Well divorce is not an option. I still love him, I think he still loves me. I love the life we have built arround us. But I do not like the emotional life we have between us. The advicce of cutting my losses does not seem particularily helpful. I said for better or worse. There is that old sayting, If you stand for nothing you fall for anything. I am standing for this marriage and I will not fall for the idea that either of us is some how not worth it. Until I have exhausted every option, until my heart says give I will be here. Thanks though for your input. It certainly rattled larrygeorges chain! Gave me a moment of interesting conversation with him.

DC

U think love is suppose to put up with the stuff you wrote at 5:30pm? If you had a child or relative who had a spouse like that, what would you say to them?

L.

I am wondering if I possibly made things sound worse than they are?
I think he doesnt intentionally plan to make me upset. But I think he honestly doesnt get the point that "If I say x she will feel y. Therefore I wont say x." He thinks "She may feel x, but she cant because I couldnt have hurt her THAT bad, anyway she doesnt look that upset. So I will say x because I feel I need to to make this relationship stronger by making me feel better. So I will say x and hope she feels z instead of y."

But either way, where does this leave me?
What am I subposed to do now?
Where do we go from here?
Today I told him that I think he is trying to fix every aspect of our relationship at once, on his own and at his own schedual, but that schedual isnt working. In fact its killing me so he has to look for signs that we can move onto another stage of healing.

I said we have to decide on a few things (main,big, important) things and we can move on once those are resolved. The first two things i want to do better are my trust level and my ability to do fun things with him. So he needs to pick two he can do better. He was receptive. I am worried that he will back off for a few days and think that in a few days its ok to let everything he doesnt like about me, our relationship and our families hang out.

As well I really want us to celebrate the things we do have going for us. they may seem small right now but at least they are there. I am getting real real real sick of analyzing everything in such a minute detail. Does anyone else on here get sick and tired of trying to figure it all out? I dont want to play mini psychoanalyst for a while. I guess thats not a reasonable request though, we are in the situation we are in and thats that.

But a vacation from it all would be great. I worry though that thats just me wanting to give my self licence to pack it all in and give up Just agree with everything he says, do what ever he wants and forget the concequences to my self identity and self worth and individualism. But i dont think I should or actually want to.

DC

well, hopefully, you don't have any more sisters then because your H is a dirtbag that should not be trusted around any women until he grows up. If he can act this way regarding your family.... imagine how he must be with others.
I stand for something... I stand for not creating a family with someone that you KNOW is an a-hole. Do not have a child with this man whatever you do! You will then have created a situation where getting out is going to be a lot more difficult and painful than it would be now. If you want to hang in there... I give you credit... but do it with your eyes open and with full knowledge of the type of child you are married to.

LarryGeorges chain needs to be rattled... right upside his head.

This is such a strange situation for me. I honest to god did not think that I put anything down on the forum to get so much animosity towards larrygeorge. Its a wierd feeling that I have to defend him. I will assume that this is common. the thing is I know he approaches these conversations that upset me with the idea in his head that he is trying to fix some small part of our relationship and the only way to do that is to raise it with me at that moment. He has no sence of timming. there is still alot wrong with that, but I honestly did not think of this as a deal breaker. I am so curious to see what my therapist will say to this on the 12th. I think i will print all of this off to give to her to reaad. Maybe she can give me some more insight. As well as I am still psychologically lazy I wont have to go through everything all over agian, just giver her the print out and move on. Some how I doubt I will get off that easily.

DC

Oh, wow ... this part really caught my attention. It's the lesson I've been learning recently, too.

Big thing that both of you need to figure out is that you can't MAKE anyone feel anything. You are responsible for your own feelings, and not each other's.

You have your own thoughts and feelings, and they are yours, and you don't have to agree with your H's thoughts and feelings. He can't MAKE you feel X or Y ... he can only share his feelings or thoughts with you. He isn't responsible for your feelings -- and you aren't responsible for his.

Can you take his comments as just his way of communicating his thoughts to you, and not as a way to manipulate a reaction out of you? And can you say things to him without trying to manipulate his reaction?

I don't know if I'm explaining this very well ... I'm still learning this whole concept -- it was a total revolution for me in the way I thought. It shocked me to realize that I'd been dishonest and manipulative by saying what I thought people wanted to hear, or doing or saying things based on the reaction that I wanted to get (approval, make the other person feel good, whatever), instead of sharing my true thoughts and feelings. I thought I was being "nice" and "polite" and "choosing my battles" and "making" other people happy.

Does this make any sense? There are people around here much better than I am at explaining this and helping to break the pattern. LIke I said, I'm still learning this whole concept.

-AmI.

DC,

When you get treated badly (and you were) expect some folks to get mad FOR you. And you're right....it's an odd dynamic because it puts you in the weird spot of defending your H when you know he's acted badly. Sometimes that's not necessarily a bad thing....helps you remember the little that's still good.

Now please.....ask LG a question for me. Ask him why he's trying to sabotage this recovery/marriage. Yep....I said "sabotage". I suspect I know why.....and that you do too....but he's the one that needs to know why. It feels like he's creating strife.....because he IS creating strife....the question you both need answered is "why?".

This could be an old pattern, or a new one LG....one you learned or one you adapted to cope....you'll need to figure out which it is and come up with a better plan. But if you keep it up.....you're going to do so much damage to your life....that you'll succeed in making yourself unhappy, and ensure the the people who love you....don't anymore. You're perched on the brink. You're looking for reasons to blame your wife for how you feel.....and frankly.....she's got enough on her plate already. You have an IC appointment coming up.....please explore this issue there....and for pete's sake....give your wife a chance to catch her breath.

DC....hang in there chere.

The anger issue is a troublesome one....it relates to physical and emotional safety. LG, if you can't start regulating that kind of stuff....we WILL recommend that your wife separate from you until you're safe to be around again (and so will a good therapist...yanno?). Right now....the stuff you're doing is bordering on emotional abuse....harsh word but if you do a little searching, you'll recognize that I'm not exagerating. Please take a good hard look at what is happening to your life.....it's spiralling away from you. You're on a fast track to ruin the best parts of your life....and the best thing that ever happened to you. You've got so VERY much to be thankful for.....and instead....you're bored and self absorbed. Wake up.

I know y'all are both scheduled for some IC.....and it can't happen fast enough!!

Hello everyone

Ami you gave me something to think about thats for sure. I am going to do abit more research. I think thats an idea that is goign to have to stew for me to acutally understand and implement. Star thanks for responding. Its the wierdest thing because when things are good they are really really good, so good I get to thinking that I am making a mountain out of a mole hill. But when things get icky they get real icky and I cant remember if they were ever good. But then they do get good. So strange.

The other thing is I am wondering if he honestly thinks he is doing it for the good of both of us. I keep thinking that MY Lg isnt really a sabatoure and that its all me. that this is only in my head and his reactions are perfectly normal. He is telling me that I am being super sensitive to everything because of all the stuff thats going on, and that when I am less sensitive the situation will heal it self. But then there this voice that says "fight for better." "you both can do and be so much better." "You and he both need better." Its only really that little voice and this forum and my mother that is making me think that there should be so action taken and its not all in my head.

This is such a 'funny' thing because we are dealing with emotions totaly. Nothing physically is going on. he didnt sleep with me sister, he only had feleing s for her. He isnt hurting me physically, but my heart and thoughts are painful and broken. We have food to eat, jobs to do, house to live in everything is the same on the outside but things are so different on the inside.

It makes me think about how he must have been feeling leading upto and including the EA. Everything the same on the outside but oh so different on the inside. So strange. We are living in the world of emotions and man I am not so sure if I like it but at this point dont see another choice. Thanks eveyrone for the support. Even the anger because I am only now learning how to be angery for me and when its right, when I am over reacting and when I am underreacting. My sensors as to whats appropriate when are all out of whack. So thanks for helping me start up my sensors again.

DC

DC:

You stated this:



Then today you say this:



It is definitely NOT NORMAL for you husband to say this to you.

If he truly believes this about your other sister, LG himself has some very serious psychological problems that need to be shared with both of your therapists.


If he does not believe this and is saying this on purpose to bait you, he is being MEAN and EMOTIONALLY ABUSIVE.

