spent...It would probably even mean less need to vent...Interested?

Mrs. W

Mrs. W

My WW and I went to a MC about 4 times. Thanks to this site I was able to tell the MC the steps I have taken to meet my W EN and change myself (for me). She thought it was a good start, but the problem I had with her is that I was learning more and faster on this site than from her so I quit going. I know that my W would still go to MC if I asked her to. I belive she is trying to get the feeling back for me and move on from the OM, but she has her own demons to face with this. Yes, maybe going back to MC would help. I'm trying everthing I can without spending too much talk time on M or R and our future. All I have right now is the posts from thoughs who have made it saying it is so worth it. I like those posts and reread them alot. Mrs.W you seem to be able to talk me into things. Thanks

M2L...

I'm not suggesting MC with the Harleys...Let them determine if you guys are ready for that...Call the Harleys for YOU and help with YOUR plan...THAT is what I believe that you will benefit from...A professionally mapped out personalized plan...Call them!

Oh, and I can't take credit for any of your successes(ie talking you into anything)...Those belong to you...OWN 'EM! If you weren't in a place to receive help, nothing anyone could say could change that...You are doing great because of YOU!

Mrs. W

M2L,

I second and third everything Mrs. W and MEDC have told you. I am a FWW 5 months into recovery, and IMO, doing quite well (don't mean to brag, just very happy for it!). I can feel your pain right through this computer. I can also feel your wife's pain. Thankfully, thoughts of her pain no longer cause a trigger.

I'm curious about the type and length of your wife's A?

Any insight into fog, withdrawl, and all that crap, I'd be happy to help, just ask.

All my best,

KJ

Sorry about not replying yesterday, but I had to leave to pick up the kids.
Mrs.W - your right about me wanting/making my own changes. I guess I should have said that you made the suggestions and then I made the choice to follow them or not. I'm learning alot about ME in good ways. At first I thought if I get a D that I would never make it or never love or be loved again, but now I know I could make if D happens. I'm working my a** off though to improve me and my M and not have to be a D.
KJ - It was an EA. Co-workers for 4 years, OM was the pursuer. My W has a new job not with OM now. OM kissed her one days (years ago) she said something like - what was that - knock it off. Well when I wasn't meeting her EN at home she grew closer to him and OM had and still has major problems with his W. The true EA has been about 9 months. OMW is not taking this very well (I understand). I meet her for lunch one day to make sure she knew all that I know and she is still in the anger stage. I gave her a little advise about no LB just try to be his friend right now. We left it at - call each other if something major happens (more contact). Back to my WW - my W told me that OM told her that he loves her and my W said that she told him that too. Over the last two years my W has told me that I don't love you anymore, I'm here only for the kids - things like that. I didn't know what to do or how to take it. I had mother issues of controll and that bothered my W alot. After D-day (May 8th 06) I was mad, hurt and angry for about 4-5 days then I asked myself - if she (w) was happy with me then she would not have done this. Then I asked myself many questions about me and our M and about W. The changes I have made with me, setting boundaries with my mother (that was a long time coming)being more of a father than a friend to our kids - just plan growing up (I'm 36) have all be noticed by my WW and she says - why couldn't you have done this 2 years ago when I told you how I feel. I have no answer for that except that I was not ready then. Anyway- this is long because of the background. FOG talk, some days are very normal as long as we don't talk about R. If we do, she tells me that she has no feelings for me. Two days ago she tell me that things are warming a little. I say thats great and then she says that only means that she doesn't want to throw up when she sees me. WOW! I don't reply to this (no LB). Some days she wants to get passports so we can plan a trip this winter and then some days she tells me that she doesn't want either of us (me or OM) and that guys are just too much trouble. She tells me that she wishes the OM and OMW work it out. I ask her why she cares at this point and she says that she cares about him and wants him to be happy. Again I don't say anything for fear of LB. I let alot of her talk roll off by back. I'm trying to make it as hard as I can for her to not care about me. Two weeks of NC and she is also tiered all the time.
any more question just let me know. I love to hear from FWW.
thanks
M2L

[quote]M2L,

Thankfully, thoughts of her pain no longer cause a trigger.

KJ,

what does this mean? The cause a trigger part.
thanks
M2L

M2L,

This is KJ, I just changed my forum name today, long story.



During recovery, many things can "trigger" a BS or a WS into feeling things or thinking about things related to the A that are not pleasant. For example, when I read a post like yours, it used to cause me to feel your wife's feelings, like I was still in her place, her emotional time zone, if you will. But I am stronger now, and no longer slip back into those states of mind. I know now that what your wife is feeling and experiencing is 100% withdrawl and fog. If you remain strong and continue to make deposits (meet her EN's) into her love bank, she will eventually come out of this cruel state of mind. After she does, the guilt and remorse for what she did will more than likely consume her for a time. I still struggle with this, but as my self-esteem improves, I see this lessening too.

IMO, BS's often do not ever quite grasp the enormity of withdrawl and fog. I compare it to temporary insanity. I have a bipolar disorder and am a social worker, so I know a thing or two about mental illnesses. I described my moments of coming out of the fog like coming off of a major drug addiction. I now have a whole new compassion for people with any type of addiction. Your wife's OM is her addiction right now, not sure if you realize that or not, just thought I'd make the point.

I can't remember your comments in your other post to me, so I'll go there now and respond in a seperate post.

