I just read Eav's post as she described her current feelings and her viewpoint regarding her WH.

I have a more HOPEFUL response to provide to her.

I've been asking myself is that OK? Is that HELPFUL?

I also have been posting to SLAMMED and also have a more positive view than those that have been posting to her.

There are folks saying stuff like the divorce will happen, get over your husband, move on, etc.

I agree with the need for ACCEPTANCE of the PRESENT CIRCUMSTANCES.

I do not agree with GIVING UP HOPE.

To me that's the ESSENCE OF DEPRESSION.

I believe in HOPE and FAITH.

Of course, I am biased because I have reconciled with my H and we are happy.

However, what is definitely true, though, is that my situation SEEMED HOPELESS and yet I DID NOT GIVE UP.

I'm thankful that I did not give up HOPE or else I feel that I would be DIVORCED TODAY.

So I'm wondering is my viewpoint helpful here?

It seems different than the viewpoint of many others.

I'm not asking this for any kudos or pats on the back. I don't need that.

I'm really wondering about this.

mimi,
I am in agreement with you. My belief is that without hope we are not lost but dead.

Not sure how to describe what hope means to me it's like blanket hope, I have hope for everything, nothing specific.

To be honest, if my H divorced me tomorrow I would live with the knowledge that I was D but I would still have hope for the relationship.

Hmm maybe that is just my belief system in general.

Hope this make sense <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

mimi,

I think hope is one of the primary things we CAN give people here. MB was founded on that hope....that marriages COULD be saved...even marriages that were thought to be hopelessly compromised by incompatibility, loss of love and infidelity. Dr. Harley offered both hope and plans to revitalize and rebuild marriages. That was the kind of hope that people were starving and searching for....that was missing in so much of the counseling community.

I don't know slammed's situation.....but I know eav and while I believe it's important to offer hope....it's also important to recognize how marriage isn't the only thing that she might be hopeful about. I think she has much to be hopeful for....her life, her future all sorts of things. But there is a time to let go of hope for a marriage when everything that could be done....has been done. It's just as easy to develop hopelessness when you use every bit of your energy towards one thing with no results. At some point....it becomes healthier to rechannel some of that hope, and use some of that energy to rebuild your own spirit.

Don't stop being who you are mimi....you are wonderful...sorry about the kudos....but I had to say that.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

mimi,

You know that saying: "When God closes a door, he opens a window." There is alot of HOPE in that message too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hope is energy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

and it creates energy.

I work with many cancer patients. And I am always hopeful...but I am also a realist. I offer alternatives to them as well...macrobiotic diets...seeing nutritionist as well as following oncologist's plan to a T...and reduction of stress...but I always tell them that we're working against a silent enemy. We don't always know how it will come out...but these things will increase your odds fighting it!

Now with regards to a person here on MB who obviously has issues with depression? I see something more here. I don't agree with you constantly saying how your marriage was saved...as NOT ALL PEOPLE HERE WILL HAVE THAT HAPPEN. Sure...things could change for many here. But I say to them hope...YES HOPE...but DEAL WITH THE PRESENT EFFECTIVELY RIGHT NOW. If not, their heads get stuck in the clouds and they never PROPERLY DEAL WITH THE HERE AND NOW.

Never be without hope. But Mimi...I sure do think you've mollycoddled this one sitch. her issues are pervasive..more than just the H...she is severely depressed to the point where she is not wanting to go to work now...dislikes her job...and rethinks everything SHE DID IN THE PAST...she isn't moving ahead in the now..and that is sad. She could have such a fulfilling life...but needs to DEAL WITH TODAY...MASTER TODAY...FIND JOY IN TODAY...and that is simply not happening. I am a mom of an elementary school child. And I also have a very close girlfriend who teaches special ed kids...she has her masters' in it...and she got burned out two years ago. She graciously stepped out..said she needed the wind to go back into her sails to be a truly effective teacher as the job was very emotionally demanding..and she is mentally a healthy person to begin with....she stepped down and taught third grade for two years..and she is back this year teaching the special ed kids now. I shudder to think that my child could be taught at school by a teacher WHO DOES NOT WANT OR LIKE THEIR JOB...it makes me scared a bit...It would be like me....disliking my job and that would scare the hades outta my patients if they even knew it.

