I'm totally lost. My H and I have been married almost 10 years, and I feel like I am in ******. This my 2nd M and his 3rd. I find it hard to even start this post. Where do I begin? Our problems are just that OUR problems, of cousre my H thinks they are all me. I have learned so much from this website, but still can't seem to figure out where to start. I am not even sure that I want to save this M. But we have 2 beautiful kids that didn't ask for any of this. I read about the states of mind in M-- I have been in WD for a long time. He goes back and forth between WD and C like a pinball. It makes me dizzy. We can't even seem to talk about the weather any more! We are at this point because of financial reasons, living with MIL. She and I get on great. She doesn't choose sides- thinks we are both ridiculous. Our financial situation is mostly due to my H. We have the IRS crawling down our throats and stand to lose everything we have. He is an abusive man. He verbally and emotionall abuses me with nearly every breath, and is mostly neglectful of th kids, when he is not yelling at them too. He is supposedly ADHD and BiPolar and uses this as a crutch to say and do whatever he feels like. I know they are both serious conditions, but he seems almost happy to have been diagnosed with both. He feels no responsibility for his actions at all. He says his only problem with me is that I won't sleep with him. That has not always been the case though it certainly is now. Just the thought of it makes me want to vomit. I do have issues from my childhood that have a huge bearing on sex. I don't deny that there are things I need to work on in that arena, and many others in fact. My typical response to his long list of LB, most notably the SD,DJ and AG!!!! is to walk away and ignore him. It is killing him that I won't fight with him any more. But I refuse to fight and I refuse to be verbally abused and intimidated any more. I am so tired of the smirking and the waving of hands and the voice being raised to the point of being deafening. I deserve more than this. My children deserve more than this. I never knew it was possible to love someone and HATE them at the same time. There is so much more About our situation, but I am running out of time. I cant check my emails very often, because I don't have the time- but would appreciate any advice. I know that I am not perfect, but no one is. I am trying to be as nice and respectful as possible to him in response to what I have already learned form MB. But I don't know what else to do. If it weren't for my children, I would be so gone. It would devastate them. But living the way we are has to be bad too. What is the answer? Please help me, I wish I could scream but I am afraid once I started I could never stop.

Hello Striving4,

welcome to MB.
I'm sorry you find yourself in such a difficult situation.

I'm not quite sure why you talk about withdrawl.
Did you both have an affair that you both are currently in withdrawl from?
Or do you use the term in a different meaning?

It seems obvious to me that you both need HELP, and that this situation will not heal or "go away" on it's own.
What sort of help is your family getting right now?
Family, counselors... ?
Is your H getting counseling or is he willing to go?
Is he taking medication for his condition(s)?

Please give us some more info on the steps that have (or have not) been taken.

What family can you and your children go to to get THEM away from such a person....????????????

What is YOUR plan????

and what does it mean if it weren't for your children you would be so gone...

it is because of your children you SHOULD be so gone...

which is NOT giving up on your marriage..

but it is taking the first step in breaking this current cycle of which is damaging and NOT working....

in efforts to build a REAL marriage...

same old same old isn't gonna get you there..

time for change...

as scary as it is...scarier is thinking living the same way you are today...
tomorrow
next week
next month
next winter
next spring
next summer...
and so on and so on and so on....

lets figure out a plan to get you and the kids outta there...and then work on rebuilding a marriage...

ARK

Whoa, wait a minute there ark.
you know next to nothing about this woman, other than "she's really unhappy with the way her husband treats her."

I didnt see any danger to her children written, so why are you saying she should get out "for the children"?



to "striving": there is presumably a reason why you posted in the "infidelity" area. Why dont you tell people more about what YOU have done wrong also, rather than just "my husband is so 'abusive' to me..."

you might also need a reality check. Some women are very quick to call verbal treatment "abusive", when a less emotional analysis might describe the situation as "we disagree/fight a lot, and I dont get my way as often as I'd like".

PS: just "ignoring him" isnt a good solution.

Saying, "I wont be yelled at. When you are willing to talk about things calmly, I will be willing to talk also", and then putting distance between you, is a better "marriage building" approach.

"He verbally and emotionall abuses me with nearly every breath, and is mostly neglectful of th kids, when he is not yelling at them too. "

Doesn't sound like a comfortable home to me, Techie. And she wants to vomit at the thought of sex with her husband.

"And she wants to vomit at the thought of sex with her husband. "

Gee, dont most WW's say that too?

striving4: there's a lot of help for you here, no matter what side of things you are on, BS, or WS. (i'm still guessing that SOMEONE in your marriage has been sleeping around, since you posted in the infidelity forum. and given the way you have described your husband and your opinion of him, I'm also guessing it is you that has been doing it)

As I said, there's lots of help for you here. But you can only get truely useful help, when you tell the truth about your situation. Without exaggeration. Without deliberately biasing things.

"He verbally and emotionally abuses me with nearly every breath,"


come on now. there's virtually no way that can be literally true.

It sounds like you are in a very stressful living situation, this much is clearly true. That makes it tough to be straight about things. But its also when it's the most important to be. So that you can get the most accurate advice from others, and so that you can most clearly apply it as appropriate.

How about you take a deep breath, count to ten (or maybe 100 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) and then tell us some accurate truths.

It sounds like you are very prone to exaggeration. Maybe in a "fog". But if you really believe what you are saying, how about you try keeping track of every sentance he says to you over the next two hours you are together.
keep a small tally somewhere:

# of clearly directly "abusive" sentences
# of "other" sentences.

post the results.
It would probably also be helpful if you posted specific sentences from him that you find abusive.

Some people have a tendancy to hear one thing, but misremember and then repeat it in a more offensive phrasing, when they dont like someone. I hope that you can avoid that sort of trap, and perhaps write down word for word the abusive sentences, as soon after he says them as you can manage.

I wish I could get someone I know to come on here and describe what living in this type of home...what being yelled at by a verbally (he can't talk about the physical abuse, can't get past the emotional part of it yet) has done to him, his life, and his inability to have a healthy relationship.

This person I know literally cannot have any type of conflict with another. Any type of conflict or angry raised voices floods every ounce of his being with emotions so strong he cannot handle them.

The emotion he describes is fear, terror really... and leaves him in an inner emotional state verbally described as his inner child being rolled up on the floor in a fetal position, sobbing in fear. This is what he feels like inside as a 47 year old man whose verbally, emotionally abusive "dad" has been dead for 30 years.

I agree with Ark and Believer...children should never have to live amidst this type of emotional terror.

I have responded to you first because you responded to me several times. Thanks for listening. I did not mean to post in the infedility forum. I don't much know waht I am doing. This is the second time I have treid to repond to you. It keeps telling me the form is no longer avail.??? I have never had an A, EA or other. I don't think my H has either-yet. Though I know it is in the works or was. About the exxageration part- I don't think I am prone to it however I did exag some in my post. I was very angry at the time due to an email i had rec from my H. He is not dangerous to me or the kids. I honestly did not mean to imply otherwise, tho I guess I did. He is verbally abusive tho not with every breath as I said. We just can't seem to talk at all anymore except by email and a lot of the times his emails are filled with LB as well. If i don't respond to them - he gets angry. If i do - he gets angry. He wants to fight and I refuse to fight. However, he has for the lst 2 emails been trying to talk and obviuosly trying to curb the LB. All since my post. I am trying to respond in kind. He is very hurt and angry about how I filled out my LB and EN Q. He responded by filling out his LB Q in a very hatefull and ugly way, tho he still has not filled out his EN Q. I tried to get past the ugly words and hear what he was saying tho. his underlying theme was that he felt ignored and unimportant. I have since made a big effort to not ignore him. I was ignoring him completly. I do want to save this marraige and get past the hurt we have caused each other all the years. I feel that maybe his last 2 emails have given me a glimmer of hope. I am afraid to type much more if I can't get this to post so I will try to send this. Thanks so much for being honest and listeneing.

okay that post went through so i will try some more. I grew up in a home with an abusive, cruel stepfather. I do have issues with sex and I have tried to get help. The EN Q was very difficult for me to fill out because I have always believed that I have no right to have ENs. I have addressed some of those issues, though not all, in therapy but it is very difficult because we have no mony for it. Honestly, I also came to a point with my last therapist that I was probably afraid to go on, because it brought so much to the surface that I felt like I was going crazy and started having panic attacks. It was awful. I know that a lot of our problems are my fault and for the first 9 years of our marraige believed it was all me. However, it is not ll me and I can't accept full responsibilty for everything anymore. You have to realize this goes against everything in my nature. My husband is very skilled at the 3 most frightening (to me)LB. From his Q , I realize that my biggest thing is I shut down- completly, totally. It is a natural to me as breathing. I understand that to him this LB of mine that I have learned at such an early age as a defensive strategy is probably just as devastating to him. As to the ADD/BiPolar, my H is getting help for it. He is on meds and sees a phsyciatrist about every 6 to 8 weeks. But he only sees him for meds and does'nt talk to him about how he feels or what he is going through. My H has no freinds that he is close to. I think he sees(or used to see) me as his only friend. That ahs put incredible pressure on me and made me feel completly smothered. This is probably another thing I am doing wrong. I am very shaky myself emotionally and don't feel strong enough to bear all of his burdens as well as mine. I know that this is the wrong way to feel about this and I have always been the opposite --I would ratherbear every one else's burdens than even take a glimpse of my own. I have a big thing about honesty HUGE. It has been very difficult for me to come to grips with the fact that my "not saying how I rellay feel,etc. is also a form of dishonesty. It was very distressing to me to find out that one of the most despicable traits is one of my own. Gotta go, I'm at work. Will try to come back later.

