"I am glad that someone put a stop to my digging. I doubt that I would have stopped."

It's sort of like picking at a scab, I guess.

Keep picking at it and it remains a seeping, partially healed wound.

Stop picking at it, put up with the itching for a while, and it eventually heals.

The size of the remaining scar depends on how much digging you did at it.

With prayers,

Honeygirl,

AS you have been told your H is on an emotional roller coasters. The paying for the hotel room is a huge trigger, but as has been pointed out it does not represent a new betrayal as such. It just hurts him that YOU paid for it to betray him. Please do as the folks that have posted to you suggest. Be steady and be honest.

You said a few things I thought I would respond to.
Yes you do, but it isn't just about the TWO of you working on things and here is why I am drilling you about facing the reasons you had the affair. You are still trying to dodge the bullet on this one and you cannot. Your next paragraph is precisely why I am on you about finding out what you got out of it, why you violated your vows.


Allow me to follow Mr. G and paint you a picture. It is MY picture and I hope it illustrates what I am driving at.

I was a batchelor for many years (married at 31). I had a very good batchelor life <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> and enjoyed work, travel, women, etc. I then met the woman I was to marry. I took and take marriage very seriously. I recall standing at the alter with about 600 people in attendence and taking my vows. I realized then as I do today that I was not only promising her to love, honor, cherish...for better or worse, but I was promising both of her parents (God rest their souls), my parents (only one of which remains alive today), my sisters, brother, friends, her family and mine these things.

In over 30 years I "think" I have kept my vows. I say I "think" because I don't know if she would agree with that statement. You see she may or may not realize that I love her, she may or may not recognize that some of my decisions were for the best, she KNOWS I am not perfect. In short she cannot read my mind, and I am sure at some time my actions have probably made her wonder about my vows to her.

BUT, there is ONE vow that I KNOW I have kept because it depended on me alone. She had nothing to do with it and that was fidelity. It can be argued that breaking any of the vows damages a marriage, I won't argue. But there is only ONE vow that is totally in control of the one making it, fidelity.

Now here is the part you need to understand. As I stated I had a very enjoyable batchelorhood. I know my way around in a bar, dancing, making small talk, etc. I am NOT a Don Juan, but I do know something. I also KNEW that I would spend some if not a lot of our married life traveling without my W. Now I have and still do feel I could withstand temptation, but I also know it is a lot easier to not eat the box of cookies if you don't buy them. So realizing my lifestyle, realizing what temps me, I devised a plan.

When traveling I would NEVER go any place there was dancing (too many single or hoping to be single women). I would NOT go to a bar by myself. I would dine with a group of people if such an occasion arose but not alone with a woman. In 30 years of traveling as much as 3 weeks a month, now less thank God, I adhered to that plan. I travel, I take books with me, I take work of course. I do my work, eat dinner at the hotel or some restraunt mostly by myself. I may have a glass of wine, and then I go back to my room where I read, work, watch TV or whatever.

It has worked. I could claim great moral superiority, but the reality is that I have not been tempted strongly because I did not put myself in positions where any weakness I might have could be tapped.

You need a plan as Mr. G says. But, your plan must be tailored to your weakness, your failings, your dreams, and your plans for your marriage. Hence you need to understand why you have made the decisions you did. Why your morals were not even considered and if they were why they failed you. But, mostly you need to understand situations where you MAY be vulenerable and avoid them.

You and your H need to make many plans, but in the case of fidelity it must be YOUR plan. Because you alone hold the key to the vow of fidelity, not your H, not your OM, not some other circumstance...JUST YOU.

What you may not realize is that people here are not piling on you. We are trying to get you to hold the mirror up and really look at yourself. If you don't recognize yourself how can you protect yourself?

Does this make more sense? I hope so.

God Bless,

JL

HG:

I will tell you from experience that you will be well served to listen very carefully to everything the JL has to say. I have seen many of his posts and although he does not share the pain of having been betrayed or the shame of the betrayer, somehow he understands issues better than almost all from both sides.