There are some things Mimi that you cannot fix. That you cannot change. That all the good advice in the world simply cannot bandaid up and heal right now. That would be clinical depression and that would be her marriage right now.

Who knows? In the future maybe it could change. I don't really post to her anymore b/c I have said again and again to her that she must learn HOW TO LIVE NOW...HOW TO EMBRACE TODAY...and work through this darkness first and becme healthy...and then when she's recovered? Then make the effort to see if there is indeed hope for the M and try again. The ball is always in the BS court as for what to do. But right now? Deal with what is happening now...today.

Hopefulness is much needed...BUT WITHIN THE CORRECT CONTEXT MIMI.

and mimi...I am NOT saying to NOT mention how your marriage was saved...just to mention that in the right context...and not use YOUR sitch in situations that are not similar over and over.

But keep on being helpful here and loving and kind. You are very much needed.

It is always a good thing to hold onto hope that one day things will take a turn for the better, but I think that it can be detrimental to forget that the person posting may need to recharge themselves before getting back into the trenches with WS.

I know that the time I have spent being separated from WH has been good for me; I had been working toward the M for such a long time that I really couldn't repair myself, there was no time for just me. My situation is a little differnt, as WH is not currently in affair, but he still suffers the fogginess from the feelings the affair allowed him. I, however, feel much more clear now, and WH has started to talk about counseling, possible reconciliation, as well as his shame for what he has done. I am hopeful TODAY that resolution will come, but at the time of our separation, when WH was not talking, I felt pained, cloudy, and lost; I FELT hopeless. Hope wasn't very helpful in the moment; more helpful was guidance from you, and others here, so that I could focus on the things that I could change. I will forever be grateful for your focus and attention in a time when I was holding on by a thread, Mimi. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hope is good, but some situations require more, require guidance to heal thyself. It is easy for me to remember the suffering prior to now, as it is so fresh for me. You probably have a sense of peace and yes, hope, that many may not have now, and that is great, and you should never feel suppressed by that! However, tempering hope with reality can be very helpful.

Post deleted by Detached_Care

marriage is NOT inappropriate. It is ordained by God. It is a noble cause to heal ones family. I have myself seen people remarry and have witnessed people divorce for stupid reasons (like mine). I have seen three people remarry...

but here is the key...and the other poster tempinsanity basically said it right...

WHAT HAPPEND during the separation is key to a possible recovery some time in the future. If the BS is working on themselves..if they are emotionally healthy,...if they have honestly addressed the issues in the M and improved them...if they have honestly addressed issues within their OWN LIFE AND IMPROVED THEM...and if they can indeed find the joy of living in the present. I'd give their odds a significantly higher chance of possible future reconciliation.

I don't see any of our efforts here as "wasted effort"...It is NOT! But there is a time when we must all here, BS or WS ask ourselves...have we improved ourselves? Are we committed to NOW working on ourselves? Or are we going to sink back and spiral downwards? Without giving it 100 percent to healing US FIRST?

Some people here need loving toughness and for somebody to say this...You are a GOOD PERSON...but you could become GREAT. have you truly worked on YOUR issues? Have you improved yourself? Life does NOT end when a WS walks out the door. Not at all! And the ball ALWAYS REMAINS IN THE BS COURT FOR PLAY!. For some people here...it may indeed be best that they first WORK THRU THEIR ISSUES THEMSELVES ALONE WITH A THERAPIST AND COUNSELOR...before going back to save the M. We don't have a direct window into the lives of the posters here...we are NOT therapists. We see only what they choose to post and go from that.

But I have the utmost admiration for my own counselor. H...she was incredible! And she read all of harley's stuff. She is a toughie though. I remember her telling me even as I prepared for the impending divorce...she said something along these lines like this...Peach, you're go through some serious changes...for the better even. You're healthy but you are gonna become more healthy as you CONTINUE TO REALIZE YOU'RE A WORK IN PROGRESS...and you become the best you that you can be. Sometime in the future, you will decide to date again. Could be next month...could be next year. And when you're healed from this...the guy could be somebody you don't know, somebody you knew, or even your xh if he gets his s#it straightened out! But the POWER LIES WITH YOU...YOU DECIDE IF YOU'RE GONNA BE BETTER AFTER THIS OR A VICTIM.

She said it is up to me how I perceive myself...how I recover from this...how I live my life.