HN

M2L,

I am so sorry you are here, but believe you will receive some very helpful info. and insight into your M and your wife's A.

I have a few more questions for you if you don't mind? Are you and/or your wife in IC or MC? What have you and your wife done as far as reading everything on this website and other books by Dr. Harley? Is your wife willing to do anything towards recovery at this time? Would you consider obtaining MC through the Harley's? Obviously I'm asking these questions because I believe they all need to be addressed and follow-through needs to take place. I have a hard time talking to people on this forum who do not follow ALL of the Harley principles and policies. IMO, if you're going to subscribe to their theories, you need to go whole-hog, not half-a55ed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

If you have specific questions about what your wife may be thinking or feeling right now, I'd be happy to give you insight on this from my perspective. Keep in mind, however, I'm not your wife, and everyone's sitch is different. Whatever I tell you is based soley on my experiences and my opinions.

All my best,

HN

Well W just called and told me the she is indifferent to me and has no feelings and has felt that way for a few years. Just hanging around for the kids. She doesn't want to be with OM and certainly doesn't want me. She wishes I would move on and find someone new and be happy. She sees the changes I've made and likes them - says I'm not an a55hole anymore, but a nice guy and deserves someone to make me happy. She thinks we could be good friends maybe even a vacations together with the kids. Oh and the tought of anything physical with me makes her want to throw up. NOW WHAT? I asked her to call our MC and she said - how can someone (MC) make you chasnge how you feel about someone? I asked again to call MC.

M2L,

Your wife sounds a lot like me pre-A. I want you to take encouragement from this, as I now love my H and can tell him that for the first time in 16 years. SF has been great, something I never thought possible. I know the things she tells you are very disheartening and discouraging. Please don't give up, not for one second. If my H would have given me any indication he no longer cared about our M, I'd probably not have stayed. He poured on the EN's. Despite his own pain, he showered me with love and forgiveness. He made it safe for me to talk to him without being judged or lectured. I still don't understand how he did all of this, where he found his strength, but he did it, and now we're doing it together.

Do you make her feel like she is worth her weight in gold? Does she know how much you love her and want to save your M? I guess I know so little about your sitch, it's difficult for me to give any specific advice because of this. For now, take care of yourself, follow all of Dr. Harley's advice, and prepare yourself to wait for your wife to start coming out of the fog. According to what I've read, looks like you've got approx. 9 months until she's ready to really focus on your recovery.

More later,

HN

HN thank you.
I'm trying to be strong, but now I'm just crying. She wants it over because she feels like it has been over for her a long time ago. She keeps telling me that it's not so much OM, but the way i have been to her for so long. She is right about the arguing and my mother issues and I never addresed them until I took a good look at myself. I have changed for the better for me and now she wants me to be happy. Happy with someone who could give me happiness. She truly feels that she would like to see me meet someone else and be happy. I tell her that if she stuck with me for the last few years while I was not a great guy then please give us more time now that I am a better person. I just talked again to her about the kids and her tone has changed and we talked normal. WTF??? She says that she thinks I DON'T UNDERSTAND her feels. Is she right - that I'm holding on to something already gone or is she so FOGGED in that she is not clear in her thoughts? There's a question for you. She thinks we could make good friends after a D. I really don't see that happening - come on! I don't want to see her with anyone else. I don't want to meet my former family for dinner somewhere with any OM with her down the road.
Still hope or holding on to a dream?

HN, Mrs.W any other FWW,
My wife is making this an - I don't love you and haven't for a long time now sitch. I see it as she replaced me with OM for EN and now misses that addiction to OM and the good feels that come with it. A'm I worng? She keeps the two separated in her mind and tells me that i don't get it. So questions for HN: What happened to you for you to start loving your H again? If you were so far gone how could he change your feelings if you didn't want to try any more? You guess 9 months - does this mean 9 months of FOG or 9 months before I get her help in keeping this M alive? You said your H did most of the work and you don't know how he did it. Where did he turn for help IC, MC, the MB site? Can't you show too much affection and caring? By showering her with love don't i make her feel lacking in her feelings and therefore more hurt? How do I keep her around long enough to feel changes that she doesn't believe will ever come along? She say that we are good friends - isn't that a great starting point for love to grow? I do feel like starting over would be better, but I'm not there yet - I have too much to lose. Edited to add questions only

One thing M2L...

OM has a wife... even if he cheated on her, guess what, he's still there... so, just because she may be thinking about him right now, he is rejecting her by staying with his wife.

Maybe your wife needs to be a bit afraid that she may not only not get her 'OM' but she might lose her husband. It's not a game, it's real life. I'm not saying threaten her, but, just maybe, your wife needs to wonder a little bit about what is going on inside your head. Quit reacting the way she expects you to. Stop wearing your emotions on your sleeve. Make her wonder, what the ****** is he up to? Don't be a jerk, just don't be an open book. Laugh when she doesn't expect you to, and when she questions, just say you were just thinking and thought of something funny. Let her wonder what you are thinking about.

Guess who she's thinking about then? More importantly, guess who she isn't thinking about.

Suck it up now. She is home, trying to maintain no contact. Quit wimpering around. I know it's hard. Be a man about it though. Go lift some weights, mow the yard, change a part in your car, fix something around the house. Do man stuff, stuff that makes you feel good and when you get done you can say, grunt, me man, me fixed that!

-hang in there