We all need a hill to die on, I pray that mine is the hill on Calvary.

Saul of Tarsus persecuted the Christian church. He arrested, imprisoned and killed people for what they believed.

Yet Jesus himself appointed Saul, who was later known as the Apostle Paul, to be his man to spread the very gospel that he defiled and hated. I can imagine how offensive it was for those families who had suffered at Paul’s hand. Even the other apostles did not want to accept him at first; until Barnabas spoke up for him.

Acts 9:26-28
26 When he came to Jerusalem, he tried to join the disciples, but they were all afraid of him, not believing that he really was a disciple. 27 But Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles. He told them how Saul on his journey had seen the Lord and that the Lord had spoken to him, and how in Damascus he had preached fearlessly in the name of Jesus. 28 So Saul stayed with them and moved about freely in Jerusalem, speaking boldly in the name of the Lord.

At some point, someone (Barnabas), had to make themselves vulnerable, to see what Saul’s (Paul) intentions were. Those who could not do that ,stayed away from Saul. What would have happened if no one ever trusted Paul (Saul)? Most of the New Testament would never have been written. And yet we are all using his letters to condemn people in (IMHO) a situation similar to his. It is also my opinion that God uses our issues and our victory over sin as our weapons for his glory.

This a quote from Pep and I whole heartedly agree with it.


Where would NBII be if she wasn’t allowed to even start plowing?

As I have been reading all of these threads, I have noticed a number of very good people looking to leave from both sides. And people with good advice leaving, because of a few, A FEW, who come on to MB seeking advice for their marriage (even though it started out wrong) is probably the greater harm.

Yes the greater harm is being caused because good people are leaving. Because when those good people leave, their experience will no longer be available for a “legitimate marriage” in trouble.

Trolls come and go, people that are not really seeking help here will eventually leave. People just looking at justifying their A will eventually leave. People will start to help them and eventually figure out what's real. They were coming here when I got here (SNL) and they will continue to come in the future. They get weeded out.

Really, I believe the only thing this will accomplish is to teach those who’s M started out as an A not to reveal that fact. Besides, I think agree with committedandlovingit, there are probably more marriages that started out as an affair marriage here on MB than we might care to admit. And at this point, I doubt that they would not want to admit it either. I think they would just rather keep it a secret and keep giving good MB advice.

Yes I feel for the BS who is triggered by someone coming here whose M started as an A, but I also know, that this maybe the place, and I maybe the person, that helps them reconcile with God, because that is God’s #1 priority; reconciliation with him. And I’d hate to be the one to have to answer Jesus when he asks me why I turned someone away who was ready to turn to him.

Very few are beyond God’s reach, and I’d just as soon stick with the examples the Harleys set.

I am reminded of a song by Casting Crowns that says “Jesus paid much to high a price for us to pick and choose who should come!”

JMVHO

Bless you all.

S&C

No DJ intended to anyone around here. I would just like to opine that among those that actually do end up interpreting the bible situationally as much as anyone are the avowed literalists and fundamentalists.

I don’t know why that is, and I assume no one here today is like that. It’s just what I often observe.

Here is something I don’t understand:

Mt5:32 “But I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, excepting for the cause of fornication, maketh her to commit adultery: and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery.”

“Matthew 19:9 "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery." (NASB)

John 4:16-18 “He said to her, "Go, call your husband and come here." The woman answered and said, "I have no husband." Jesus said to her, "You have correctly said, 'I have no husband'; for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; this you have said truly."

Seems clear enough to me. I don’t need to interpret, fudge, change shade or ignore any of these words.

IMO, there is no way any of the above can be interpreted by a studied Christian to approve of or support the continuance of an A marriage in any way. Such a marriage is not only continuing adultery in and of itself, but it literally and very clearly leaves the original BS in the position of committing adultery if she should ever want to marry again, ever.

So, in what scripture is biblical advice to help make A marriages better/succeed grounded in?

Forgiveness? Has no applicability to what Jesus actually said about continuing adultery and its consequences. In other words, an A marriage is continued adultery, by definition. Forgiveness requires turning from sin (the adultery). Thus, an A marriage = continued sin = no forgiveness, not even if the burden of sin is finally becoming onerous to the WS.

