Thank goodness for people like Lynn G, Tigger, LaBelle etc. I echo what you all say. We have C and have since nearly the beginning. There is still embarassment and I don't imagine that it'll ever go away. Is that a reflection on the OC, no it's a reflection on the WH and the OW. This was NOT a happy, planned event and will never be portrayed as such. Does that mean OC will not be loved and taken care of just like our other children - - NO.

Mom - you're way out there somewhere.

TH - It's still in my not so humble opinion all about ME, ME, ME.

Nut,


Nut, I have no agrument with this statement. I agree with your feelings on this.



Lynn


I am not upset that you want to protect your children. I was upset about how you referred to children conceived from an affair as “gum stuck on the bottom of my shoe that needs to be scraped off’.


Not as much as you may think. In the case of GH, if OWH wants to be the dad, I think GH would be wise to let go and let all these families heal. There was a time when I thought OW was going to hook up with someone I respected at the time. I seriously considered letting go.

What does rattle my mind is why some of your ladies thinks it is so easy to just cast away one of your children. You claim to work so hard to protect your children, why would I not do the same? You can give me all the reason in the world about how my daughter was conceived from an affair, yada, yada, yada

But she is STIL MY CHILD JUST LIKE MY SONS and I am obligated to look out for her best interest too. Just as I am my W and sons.


My best guess is that MOM wanted GH to know whom he was dealing with. When MOM posted, I wanted her to know that I agreed with her position. From there, it just seemed to snowball.


I never claimed this was a wonderful event. You keep implying that I did.


Lynn, if you had stated it just like the above, I might have taken what you said and really thought about it. I not saying I would have agreed, but you would at least have my respect for your position.



Lynn, there are at least two occasions that I can think of that you attacked me. When you do that with the vile attitude that you did, you put a BIG BULLSEYE on yourself. I wanted to see whom I was dealing with. Prior to your posts to me, I had no idea of who or what you were. Once I saw the “gum” post, I knew you were somebody not to be taken seriously.

As far as “snipts”, I am not sure which ones you are referring too.


Two different issues here; Yes he is in a mess, and you were also being disrespectful.


Then perhaps you would be willing to apologize for the disrespectful comments that you have made about children conceived from an affair?

I too look out for the best interest of all my children.


Not sure why you see the OC as an embarrassment. Your H is the embarrassment. He did the deed. How does that shame transfer to the child? I understand why you would be angry at your H and OW, but I don’t get the comments about “embarrassing OC”. You said your self the OC is innocent, so why the disparaging remarks?


Well you were quick to lump the assumption on me that I ONLY loved my daughter. I ALSO VERY MUCH LOVE MY SONS AND WIFE TOO! My W sees the OW and me as the ones who were guilty. My daughter is now just one of the kids.


Tiger



Well, things are pretty good. I have ZERO contact with OW. It has been this way for a while. The legal paperwork is done and there is no drama with OW.

My W still gets mad and upset from time to time, but I do my best to reassure her that I LOVE HER and have ZERO intention of running off with the OW.

My boys seem to love their sister. She seems to love them.

As far as what I am doing to repair the damage:

I make sure my W knows I LOVE HER.
I make a real effort to show affection.
I make time to listen to what is on her mind.
I make an effort to understand what she is feeling.
I do my best to be home on time from work.
I have read many of the self help books here that are talked about.
I make a real effort to fill my W’s 5 primary needs.
When she argues with me, I tend to see it as her trying to connect with me rather than me just seeing it as disrespect as I had in the past.
I try to include her in things I like to do. We are still working on recreational activities that we can enjoy together.


On a side note:

All of our friends and family know what has happened.
Now a lot of couples that I had thought were rock solid don’t appear to me as such anymore. I look around and “see” what is going on. Many of these couples have also asked my W and I how we managed to “get things on the right track”.

If we have made lemonade out of lemons, then it is this. We have given many other couples hope and guidance on how to fill each other’s primary needs and have a happy M.

Most of the time it involves telling them how the books His/Her Needs and Love And Respect really changed both of our thinking and the way we act toward each other.