I have followed your thread from the beginning and just wanted to point out a few things. I see many similarities between you and my FWW. She was a virgin when we met and devout catholic. Cheating went against everything that she believed, had been taught, etc. But, for whatever reason, at her darkest hour she made the same choice as you and went down that path of no return. Her built in defense mechanism is similar to yours. There are a lot of things that she just cannot find an answer to and she has been totally honest and forthcoming since D-Day almost a year ago. During the first six months of the rollercoaster for a BH, the highs and lows can come almost back to back. Unfortunately for your dear hub, time, prayer and a lot of spent emotion is still needed to start this healing process but until you fully own this event in your life, you are only delaying his recovery. There was no reason for you to make the decision that you did, not naivity, not lonliness, not a slick talking OM, nothing. Something in you became corrupted. At that point, you chose to betray not only your husband but everyone in the sphere around you just like JL said. You cannot change that event. You cannot justify it. You cannot even imagine the physical and emotional pain that your H is going through right now.

But, if you want redemption, you can help your husband by doing the following:

1) We he gets a trigger, regardless of how silly that trigger may seem to you, be compassionate with him. Agree to avoid anything that might be a trigger.

2) When his rollercoaster starts the downhill slide, don't make it worse by trying to justify anything. Assure him that you are there for him, anything that he needs, and beg him for his continued forgiveness for your poor choices.

3) Focus on what you can do to improve your relationship with your H every second of the day, regardless of his mood. Don't expect anything to be bilateral. He had to carry most of this burden to this point. Now it is your turn to carry his cross.

4) Instead of focusing on all the reasons why you slept with OM, start focusing on what character flaws you have that allowed you to make such a poor choice. Why were you willing to risk everything. Tell your husband what you thought honestly when this was going on. Did you think you could have your fun and he would never find out? Where you thinking of leaving your husband and this was your venture out into the new world? Was your self esteem so low that you needed to boost it by being admired by a total stranger?

5) Make a plan of how that you intend to assure your husband that if he will stay will you, that you can start to rebuild the trust in your relationship. Accountability, radical honesty and pure self sacrifice on your part are the only chance you have of saving your marriage. It has to start with him hearing as often as he needs to hear it that there was NO JUSTIFIABLE REASON for your choices and you are truly sorry that you made those choices and will do whatever it takes to try and make your new relationship one that is based on trust, true intimacy, and absolute committment to each other.

NT

HG...

As someone who can share these painful steps with you, I can't help but agree with NT



This is the one thing that I find truly helps my H as he continues to struggle with the emotions that he is going through. Be sensitive to his pain while answering his questions. The truth can sometimes be blunt...think before you speak, speak the truth but speak it kindly....

I noticed you started another thread...concerning telling the OMW...I think that for now..you need ot concentrate on setting the record straight with your H...and working towards recovery. Yes part of the recovery may include the OMW, however, that should not be where you are concentrating your energy right now!

Good luck and stay the course!

I agree with 2Crazy, HoneyGirl...

I think you need to focus more on your M right now and worry about OMW later. It's a noble gesture (and an important one for personal recovery) but I don't think you're in the right headspace yet. The curiousity you have about what OMW "is like" will not allow you to write a true, honest apology at this point. Wait a little while, and in the meantime maybe write in a letter/your journal about what you are feeling right now and why. Getting those feelings out will help you with your own personal recovery.

Hang in there!

Katie Mae

Hello all,

I have to get back to you all with my comments on all your postings. Thanks very much for your insight and advice. They are all extremely valuable and have helped me a lot.

However, things are not going well. My H is very decided to end this marriage. He told the counselor on Friday that he wants a divorce because this is never going to work. He is a very resentful person and he doubts he can forgive me. He is not willing to accept that I made a mistake and he doesn't believe that I am truly sorry and I am being honest.

The counselor and other people as well have suggested that we separate from each other for a while instead of immediately jumping into a divorce. I don't like the idea that much because I have a lot of fears about it, but at the same time I think that just being together has become impossible and we are both hurting each other by just being around and by anything we say or do. What is your take on separation?

HG,

What are your fears about separation? You haven't said once that you want to fight for your M, so what is worrying you?

Do you really think your H is a "resentful person" or do you think he is protecting himself from further emotional pain from the person he loved the most who betrayed him?

Honeygirl, what do you think about your H's beliefs... that you are not truly sorry and are not being honest... remember, he just found that hotel charge recently. While that is done and gone from your mind, it's still quite fresh in his.

Your post doesn't seem to express the sadness, desperation or disbelief that a person might feel if their spouse was ready to seperate from them. YOU sound resentful, because your H can't accept that you "made a mistake."