Correct me if I am wrong. I love to learn.


BTW, FWW left right after DDay 2 to be with OM. She said God would forgive her ending our M this way and marrying OM since they loved each other and He meant for them to be together, even if it took years for others to understand.

Is that the essence of what MB is being asked to buy into lately?


Now, anyone want to discuss Pauline privilege?


Ed: The above is just the Christian moral view of A marriages. There is also an agnostic, purely ethical, view of A marriages that concludes they are wrong and should not be supported in any way. They are bad for society and bad for the community of marriages and families in general is part of it. For example, D’d women with children need welfare much more often than not. So, society as a whole should not support wandering procreation of any ilk. Not even in serial marriage.

This is EXACTLY Bob's nightmare....

On NBII's thread ... a current WW asks





she'd like to divorce and marry her A-partner....

someone IN an affair marriage care to tell her why that is a BAD idea?

Bob .... you're worst nightmare <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Pep

"Well, I married my affair partner, and the parish priest has blessed us ... so it can work out"

PHOOEY <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> ... welcome to affair-marriage central

yukky meter in the red zone .... someone talk me down !

Pep

Sorry but what is WW?

it's you honey

WW = wandering wife ... an adulteress

I knew it was me but didn't know what WW stood for. THanks for clarigying.

"Well, I married my affair partner, and the parish priest has blessed us ... so it can work out"

We shall see.

We shall see.

Besides, I don't believe you. I don't know any priest who would do this unless he was lied to (probably by omission.)

First:



Then:



Yeap, there ya have it Pep.

Next generation of MB membership dominating the boards, Affair-Marriages.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

Unfortunately there are parish priests who will do this. My wife's OM and his affair marriage partner got an annulment so they could marry in the church. It's sick.

WAT's XW married her A-partner in a Catholic ceremony (I think)

Pep

wow. according to my XWH today...WE'RE STILL MARRIED...lmao.

He slipped.

He said "we've been MARRIED a long time now"..in PRESENT tense...oh well read my thread..and rant...

so does that make me the other other woman? lmao! I DID buy a tshirt this weekend after listening to a band that said "it's all about ME". My xh still believes OUR MARRIAGE IS VALID...AND APPARENTLY IN THE PRESENT TENSE ACCORDING TO HIS LITTLE FREUDIAN SLIP TODAY...oh well. should I tell the affair wifey? the wistress? should I tell her that I AM TAKING THE OTHER MERCEDES...I do like his car better than mine...darth can drive mine for a while. Darn it. I guess I'll have to stop dating...

And no...I'd not call any church a church if they marry their affair partners.

And for a church to allow the wedding they'd have to NULLIFY THEIR VALID MARRIAGE to do so? What is this? The first church of satan or something?

Aphelion, I read those verses the same way.

SAC, your illustration of Saul when he became Paul would be a very apt description of the welcome that FWS's and soon-to-be FWS's receive here. Sometimes it can be a little uncomfortable, but we learn so much about each other.

Where that illustration does not apply to the A-marriage situation, is that Paul had to actually stop killing the Christians before fraternizing with them.

Asking forgivness and receiving it was not enough. He had to completely cease from the behavior that had brought God's condemnation upon him.

I would love to see any of these A-wives leave their lives of adultery behind, and fellowship here as new creatures in Jesus.

I have not given up hope of seeing that happen.

FH - it may be a misuse of scripture but it is an accurate observation. Why do you find that statement so offensive? An affair marriage surely is built upon sand. Affairs always inevitably end right?

Yea but they'd have to repent...and sin that particular sin NO MORE...

that means not sleeping with their affair partner...albeit their now husband...and righting any old wrongs.

But in reality, i learned my xh's ow didn't want to do the REAL FULL REPENTANCE THING..why? IT INVOLVED SELFLESS GIVING...she's not into that. It's all about her. She would have to do the following: 1)give up the luxury cars 2)give up the credit cards 3)quit buying clothes and plastic surgery 4)GO TO WORK 5)quit hanging on the internet all day pretending she is watching her 2 year old daughter and 6)quit having the servicwes of a nanny/maid/at the Vader Playboy Lakehouse Mansion.