As far as MOMto3boys:

I agree with her positions and statements that I have seen on this tread and the GH thread.
I also know that does not mean that she would have agreed with me, or the way I ended up handling things.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for a woman who shows compassion for a child/children who were born into this type of situation and took them in as if they were her own. I think the H’s of these ladies should consider themselves beyond lucky.

TH

ANY H who has a wife who will stay with them after an A and OC, should consider himself lucky! Whether they have C or NC.

It is an indefensible betrayal of the wife and marriage.

Jenny,

If this is gentle, then I would hate to see you with a hatchet. :-)

But more seriously, you have made some accusations about me that I would like to address:


I have the right to express my feeling about my daughter just as much as anyone here.
I have found that there is a lopsided view about no contact from many. Some even talk about children like mine as somewhat “less” than COMs. I find it repulsive.

Does that make me angry, Yep, sure does, and here on this forum, I going to give a piece of my mind about it. I got plenty of “pieces of mind” from others here. If they can dish it out, then they can take.
As Lynn would say “no pussyfooting here”.

With the exception of Lynn, I have tried my best to be civil. That courtesy has not always been extended to me here at MB.


I am not familiar with the movie scene you are referring to. But before you preach to me about disgusting behavior, I would like you to point out where it is in the GH or Mom and TH thread.

Do I realize that I made a lot of BS mad on the H wants C, W wants NC thread for expressing how I felt about the OW at the time, YEP! I admit, I had a he!1 of a time trying to get her out of my head. I do LOVE my W and I let her know it on a regular basis. I will NEVER get ANY of my children out of my head. Yes, I can LOVE my wife, my sons, and my daughter all at the same time.


Yes I have felt guilt for what I have done to my W and Sons. I have also felt guilt for what I have done to my Daughter. I have done my best to keep all of my family together. I admit, I have not done it the “text book” way. If I had a chance to do things over, there are things I would not do again. In the end, my W knows that I LOVE HER and will continue to try and be the H I should have always been. She has also become the W I have always wanted too. We have learned a lot together over the last couple of months.


She has, and I have. I don't know if I can express how grateful I am.


I'm big enough to buy that one :-)

TH

TH,

Now, was that so hard, to let us know WHAT steps you have and are taking to rebuild your M? I also know what you mean about taking the "bright" side of this in how it's helped you be helpful to other couples who may be close to a marriage meltdown. We've done the same thing over the last 6 years.

Now, can I give you a little more advice on a couple things here? First, your comment about the boys "seeming" to love their sister. Well, as they get older, things may shift. Be prepared for that. They are still quite young, and as they get older, they will become more protective of their mother. I'm not saying anything WILL happen, just be prepared if it does.

I also don't think that your W's issues when she gets angry have very much to do with being worried that you will run off with the xow, but with the constant reminder of the A when the topic of OC is brought up, or visitation and things like that. You keep talking about your obligation to "all" your children, well, she only has 2 that she is obligated to. She is still in her healing process, or rather the greiving process. Do you know the steps? If not, you need to find out, because she is greiving over the loss of what she thought her M was. You need to help her through those steps. You need to be putting your W FIRST.

And, finally, NONE of these BW's have ANY obligation to the OC at all. In their minds, especially those who have NC, the OC is no better to them than any other child at a playground. Do they wish those children any ill will? Nope. BUT, will they go out of their way to bend over backward to make sure that NO ONE treats them differently than their own child? NOPE. It's not that they hate the child, it's that they hate what that child represents in the damage that was caused in their M. Just as in my own situation, any BS who has contact with the OC is a very strong person. I have nothing but the utmost respect for my H, especially when he and our little Abbi are playing, cuddling, or just hanging out. He didn't have to stick around. He didn't have to say that he would raise her as our own child. He chose to take on the added responsablilty of another child 8 YEARS AFTER what we thought would be our last child!

If you are wondering why SO many oldies recommend to the newbies to go NC, it's because it's SO much easier to repair and rebuild when you don't have that extra added reminder of what caused the damage in the first place. For many, it takes at least 6 months post D-day to finally get to the point where they might be able to consider contact. From what I recall, you were barely half way to that 6 month point for your W, and you were already pushing contact, if not with your W there, but at least for your boys. Even when she wasn't ready, and many here were telling you to not push it. That's why you've gotten the responses here that seem so harsh. Most, if not all, of these women KNOW what your W is feeling.