And she was right. It was up to me. And I've seized the days. We all get down from time to time here. WE endured a hardship that I do not wish on my worst enemy...well maybe (b/c it's the other women)...and it is life changing. But our mental status is relevant in our recovery effort. We can't work on healing a marriage and wanting a WS to return to it if the BS IS NOT MENTALLY HEALTHY?

That is why it is so important to have the BS work on themselves. Dobson's book harps on this alot. And I agree. That you use the time apart, during a separation or after a d day to work on YOU. And this is not bout the reconciliation. It is for real improvement and to have life have meanting for the BS...to make the BS as strong as possible for the days ahead. And lets face it...if the WS is to ever come back...they want to return to an ever better than before BS right?

Star, you so eloquently stated:



This describes so well the MB that I grew to kwow so well and to embrace as a theory.

I wonder if the slant here on the forum is changing to be moreso like the OTHER viewpoints.

I could come HERE and feel AT HOME in my VIEWPOINT....

Still thinking on this...

Folks on here gave me HOPE when I felt that my situation was HOPELESS...

Hi Mimi,

I dont post much, but I wanted to thank you for giving me hope on my sitch, appropriately entitles "feeling hopeless". It did seem hopeless to me and most, but things really turned around. My H has ended the A, and is with me, and tonite we just got back from a wonderul dinner. So,...thank you for helping me when I felt so down and hopeless.

stella.

Stella,
I am so happy for you.

I don't want to put a damper, but you are still verifying and not giving blind trust, aren't you?

Trust has to be earned.

I really am happy things are looking up for you.

this post is basically a question about the advice given two posters...eav and slammed.

not about is hope good...

we all agree it is good...

but it is in context to these two instances and about advice given those two posters.

Hope is good.

False hope is wasteful and cruel.

I think you are talking about, "Where is the line between hope and false hope?"
Mulan

Nope, to the contrary Peach. Soory if I gave you this impression.

I was asking about my strong belief in being hopeful and in having FAITH.

Eav and Slammed got me to thinking about the subject.

I don't agree that ALL HERE THINK THAT HOPE IS GOOD...


Stella's response here was a blessing....

Stella, how wonderful for you and your husband....

I was asking MYSELF if my perspective (which is not going to change) is helpful HERE anymore...

In her case, it was and that makes ME experience my place here as being worthwhile....

I'm still thinking on this subject though...

I remember folks in my real life telling me:

"Face it, it's over.

Face it, he's going to divorce you.

Give up on him, etc."

I HATED hearing that stuff. I even continue to have bad feelings about folks that told me that stuff. I knew what I was doing. I HAD A PLAN and I felt comfortable with my game plan and viewpoint.

I don't like reading that stuff being said to posters here.

That's my own personal opinion and experience, though.

You're right, Mulan. The balance between HOPE and FALSE HOPE??

I hated folks LABELING my hopefulness as being false hope.

I think we need to be careful about that...my opinion.

so here's my thoughts about hope

i hope you all feel really good about how you have made me feel

i will not be posting here anymore

i have nothing more to say to any of you people

and peachy, i hope you rot in ******

Post deleted by eav1967

Mimi, like you, I tend to be a very hopeful, optimistic person. I see great hope in so many of the cases that come here. But I believe my hope is based on realistic expectations based on each situation. Some I think are not hopeful because it would be very unrealistic to be hopeful.

In those cases where hope is unrealistic, I think giving false expectations of hope can be harmful because it keeps the person mired in a fantasy.

And Mimi, while you do tend to compare your situation to the most hopeless situations, I NEVER EVER saw your situation as hopeless. I ALWAYS believed it was a realistic expectation to hope for reconciliation in your marriage. Never did I give up hope on you. And not because of my wishful thinking, but because it was a realistic expectation. A strong probability. I have no use for wishful thinking or flights of fancy.

But I need to tell you something important, Mimi. While some have viewed your efforts in some cases as negative, I have not. I believe it is very destructive to give people false hope, but I don't think you have been destructive, Mimi. I think you may have saved a life in what you did because hope may have the only thing that kept that person alive before he/she was ready to accept reality. So, your hope, however unrealistic, gave that person a soft landing into the world of reality.

And I will always love you for that. Because I see what you did. I know what you did, Mimi. You did a great thing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />