First of all I am 29 year old male and have been married for almost 4 years.
I recently (a month and a half ago) found out that my wife has been having an "emotional affair" with a client of hers for about three months now. They talked virtually everyday for hours. She told me this morning that as of today things with him are completely over. I believe her, but she has been really distant from talking about the situation with me since it was discovered. My question is this, how do I ask her if it was more than just an "emotional affair" and how to make it not come accross forceful? I have a natural thought that there was more going on and that she thinks she is protecting me by not revealing the whole truth. All she has admitted to is that they have kissed, but I know she has been to his house alone on at least 3 different occasions. I worry about STD's and linguring emotional distress if the truth doesnt come out. I know this is vague and I would love to respond to any questions regarding more info to help you help me.
Thanks Please help,
JLM

If they have kissed it was an Emotional Affair (EA) and Physical Affair (PA). A PA consists of any inappropriate physical contact between affair partners (including non-sexual contact). So yes, whether your W had sex with the OM or not, she was involved in much more than EA. And I support your feeling that there was probably much more going on than kissing - especially since she has been alone with him in his house 3 times.

Thanks for the heads up Suzet. So what do I do next? I am torn between leaving it alone and confronting it while she is somewhat open to communicate. The variable in all this being she could still be stringing me along to believe that things are over between HER and HIM.

^^^Bump^^^

Experienced BS's and veterans - please advise this new poster on what he should do next regarding his situation.

Jonmc1, I'm not the best poster to advice you on this... I'm a FWW who doesn't have experience and enough knowlege on how to confront a WS who are probably still in an A and not honest with the BS. Therefore I will leave the advice to more experienced posters.

However, what I do think is that you should definately NOT leave this alone and sweep it under the carpet. My first thought was that you must keep silent for now and do some secret snooping and digging to find out what is/was exactly going on and if your W still have contact with the OM she doesn't tell you about e.g. try to find phone accounts; secret e-mails; etc.before you confront her with evidence, but let's first see what the other posters have to say...

I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation. I'm glad you found this website though - it's the right place for help & advice...

Take care,
Suzet

And o yes! I forgot to add:

Find out if the OM is married, engaged or have a girlfriend and then expose to his partner/wife immediately... This should be done whether or not your W is still secretly in contact with OM or not... Exposure is the most effective tool to end an A and/or to prevent an A from getting started again.

Good luck,
Suzet

I am sorry for your pain. I totally agree with Suzet that you should not leave this alone. This has been a big bomb droped on your marriage. She has betrayed you and kissed at the very least another man. If the roles were reversed, do you think your wife would be quiet about this?

You need to sit down and discuss boundaries and honesty and truthfullness. You need to ask her (no guarantee that she will tell you the truth) whether she engaged in sex with him and your need for the both of you to be tested for STD's. You need to reinforce the need for the entire truth because you cannot start the recovery in your marriage without her being 100 percent truthfull. I hate to say this but the fact that she lied to you, crossed the line with at least kissing him and spending time in the evening in his home alone suggest much more physical contact. It is standard behavior for a cheating spouse to minimize the contact they had and later it turns out there was much more.

I would also try to find out about the OM and maybe even get him to confess if you feel your wife is not telling you the truth. Again spending numerous evening at his home alone with the OM and admitting at least kissing suggests that she was willing to cross the line. It is doubtful that once the line was crossed she was willing to just engage in kissing. It is highly doubtful. You need to know the truth and make it clear what the consequences will be if you find out later she has continued to lie to you about this. You need to be proactive. I wish you luck.

In addition, the fact that she has been betraying you with these people for two years is a very long time and shows how strong the addiction is. The bottom line is that you cannot have a marriage if she remains in contact with these people she has been betraying you with for the past two years. This is a no brainer. I suggest marriage counseling of course but if she refuses to cut contact make her realize that you have no intention of staying in a marriage while contact continues in any form with this couple.

Jonmc1,

There is good news and there is bad news.

The good news is someday you will get through this.

The bad news is, well, someday you will get through this.

Hopefully some gray-haired, long-bearded MB experts will come along soon. So let me be their warm-up act in the meantime.

I suggest first of all you confront your worst fears. Get them out right there in front of you.

For example, I doubt very much it was not a PA. I mean, really…

Then start the decision processes as to what you will do. Get your options lined up. For example, you don’t have to stay married to an adulterer. You have a right to end it at any time.

Remember though, couples have recovered from much worse situations than yours. But it takes time and hard work. It means dealing with a lot of pain. It means personal and relationship growth like you have never experienced.


The distance you currently feel may be due to her withdrawal pains. Dr Harley based his initial affair intervention and recovery methods on drug and alcohol intervention and recovery programs. An affair is like a drug addiction in many ways. Thus the relatively good success rate of MB methods.