Repentance sadly for most of the OW is uncomfortable..IT CALLS FOR A SACRIFICE...and they don't like that much. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I am a bit mystified Fh - I really am. I am not sure I disagree at all with anything you said. I am confused.

Of course I believe in justification by faith - I have said nothing to contradict that. Works are a result of our faith - being doers of the word, but Christ's atoning work on the cross was complete. There is nothing we can do to earn it.

Now we clearly do differ regarding affair marriages. My understanding is that there are actually at least 3 mainstream views about divorce and remarriage. You and I clearly happen to subscribe to different viewpoints - all of which are scriptually supported. Your belief is different to mine and certainly your belief is not the only one.

Personally, I believe that for a believer to remain in an affair marriage means they have not truely turned from their sin because they are still in an adulterous relationship. Your opinion is different. So be it. But your opinion is neither more or less valid or scriptural than mine. Nor is my opinion any more valid than yours.

My personal abhorance for affair marriages in the context of this thread is the damage they do to the suffering BS's represented here.

Agree JP.

I don't post much because I'm not very articulate, but I've posted about this subject before because it's so disturbing to me, so here's my 2cents.

It would be a tragedy if anyone on this board knowingly spent time helping someone continue or improve their A-marriage. Others, like Aphelion, have done a great job of expressing the Biblical view on A-marriages and why they are wrong in God's eyes. Yes, a person can be forgiven for any sin, but only if that person repents and turns away from the sin. If the person continues in the sin, then they are not really repenting, and as a result, there is no forgiveness yet.

Let's take another commandment as an example: Thou Shalt Not Steal. You steal a necklace, feel bad, and ask for forgiveness, but you keep the stolen item and wear it every day. That's not repentance, that's continued sin. The same applies to an A-marriage.

I'm stunned by those in an A-marriage who try to use God, the Bible, church, a priest -- anything related to Christianity -- to justify their A-marriage. I would be too afraid to do that.

I'm sure there are churches and priests who allow A-marriages to occur, or who say the A-partners can be forgiven AND still continue in the A-marriage, but that does not make it acceptable to God. No church, or priest, or person, has the authority to rewrite God's laws and commands. (If you're unsure of God's express views on A-marriages, read Aphelion's post again.)

Imagine standing in front of God on judgment day and saying... well, I know you made it clear in the Bible that my A-marriage is wrong, but Mr. Priest said it was OK and I decided to follow his word, not God's Word. That won't excuse you or the A-marriage, and on that day, you don't get another micro-second on earth to make things right.

We all have choices. I choose to never knowingly be involved (in any way that may harm the marriage) with a married or separated person, no matter what the circumstances or my reason. I choose to never, ever, ever, for the sake of my soul, enter into and stay in an A-marriage no matter what any priest tells me or how much I "love" the other person. I choose not to spend time knowingly helping anyone improve or save their A-marriage. (I make a distinction between helping the A-marriage and helping just the person so they can see the damage they have caused and start repairing it.)

IMO, the limited time we each have on these boards would be better spent helping those in legitimate marriages overcome the pain, devastation, and horrible consequences of adultery and divorce.

I hope this board remains true to its purpose of fighting adultery, even when the adultery is now an A-marriage.

So if I divorce my wife for a reason other than adultery; the next guy that marries her commits adultery? What about her? Why doesn’t he say the she commits adultery too?

Or if I divorce my wife because she fornicated; it sounds as if she is free to marry again. based on thhis scripture, it seems that God would recognize the divorce and that we would no longer married.



Does this only apply to the man? It doesn't specify if the wife wants a divorce.


Where did Jesus accuse her of committing adultery? He seems to have recognized that she was married five times. Other wise why wouldn’t he say “You have correctly said, 'I have no husband'; for you have had one husband and five adulterous relationships”. Do we know anything about the other five men?

Just some questions that make you want to go hummmm.

S&C

Nev,


With all due respect the purpose of this board is "saving marriages".

Blessings.

S&C