Finally, as for your knee jerk reaction to Lynn, well, she's been there, done that, and is through with their financial obligation. She's seen what a sucess it was for her family and children to do things the way she did them, and strives to help others. Yes, there are times when she seems cruel, but re-read the above statement about the kids at the playground not being held in as high regard as your own children, and the fact that the OC is not your W's obligation. For Lynn, and many others, the only way they could heal is to view the situation as just that.

Again, thank you for sharing the steps you've taken in rebuilding your M. Keep up the good work, and remember that your W should ALWAYS come first, even above your boys.

TH - you are aware of how you praised the OW and criticized your wife - and that you have corrected that behavior toward your wife now.

But I have yet to see you acknowledge the THREAT that you laid out for your wife if she did not cow-tow to your demand for contact, right at the beginning. You threatened to divorce her and harm your children of marriage - destroy THEIR home in favor of this OC.

This is where you DEMONSTRATE - IN ACTION that you do not love your children equally in action. This is the reason betrayed wives feel the way they feel toward OCs - because they know that in the minds of their unfaithful husbands the children of marriage are LESS than the OC - by their actions, YOU have demonstrated this as well. That is a monstrosity - Not Lynn's indifference toward her husband's affair child.

TH - Go and pull up THE ENTIRE thread of where I say that remark about gum on the bottom of the shoe. You must have searched quite a bit to go back that far....how odd...how very other womanish.


I have nothing to apologize for in my feelings for oc' when it comes to the marriage and the COM in them. The oc is not part of the family, and therefore is not a concern. Not my child. That is where those of you who create these children need to get a clue. This is not your wife or your childrens cross to bear. You act as if the biggest wrong here is a wife not wanting to have the embarrassment of the oc around. What a deluded, self serving load of crap. Somehow you want to see yourself as wonder parent, so full of love for all. Thats a load of manipulative garbage that has been spewed here for years. The issue is you cheated, and created another child and expect everyone else to clean up the mess. IF you want to fuss and cry about how "unfair to the oc" or "I love all my kids" yada yada yada, go ahead. But the fact remains is that child is a result of your betrayal to your family. How you can expect that poor wife of yours to be all happy about it is deluded and cruel.

You sound like every ow's dream man.

MOM........ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Lynn,

When I first saw this statement back in my old posts, I thought you were calling me a woman. I thought, thats odd.

I admit it took me a bit to figure out what you were really saying. You think I am an OW.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

TH

No. I mean that you are other womanish.

You and Autumn sure seem to think you know what I think. She with her declarations are so amusing, considering......

I say you are other womanish, in that you feel that the oc supercedes all.

Your old posts....why did you take them all off?

Oh, and I hope your recovery goes well. Be gentle with your wife, you have hurt her terribly.

Hey, can we drop the fighting? There are people that are new to this board that don't need to see this. Lynn has her points and TH has his. End of story. Let's get back to helping the newbies. I believe we all have a purpose for being here.

faithfull follower....I agree!

I was posting and did not see the above.
I will do my best to play nice.

----------------------------------------
Yes Lynn, I know I have hurt her badly.

No I don't think OC is MORE important, I feel she is JUST as important as my Sons. Thats it.

As far as my old post; That was in protest to what I felt was abusive admin powers. I felt if my statements were going to get edited, I would just delete them myself.

Unlike when I attack you for whatever happens to rub me the wrong way. I did not feel I personally attacked the gentalmen who suggested a woman get an abortion. I was very blunt about my position on abortion. When I posted to justuss, all I got was the terms of service argument and then tread was locked. I felt it was unfair.

I then went and found another board to be a part of.

In hind sight, I kinda wished I had not gotten so mad and did that. Maybe there was something in those old posts that could have been helpfull to someone. There is nothing in those old posts that my W does not know.

The only thing that made me start to post here again was that Kimmy asked me to post to GH and Poyuit. Like you, I too have a desire to help people.

TH

Lynn~

I don't presume to know what you think. Your statement was right there in black and white. BTW, the statement itself didn't bother me. I'm so used to those kind of comments from you. When you throw me for a loop, is when you say something nice.