Either way, this is a MAJOR PROBLEM of HIS.

You are definitely NOT being too sensitive. DO NOT BUY WHAT HE IS SAYING FOR ONE MINUTE.

If you do not believe us on this, check this out with your therapist.



Feelings are the preliminary step to physical contact. Plus, it is not OK for him to LACK self-control, caring and sensitivity for the BOTH OF YOU to the extent of developing FEELINGS for your SISTER.

All extreamly good points mimi.

Its so odd that I can agree with you on one hand but on the other I am doing mental tricks to come up with ways to not be upset.

Its like I am willing to do almost anything not to be angery at him. Whats up with that hey? I called myself psychologically lazy becasue I think that often times I am not willing to really think about things and contemplate them.

Its like I can only mentally sprint but can't hold onto a thought for long enough for it to come to fruition. But here, in this area I am willing to do mental back flips to fight the idea that there is anything majorly wrong. In that area I can do lots to push that idea back.

Iam really excited to talk about this with my therapist, only 7 days until our first session. Never in my life did I EVER think I would be filled with anticipation for talking with a psychologist. Kinda funny really, in a painfully ironic way.

Thank mimi for pointing out what I probably should be recognizing on my own, but am not for what ever reason.

DC

It's GOOD NEWS that you are coming up with ways to not be upset because your situation could be devastating for you.

However, we're trying to encourage you to NOT USE DENIAL OF REALITY as one of your means of taking care of yourself.

SPEAK THE TRUTH...LIVE IN THE TRUTH...SEEK THE TRUTH...

So do think of ways to take care of yourself..such as...

Continue to share and to seek support from your mother and your friend...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

So basically, it sounds like because I was concerned about my wife's other sister and her behaviour towards me, it makes me either completely delusional or emotionally abusive?

Why is it so strange to think that I might worry that my apparently unhealthy treatment of my wife's sisters may not have only led to my inappropriate feelings, but may have caused problems with her other sister?

Perhaps I am delusional; maybe my lack of inexperience with familial intimacy leads me to think every woman who loves me as family is wanting something more... I don't know, but it's odd that my apparent bad sense of timing can be so quickly declared as "baiting".

Well, almost...

I didn't say COMPLETELY delusional...

I would definitely say that you are likely MISREADING and MISINTERPRETING REALITY.

Why would a LOVING SISTER ALLOW herself to develop a "CRUSH" on her SISTER'S HUSBAND?



As DC stated it, you talked about HER SISTER'S FEELINGS about YOU and not YOUR OWN FEELINGS. Stick with YOUR OWN FEELINGS and do not make ASSUMPTIONS about others.



I don't see what's ODD about my questions.

I do think it's ODD to SEXUALIZE/ROMANTICIZE FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS and then to talk about it as if it is not HURTFUL.

I'm concerned about your BOUNDARY ISSUES, LG.

Like, why are you on DC'S THREAD?

We will be willing to talk with you on your own thread.

In fact, that is where I would choose to speak with you from now on....

I encourage you to open your own thread so that DC can continue to be the focus HERE....

Well now I am super nervous. My husbands main client just told us that they can not pay him for another month. So we have to find a way of making it without a real income for another month and a week. So stress is major major major. Now in all honesty this has NOTHING to do with LGs actions or inaction. It is 100% the fault of a compleat idiot at the other end.(I have met the man and I concure compleatly)So I am super nervous for the next two weeks. Being broke is one thing, but its the rest I worry about. How the h*ll can we afford therapy for the next month. my tuition, mortgage, car payment, insurance. ARGH. I know this has nothing to do with this thread but I needed to vent. Its like every time I think I can breath another wind comes along and sucks it outta me. How unfair is that?? When will life go normal? I miss normal. Was anythign ever normal.....
DC

Well another day without a major outburst. Not bad really. We shall see how tomorrow goes. Last night we had an aweful sleep due to rude neighbours who were loud until 4:30 am this morning. I have a feeling we will have a repeat tonight. I worry when we are both tierd. So I hope that we can both hold on. Only 6 more days until my first therapy session. Keep me in your thoughts please i am so lucky to have found this place.