So have hope and do it by the book if you are going to do it at all.

Or, the distance may be because she is still in contact. Still getting hits off her drug of choice.

Best way to approach this uncertainty is to Plan A and to expose properly.

Your first need is to become an expert on adultery by reading, reading and reading some more. Plan A is explained in excruciating detail on the main site and in SAA. I also recommend His Needs Her Needs by Harley, Private Lies by Pittman, Torn Asunder by Carder, Not Just Friends by Glass, and After the Affair by Spring.

Exposure is wrenching but necessary. Exposure is both effective intervention and an important insurance for eternal No Contact (NC). If you do not know if NC is true (and WS/withdrawing FWS lie like rugs) it’s best to play it safe and expose. Ask questions here about exposure details. You will get a lot of useful input and support. Exposure requires good intel, it can be tricky and messy, and you should expect unpredictable reactions from the principals. But it works.

I am one of those posters often trotted out to demonstrate the benefits of exposure - err, rather, what not to do. So let me trot myself out and explain. My FWW’s affair started five years before I first found out. To make a long story short she sounded exactly like 99.999% of the WS here. She said the affair was over, she minimised it, she said I needed to just get over it or we divorce, she lied like no one has lied since the Big Bang. My fears beat me into submission. I eventually shut up, asked no more questions, let it go and forced myself to trust her again.

But, surprise of surprises, the affair was still going on. Even throughout a year of MC. She just went further underground.

Five years later we had D-Day 2. This time I manned up, used the MB methods and destroyed the affair with Plan A, nuclear exposure and Plan B. It worked.

Don’t be me. Don’t wimp out and discover years later what could have been stopped early is now a very long term affair. VLTAs are bears to deal with. Actually, you will even be doing your wife a favor if you deal with this once and for all, one way or the other, now.

Swallow your fears and act in your best interests. Right now, you are the sane one who cares about her, your family and your marriage. Your best interests are the rational choices for the foreseeable future.

One last tidbit of advice. Recovery after the affair has ended is very hard, even with a remorseful FWW pulling her weight. You should plan on taking it one bite at a time. It’s OK if you only agree to work on recovery for six months at a time. Some of the best advice I received here was to try my best to recover, but I need provide no guarantees. Six months at a time. That’s all you need worry about once the affair is dead.

With prayers,

encore: Important – get the best advice from the pros. Call the MB Counseling Center. The number is on the main site.

Jonmc1, I agree with Aphelion that your W’s distance is because of one of the two things above e.g. 1) withdrawal or 2) because she’s still in contact.

In case your W has really ended contact with OM and in withdrawal from him, you will find the link in my signature line e.g. “Withdrawal guide” helpful. Just click on the link.

In the meantime and until you receive more advice from other posters, you will also find the following threads helpful (just click on the links):

WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses

Bob's Newly Betrayed Spouse MB Toolkit

Pleae keep posting.

jonmc1 wrote:
bryanp replied:
Did I miss something? I see nothing in jonmc1's posts (all two of them) about multiple A partners, nor do I see any length-of-time reference other than three months. How did jonmc1's WW's A go from one client for three months to multiple partners for two years? Did it just get hyperbolized in the heat of the moment or what?

GBH,

I saw that too and was also confused... Then I figured Bryanp had probably send that specific post to the wrong thread.

Good, so I am not the only one that was confused by that - Two year thing. I thought maybe he had Dianne Warwick powers and knew a whole lot more than me.

Thank you everybody for your support, it is a good feeling to know that I am not as alone as I feel. A quick update, I tried to talk to my Wife last night and she completely shut me out. I was loving and asked her to clarify what she ment by "things were over between her and the OM" and she responded by saying that It was a new day and things were over between them. I followed that up by asking her what she would do if he contacted her agian and then boom...no more!...you are wearing me out!...I am not talking about the past anymore...Stop being so needy...I Hate it when you tell me you love me - I hate that word.(All things I heard last night) WHAT in the world? What am I to do. I know this dude is going to contact her agin and I dont believe she is strong enough to tell him not to. What do I do here? I want to trust her but not at the sake of being naive.

Another thought, is there any positive I can hold on to? The more posts i read the bleaker the situation becomes. My beautiful wife and I are Christians and very envolved in church. She has a great Family as I, with healthy relationships all around us. I say that because I know this is will be a great asset in our recovery. I love my wife more now than ever and I have already forgiven her in my heart for anything she has done that I dont even know about yet. However, these wounds are still open because she hasnt expressed the least bit of remorse for her A. Please help.

Something I wish I had done at the beginning but didn't know it would be helpful ..... suspend judgments (including forgiveness) and decisions until you are confident you have all the information you need to make good judgments and decisions. Recovery is a process. I know this is emotional and difficult ... but look at it like a problem or project at work ...... we have to collect ALL relevant information before we can even begin to think of solutions judgments and decisions. You may feel as a Christian you are obligated to give freely your forgiveness. IMHO it is an empty forgiveness if you don't know what you are forgiving. I think it will have more meaning to both of you and your recovery if it is given with full knowledge and disclosure.