I'll ask again... what are your fears surrounding seperation?

Of course I want to fight for my M! I love my H. Sadly, I do think he is a resentful person. He has admitted he is and I know that he has been resentful with other people in the past, including his parents. I also agree that he is also protecting himself from further pain, and I understand that.

About the hotel charge, he knew that a long time ago. The recent discussion about that was that he thought that if there were no bad intentions, I should have charged it to our VISA and not to the other credit card that I own. Anyway, yes I understand that he does not believe anything I say.

I may not have expressed it in the post, but I am desperate and extremely sad with the fact that he want to divorce me. It is just so hard to describe what I am feeling right now, it goes well beyond desperation and sadness...it is my H, how can I feel if the man I love tells me he wants a divorce?! I know it is my fault, but still, I repeat, how can I feel if the man I love tells me he wants a divorce?!

Fears! Wow, I have many fears...that we separate for some time and he does not want to come back with me, that he finds out he does not love me anymore, that he meets some other woman that he is capable of loving more than me, that at the end we might actually get divorced...all those are fears that I have. But at the same time, living together has become almost impossible. We keep hurting each other so much because at the moment we are anything we say or do, no matter how simple, hurts like crazy. Even when I love having him by my side, I think neither of us are happy and in peace being together. I think about this saying: “If you love something let it go, If it comes back to you it’s your, If it doesn’t, it never was.” Maybe I should not be selfish and allow this separation, thinking about his wellbeing more than anything because I hate seeing the extreme pain he is going through. He has all these triggers that remind him of what is going on, and I believe that I am certainly the main trigger for his anger and depression.

HG,

If you don't feel that seperation is a good idea... and you want to continue working on your M... then I would tell your H this. Since things seem to be pretty rough right now, maybe you need to change the way you are communicating with one another. Maybe you need to show your H how much you love him and want to work things out. Bake him a pie... buy him a present...write him a love note. Show him that you are serious about working on yourself and your M. Have you been reading any self-help books? I know you are in IC, but maybe you should be doing some work at home, too. Show him that you are trying to grow from your mistake.

Is your H in IC as well?

KM

KM, thanks for your comments and suggestions. I have been doing those things too. Cooking, writing love notes, and other cute stuff. I am reading a couple of books on the subject too and I am going to counseling with him, but will start soon going to counseling on my own.

[color:"red"] About the subject of separation, I just want to know if other people have tried it, and whether you have tried it or not what is your opinion about it. I don't like the idea that much, but if it is something that can prove to be very helpful, I am willing to try it. [/color]

HG:

I hate to always be the negative one posting on your threads but I think this is an important subject to give the perspective of the BS. I do not consider myself a resentful person, on the contrary, prior to D-Day I was quite the optimist and although I did/do tend to carry grudges against those whom earned them, it took a lot of doing to get on my sh*t list....now fast forward to D-Day.

As a BS, especially a male BS one of the things that is not talked about enough in personal recovery is the feeling of helplessness that is part of the recovery for the BS. As a cuckold, we did not have any choice about whether or not you chose to have your fling, we did not have any choice about whether or not that fling continued, etc. Not only were the choices not ours, but the control was not ours either. You made the choices, you controlled the situation...period. Now society has made us believe that the primary responsibility of the husband is to provide for and care for our family. As part of that, there is some implied assertions that we are responsible for everything that happens to our family, good or bad. Now, our supposed partner makes choices to extend our family and include another person in that family, without our knowledge, permission, etc. All of the sudden, we feel like that we have failed our responsibilities as the head of the household because you made choices that included bringing another person into our relationship. That is a very hard pill to swallow for most men. Call it male pride or whatever, but I will bet that this is the primary reason why that men choose to end the M after an A. Not the event, but the personal failure for them to control their family and provide for them.

Unfortunately, the only choice that a BS has after D-Day is making the decision to recommit to the marriage or to move forward with their lives alone. Dr. Harley and others suggest that it is the BS's decision alone. It really doesn't matter if YOU want to save your marriage, if YOU will be lonely, scared, lost, devasted..whatever. For the first time in this whole ordeal, your BS decision to either stay in the marriage, seperate, divorce, murder, is the first choice that he has been able to make. It really has nothing to do with resentment, it has to do with regaining the personal control and choices in HIS life without regards to you and your needs.