DC

DC,

I'm looking forward to your session almost as much as you are! You are in my thoughts. I realize that some of the things folks have to say to you are triggering for LG....we can be a tough crowd....but that's because we care and we want the two of you to succeed. Sometimes, that means facing hard truths and exploring difficult feelings.

I may be scarce around here for a while....so I wanted to leave you my email address in case you want to contact me. Having survived both past sexual abuse and infidelity in my marriage....I wanted to leave you with the positive message and hope that both ARE definitely survivable <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

starfish4729@gmail.com

Well, I see red flags all over your situation, DC.

I think that LG, whether he realizes it or not, is well on his way to becoming an abusive husband.

It appears that he has a lot of rage..that he apparently acts out in road rage. How long before this turns to fists when he is not in a car and on the road?

One thing about abusers is that they try to isolate the abused spouse from family and friends. Since you are very close to your family, one possible way to isolate you from them could be by first telling you that he was in love with one sister; then, after that didn't work, tell you that he thinks another sister is in love with HIM! What's gonna be next? Your mom put the make on him? Or your DAD??? :eek

I don't know, DC. I've read your story, and I've read LG's posts, and I think I would want to RUN!

And, oh, BTW, you should tell your main client that you need at least a partial payment. Don't let them get behind too much, or they may be owing you so much that they can't pay you at all. If being late with payment is already a pattern with them, better start looking for more clients. BTDT, got the T-shirt!

Hello Lady C et. al.

Well there are large red flags waving for me as well, not in the way they are raising for you but they are still there none the less. I fear more for my psychological safety/emoional safety. Physical safety has never been a concern of mine. If it ever was I would take my puppies and run, right now. No hesitation.

You may be on to something about the isolation thing being part of the inappropriate stuf with my sister. I dont think he is isolating me though. I think he is trying to isolate himself as a 'bad guy' He has no idea how to relate in many circumstances and relationships.

He feels more comfortable not being liked, therefore he goes out and does things to prove to me that I should not be with him. The rage is something different. thats the 7 year old damaged LG. He has no ability to express feelings, understand subtle social boundaries and has limited ability to use self control. So that is a recipee for disaster.

He uses others as a crutch to help him digest and process emotions and only feels safe is showing me vulnerability and intimacy. Not healthy. But I still think these are things that can actually change. He wants to change, he is, I think, begining to 'get it'.

Anyway I wanted to give another update. So if everything else wasnt enough we have had two other major illnesses attack our family over the past 48 hours.

Yesterday morning my god father was rushed into the hospital and flown to a larger center for testing> Apparently when he was here to visit us this past weekend and he got the flu, it wasnt the flu. He was having a heart attack. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> So now he is in the hospital over 1000 miles away and we are all worried for him. He has other health problems and it is complicating things.

Then tonight after an aweful day at school (I dont want to get into it specifically but suffice to say it was h*ll.) I come home and find out my aunt has now been taken in the cardiac unit. Now this isnt just any Aunt. I call my moms sisters my surrogate moms. She helpt raise me from the age of three. She introduced me to horses, she has been a role model and sounding board for many dreams and ideas.

Now the doctors dont know why her heart is in AFib and why she keeps passing out. She knocked herself unconcious this morning and laid in a pool of her own blood (she knocked her head) for a half hour before regaining consiousness and getting help. She is only 49. She has three kids. My God father (who is aso my uncle) is 47. He has four kids. This really sucks.

I keep reminding myself of the Footsteps poem. I am being carried...I am being carried... I am being carried.....I am being carried... You only are given what you can take... God doesnt test us he walks with us...I gotta know who the pilot is....

Thinking strong thoughts and taking deap breaths
DC

So my aunt is out of immediate danger. Thank god. But now I am delaing with intense feleings of jelousy towards my husband. He has been involved deaply with a community group working on social services ect. Anyway it has become a 24 hour a day job and I am JELOUS! Is this normal? There isnt any one person he is working with, but every time we talk about it, and this is something i would also normally be interested in, I just think, "Here we go again". Has anyone else who's spouse was involved ina n EA feel more jelous afterward?

DC