And what declarations did I make that you find so amusing?

And considering what, Lynn?

I'd like to hear the rest of that sentence.

The others have asked the "fight" to stop. SO I will.

I would think the considering...... would be quite obvious.

Kayla,

I not sure what you want to hear. I have already said that I did not do things the "text book" way. We can debate till "the cows come home" about what I did right and wrong and who I placed "more value" in yada, yada ,yada ....

There are many things I could have/ should have /should do differntly.

In the end, I LOVE MY WIFE and FAMILY and have no desire to leave or screwup again. My W has said she has forgiven me and wants to move on TOGETHER. So do I.

If we are lucky, we show others that there is hope of recovery. If I can turn my thinking around, that should give hope to a lot of people :-)

Tigger,

Here is a question I have been wanting to ask.

What would you have done had your H said:

1. Get an abortion?

2. Adopt the child out?

BTW, I will keep my eyes open about sibling problems in the future. I would like input about those who have chosen C and had good and bad experiance in this area.

TH

ITA <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So considerate of you.

But not without getting one more dig in, right? ...


Oh you mean the part that I'm a *F*WW? Have an embarrassing OC of my own, so I'd have no right to be embarrassed if my H had an A/OC?

Last time I checked, this forum is open to all people dealing with the situation of an OC produced by an A, (even if the A was their own), and want to re-build their M. Just as someone such as your *F*WH would be welcome.

I have a voice here too, Lynn. And other than the play on your name in my post to CH, (which I later edited), I have stated my opinions respectfully and honestly.

Just exactly how much penance does a WS have to pay in order to be all square in your book? What if I said 50 Hail Mary's a day, AND single handedly located and captured Osama Bin Laden all by myself... would that help me any? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Will my opinions or advice ever carry any weight with you, or will there always be this caveat by my name?

~~~~
FF~

I apologize for continuing to "fight", but you placed your request AFTER she made her remark about me, and sorry... just wasn't going to let it go, even though the more reasonable side of me said to, lol.

Only by the grace of God's protective hand on our little Abbi was she NOT aborted. Almost immediately after I took the P test I was looking in the phone book for a clinic. I thought I had found one and called, and low and behold, it wasn't a clinic, but a Christian run support for Crisis Pregnancies. They did their best to talk me out of the abortion, and that combined with a phone call to my parents changed our minds. Then, you ask about adoption, well, I was willing to do whatever it took, including adoption AGAIN, if it would keep my M together. If you look at "vowsrsacred"s thread here you will see that I have already given one child up for adoption. Any other questions, please feel free to ask. I'm fairly open about most things here.

Hey Aut,
What's up with you?
Can you e-mail me?

TH I agree with what Tigger and the rest have said. Take it from someone who has been there a short time before your wife.
I take exception to many things you say but will address ONE>

Why on Earth should your wife TRUST you when you say you no longer want the ow?

Because YOU said so?

She may be agreeing on contact for fear of tearing up her married family because of your insistence that 'all of your kids are equal'

In your wounded wifes eyes, THEY ARE NOT.....

Please take that into consideration.

Any oc is NOT equal to what a wife and her children are to her HUSBAND!

To think so is to rub salt into her bleeding heart way, way, before a true recovery can begin.

Let the oc go!

Use techniques to heal and soothe your wife.

Let her be the one *with* you to decide.

Allow her enough time to catch her breath for goodness sakes!

At least 6 months before your ow's kid invades her life.... Please~ (it is how your wife sees oc, believe me~)


If she cannot fathom the seemingly nice-play ow you have (agreeing to everything), then it is up to her to decide first with your input later.

You tout what you have done, but believe me, the first thing my H had to do to me was prove that it was myself he wanted over all else, not oc..... you know? The gum on the shoe theory is pretty adequate, it feels like that. Something you just can't lose.

And you usually don't for over 18 years and lots of -pay -cuz- you -played money....

I could go on way too much, but your wife is the one in a flurry of emotions.... no matter what right now, your unyielding opinion on seeing oc... right this minute.... is probably excruciating to her at this time.
Ok done for now...

It seems as if you still don't 'get' what pain you have caused.. speaking for MrsTH, of course.

Debi