Read as much as you can from articles and posts here. Read books that provide helpful information and suggestions. And continue to help your w feel safe in fully disclosing the details.

There are many positives to hold onto. But there is nothing easy in the process. You may want to avoid some threads that pull you down. Identify some threads that pull you up and stick with them for awhile. Keep this thread going.

You and your w are in my prayers.

hns

Hello,

I am sorry. I got this mixed up with another post.

What is a good time frame to not speak of our situation (initiate conversation regarding), unless she brings it up? She has asked that we not talk about it for a while and I am willing to do that for her, but how long is a reasonable timeframe. Just knowing her, she is thinking that if she ignores this it will dissolve on its own.

“…then boom...no more!...you are wearing me out!...I am not talking about the past anymore...Stop being so needy...I Hate it when you tell me you love me - I hate that word.(All things I heard last night) WHAT in the world?”

The affair world, that’s what. This is still inconclusive as to withdrawal or continued affair. I think the latter. Just sounds more like the latter to me.

"I have already forgiven her in my heart for anything she has done that I don’t even know about yet. However, these wounds are still open because she hasn’t expressed the least bit of remorse for her A. Please help."

Help? What do you need help with if you have already completed the forgiveness process?

All done, before even finding out where you need to start. Cool.

The best help I can give you is to recommend you withhold such cheap forgiveness. Read How Can I Forgive You by J A Spring. What you are giving her is Cheap Forgiveness. It leads nowhere but to more heartache.

Did you read my earlier post? Cheap forgiveness is what I gave my FWW after D-Day 1. She valued it exactly as much as it was worth.


“She has asked that we not talk about it for a while and I am willing to do that for her, but how long is a reasonable timeframe.”

Hard to say. Not very long. Week or so at the most. Depends what else is happening in her life. Changing jobs, death in the family – give her some slack. Withdrawal - give her some slack. Continued contact – as soon as you can.

And take a little time to get some intel – have facts at your side first, if you can. Ask on MB about how to do this. Key loggers, recorders. There are many ways to learn the truth.


I saved this for the end:

“What am I to do? I know this dude is going to contact her again and I don’t believe she is strong enough to tell him not to. What do I do here?”

0. Call the MB Counseling Center.
1. Get up to speed with a good Plan A.
2. Find out all you can about OM - and any continued contact.
3. Expose. (Check back here first.)
4. Re-apply as needed.
5. If no improvement after about three months, dark Plan B.

ed: Jonmc1, you are exhibiting signs of what is sometimes called BS fog. The caving in and desire to do anything easy to make this just go away. But it doesn’t just go away. There is nothing easy. You have to man up and fight. I feel for you. I have been in your place twice now. And it gets even worse the second time. So don’t give up. Don’t give in. Fight with every resource you can gather for what you know is right!

Also wanted to add:

6. Turn it over to God. Pray.

jonmc1,

I just noticed a poster I have on ignore is posting on this thread. Since I can't see what she posts I will avoid potential confusion and back away from the thread.

With prayers,

alright i hear a lot of people telling me to find out more info on the OM but all i know so far is a first name and a phone#. is their anyway to find out more info on him that would help? Anyway to get a last name. The # is unlisted / cell

An update:
Tell me all you WS Fog Experts. On Wed. my wife told me convincingly that "as of today day things with her and him were completely over" and that "I could rest on that Fact". Obviously this was good to hear, BUT I am still not completely convinced and feel as though this guy wont just give up. My wife is a lot to be desired. Also she has said a few times previously that things were over but never as convincing as this time and I have facts (that she has admitted to) of him calling her cell from different #'s and talking for 20+ minutes since. So, when I saw her that evening we were in a cordial/surface conversation and when a good opportunity arose I simply asked her, "Hey - about what you told me this morning that things with him were over, could you clarify that for me?" Which she did and just said that Today was a new day and that she was moving on. To which I asked what are you going to do if he tries to contact you? As her normal response as to an earlier post - BOOM - I am not talking about the past, blah blah. However, in the midst of her attempt at making me the villain, she did say that "I told him that I wanted to work on my marriage and told him that we cant talk anymore, and I think he respects that" So, my question to you WS Fog experts is: Does this sound like a logical thought to you or is this just more betraying wife smokescreen? Also, my current strategy is to give her a week where I dont bring the ordeal up and after the week just ask her if she would like to talk, if not keep waiting her out while I work on me. My hope being that if she is truelly remorseful she will want to bring it up to get past it and if she takes the initiative we will get alot farther. I will continue to monitor her "activities" however. Any advice?