I have to say that my tolerance for living in a world where another human being calls me grotesque verbal names....
over and over and over

IS NILL

that crap was for my early twenties.....
when there where no children....


and that if I was living with a person who continually does that I would be GONE
till they GREW up and learned to control their mouth..

Bipolar doesnt' excuse it
unhappiness doesnt' excuse it
NOTHING excuses it...
it's a choice.....
over and over and over..
and it defines a person....

I'm not saying end the marriage..

but the first time someone calls me a horrific name..
shame on them..
it is a complete communicator blocker stopper and diversion..
silly stupid and immature....

second time I stay around for it shame on me..

THIRD...time
I am an active participant....
giving CONSENT that it is OK to call me names....

the day I would RAISE my children with that type of person..is the day you might as well shoot me...

what else is going to wake this person up that what is happening right now
isn't working....

what...
beg and plead for counseling

this couple needs SERIOUS counseling...and if he's NOT willing.....
then why waste one more minute

sorry life's too short for that...anymore...

ARK

Thank you for responding Ark. I don't like the way he talks to me, though i will say that for the first time he is trying to talk without all of that. We are in a terrible situation, I agree. We both agree that if it weren't for MIL we wuld probably have divorced long ago. She has told me repeatedly that I was a "better woman than me I wouldn't take it" She also climbs his frame pretty strongly every time. She tells him that she did not raise him to be that way and that she is dissapointed in him. She is also quick to tell me when I do something wrong. I do feel that my H loves me, I think that just like a lot of my issues come from childhood, his comes from being adopted. It si so har d for him to understand where I came from- He was adopted into a loving family and had a "leave it to Beaver" childhood. But what (I think) haunts him is that his birth mother already had one child whom she kept, but not him. He has always known he was adopted, has a birthday and adoption day every year- even now. His birth mother has always been referrd to as "that nice lady". She did what she thought best for him. But I think he feels that he is always on the brink of being rejected, sent way. It is unfortunate that the woman (me) that he married also comes from a place that has left scars and we seem to bring out the worst in each other. Exp: His need for acceptance smothers me. I do want to work out this marriage and it may not work, but I feel we owe it to the kids and to ourselves to try. The kids love their daddy very much and it would escp ddevastate our son if we were to split. When he does spend quality time with them, it is beautiful to watch. But my H is someone they will never come to with a problem because he blows up. I don't feel like I'm giving consent to be called names. When he starts that, I just walk away. I don't know what else to do. We are so financially intertwined there is no way either of us could make it on our own at this point. I'm not so sure that we should IF it can be worked out. I appreciate your repsonse, though and thanks for caring.

I agree with ark on this one...the abuse has to stop...

I don't care if it's only "intermittant" abuse. It must stop...and she should protect herself and her children as necessary.

Treating another person like dogpoop...even if you never strike them IS abuse.

striving..

you can make all the excuses you want..

adopted...yet he lives with his mom...
bipolar....
yaddi yaddi yaddi...
except he's a grown up with children...
that in itself should be a great catalyst for change...

yet he chooses the same path..over and over

except here's the reality...

he chooses to treat you this way...because he CAN control himslef...

he doesn't treat his boss, coworkers friends salespeople or anyone else in the world this way...

JUST YOU>...

he chooses it every time...
I am NOT saying give up on your marriage...

I am saying...

get out of the line of fire by removing yourself...completely

let him do the WORK he MUST do....
to be able to be a loving adult....

you can't fix him
you can't fix any of this...

he chooses it over and over and over and over........

it's INSANE to stay where you are.....

nothing will change till you give him a wake up call..that says..

NOT ACCEPTABLE in my world...

ARK

Thank you for making it clear to people that there is no "immediate danger" to you or your children.

I think that you might want to start over, with a fresh thread of your own, in the "General Discussion" -> Emotional Needs forum.

It's unfortunate that your husband got to read your questionnaire first. It would have been better if you both did it at the same time, to encourage honest answers.

That being said:

1. it sounds like he really is trying.. although he's very hurt by what you have revealed to him about yourself. It's ok that he is hurt: he is allowed to be hurt. But also try to make him understand that you are not trying to devalue him or undermine him... you are asking him for HELP, by giving him your answers.
(I am giving you the benefit of the doubt by thinking that you did not actually word things negatively against him. you MAY have. you may have made some disrespectful judgements against him in your answers. particularly given your current state of mind. if you have, I suggest that you reword them, and apologize to him)

2. He DID fill out his questionnaire. he may have worded it badly... but I bet that there was truth in there also. Try to look past his hurt, and see the truth behind his answers. If he gets to a calmer point, maybe ask him if there are less hurtful,more clear ways he could word things for what he needs.


So.. i hope that you try out the emotional needs forum.

i also hope that you start learning to press (enter) every once in a while to make paragraphs. makes for easier reading <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sorry, I'm not very good at this. I was thinking about what you said about how I filled mine out and I think you may be right.

Thing is I'm not very good at explaining my feelings either. I had a very hard time filling it out at all. I am just a mess totally. I can't seem to think straight about anything.

I will start a new thread under EN when I can.

I think he is trying. We have been emailing back and forth and the last one was a little sticky (not nearly as bad as some have been) but I still did not give in to fighting-- just told him repectfully that I was angry and hurt by this one and would wait to respond till I calmed down.

The problem is we both feel like the other one doesn't hear us, isn't listening, etc.

Am I not hearing him? I am trying to.

"Am I not hearing him? I am trying to."

I dont think you are hearing him fully right now. But the most important thing, is that you are trying. AND, he is too.
Dont give up. This could be a major positive turning point for you both, if you bulldoze through your own issues.

One thing that I think is in common for your situation, and actual infidelity issues, is that it takes ONE person to first clear themselves of the hurt (or at least the bad reactions from it) before both can heal.

in an affair situation, typically, the betrayed spouse has to accept being a pincushion for a while, to lead the other one "home".

If you are willing to suffer the jabs from him for a while longer, while at the same time, learning not to jab back, then things could progress for you both I think.
people jab more, when they are being jabbed back. it's a feedback loop. take away the retaliatory jabs,and the frequency will hopefully lessen (although not go away)
I know you said you were "withdrawing", but i'm guessing you're still jabbing him now and again.
It will take time, though. a very noticable painful amount of time. Weeks.

I for one, if it means anything to you coming from a stranger :-) am proud of you for still looking to improve things in your marriage, instead of just running away.

I think you are both "on the edge". but you're still up on a place where you can get back on a road to safety without mountain climbing gear <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> The road may be a bit of a trek back across the desert. but it's walkable.

PS: you MIGHT try to arrange for yourself a little peaceful time to yourself. To calm down, and also do something that you find beneficial. Revisiting the questionnaire(s) right after that, might help with your phrasing.

If your husband isnt comfortable with you going somewhere by yourself, try to figure out something that can reassure him by you being "together but separate".
An example, would be going to the gym, and doing excercise bikes. He can see you, so will not be panicing that you're out seeing some other guy. That will be a benefit to him.
At the same time, it isnt really possible to talk (and thus ARGUE) while you're on stationary bikes, or stairmaster or whatever. So there will be non-conflict time, which is a win for YOU.

You may not have a gym membership; thats not important. i was just giving an example of "together but separate".


Another example might be setting aside an hour or two at home for one or both of you to read. Not a relationship book: just a totally fluff, enjoyment-only book. If you used to like to read, this will be a great one for you, if you can arrange for the kids to be doing something quiet and not bothering you :-)

"I still did not give in to fighting-- just told him repectfully that I was angry and hurt by this one and would wait to respond till I calmed down."

Good job!!!


"The problem is we both feel like the other one doesn't hear us, isn't listening, etc."

various self-improvement books, say that you should first seek to understand, before seeking to be understood.
Maybe you need to completely put your issues on the shelf, and really try to understand him. there are various techniques on this, but some of them are,

1. try to restate what he said to you;
"So, I'm hearing that you feel [...]. is that right?"

2. Ask for more details, to show both that you are listening, and you care about what he is saying, and really want to understand it!

example: he says, "it really pisses me off when you do X".
you can ask him back, "What about X pisses you off? is it that when I do X, it makes you feel like [...]? Can I do X in a different way that would not make you feel hurt?"