As much as I like to see couples reunite after an A and achieve the true intimacy in their relationship that they probably didn't even know was possible prior to the A, I respect the BS's choice on what to do with the rest of their lives regardless of what that choice is. You need to have the same respect for your husband. When you chose to start down the slippery slope that led to an A, you in fact were making the choice that your own needs at that time where more important that your H, your family and everyone else. You made the decision, whether you knew it or not at the time that your pursuit of this fantasy was worth losing your husband. You gambled your marriage, and you may have lost. Just how the cards fall, but we all reap what we sow.

Presuming that your husband does follow through with the seperation and ultimately divorces you, should you still follow a plan A for the rest of your life. Absolutely, you owe him no less. Maybe after you have lost everything, you will finally realize what you had and made the choice to gamble away..and whether he comes back to you or not, hopefully the next time around you will have learned a lesson that true love and intimacy has no room for secrets, lies, and placing your own personal needs above those of the R.

Resentment....you show me any BS who doesn't have it,every day, sometimes every hour. I watched The Notebook this weekend and cried like a baby. True love, both fighting through all lifes trials and then getting to die together. I cried because I feel the same way about my FWW now, maybe I always did, but as the movie progressed I was projected myself into that situation some time down the road. I appreciate what I have now, I resent what happened to get us to this point. Do I have a problem reconciling those two feelings?? For sure, but I know in my heart I cannot change what happened. My FWW cannot change her choices. She cannot even in deep honesty say that given the exact same situation with a do over, that the path that she chose would not be the same. What we can both say is that we have created an environment that is now "affair proof", that is based on true intimacy and raw radical honesty, and that I made the right choice in giving our relationship another chance. But I will tell you that it has been a long, uphill most of the way, journey and if I went back to D-Day again, I am not sure that I would have made that same choice...it takes a huge effort for both to recover a marriage and it was just hard with plenty of triggers, resentment, pain along the way. The rollercoaster of recovery is the devil's bidding to undo what is possible to achieve if you try hard enough. But I have to say that if my wife had similar attitudes early on in our recovery process as you have expressed on this and other posts regarding your focus on you and your denial of the pain that you have caused, I most likely would have taken the same path of your BH. And I certainly would have resented being called resentful when I made that choice.

NT

Perhaps separation is the answer although I have a very hard time believing that. I have an alternative for you and your husband to consider. I suggest that you spend a couple of bucks and call Steve Harley. As with any major diagnosis a second opinion is always the smart way to go. I will assure you that Steve is very pro-marriage. He will advise your husband and you in such a fashion as to best preserve the marriage. He will paint the picture of truth and understanding and that is something that is sorely lacking.

You are on the eve of a very dark day and it must feel to you that this train wreck cannot be stopped. As you ponder giving in to your husband’s push towards separation consider the signals that you send by agreeing.

You said:
“If you love something let it go, If it comes back to you it’s your, If it doesn’t, it never was.”

That is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Where do people come up with this junk? How about this,

“If you really love something NEVER let it go, cherish it always or before you blink it will vanish and all you will have left will be the memory”.

I strongly urge you to act on the latter and not the former.

Do not give up, fight for your marriage.

Mr. G

Hello all, I feel so miserable. I think I am going through a very difficult phase in my life and I feel that I have reached the end of a tunnel with no exit. I am afraid that I have symptoms of depression. I even think that the A was probably a symptom of something that is going on with me long before and not the other way around. I just want to be happy, and I just want my H to be happy. It is horrible to carry this pressure on my shoulders, knowing that I hurt the man that loves me more than anyone in this world. I will be attending IC next week because I need to solve these issues and be happy before trying to make somebody else happy.

Depression can lead to other problems. It can make people desperate to reach out for help in ways they normally might not. If your depression is really bad, talk with your counselor about anti-depressants. Tom Cruise might have a problem with ADs, but the majority of the world doesn't when it's managed correctly. BTW, wonder if Tom is hiding his wife because she has post-partum blues?

HG,
Please consider what I am about to tell you.

"To give happiness to those around you must first take care of yourself".

This seemingly simple statement is packed full of implications. Everyone will be beyond your assistance until you address YOU.

To make your husband happy, do the things that make you happy. Sometimes that might be buying your husband his favortie candy bar. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Please think about this.

Mr. G

HG, How are you today?