Post deleted by Cherished

detached care...

How could you have answered that differently...

in a way that is both supportive and offers some wiggle room...

do you want a spouse that never ever watches football?

why can't he watch football..
what's your goal...

that you live with someone who never watches football...
what's the real issue....

ARK

I agree with Ark - I'm not sure exactly what you are asking about here.

In my case, it was dealing with passive/aggressive behavior that really turned the tide. You might want to look at the links in my sig and see if they sound like what you're dealing with.

And if not - well, just come back and give us a little more info!
Mulan

DC,

There is one poster on this board that I honestly believe has a better grasp of the POJA than anyone I've ever seen. Please leave a post and link for her on the EN board....she's sometimes here on GQ...but more often there. Her name is "Myschae". I'm going to take a stab at this....but I hope she chimes in.

The POJA denies individuality. I am an adult. I can make my own decisions....

The POJA is the only way to protect the MUTUAL individuality. Without it....someone is being disrespected and their needs dismissed. Without the POJA....one partner sacrifices happiness to please the other. That "sacrifice" creates martyrs and huge resentment. The POJA is an effort to get a good deal and win/win for both partners.

What I have tried is to not give my opinion or state my feelings unless he asks.

This is silly, dishonest, and slightly passive aggressive since you'd probably prefer if he just read your mind.

On Sunday, he asked if it bothered me if he watched football. I said it did, and he got upset.

Okay....here's where stuff immediately went off track. He asked if it "bothered" you. Why be "bothered"? Why not negotiate? Your answer could easily and honestly be: "Well, it won't bother me if we can negotiate for something I'd like to do too. I can be enthusiastic about you watching football, if......" Your response is only honest....it's not solution oriented. It only makes him feel guilty for watching football. And football (as ark suggests) is probably NOT the problem anyway....it's what he "neglects" to watch football. What if he showed his love for you, or did the things you wanted also....then...would you be "bothered"?

I told him I was telling him what I was feeling and only because he asked.

Sorry chere....passive aggressive again. My H used to do this to me.....say something critical in the name of "honesty" and then tell me "I asked for it". Show him a way to turn this negative (you being bothered) into a positive (you being enthusiastic). Because football on TV is not the problem....neglecting you...or the things you like to do is the real problem. Give him the option of having a wife who can enthusiastically ask him

Just wondering if anyone has ideas on how to deal with a spouse with the attitude that I should do what I please and you are controlling or unloving or unsupportive if you think what I want is negative for you.

I'm not sure this is really what he thinks...and this is probably a dj. My guess is that he really thinks he "just can't win". Even if he asks how you feel before he does something....you give him no options and use honesty to simply limit his choices. That doesn't feel good to him....and he's going to resist it.

"What I have tried is to not give my opinion or state my feelings unless he asks. On Sunday, he asked if it bothered me if he watched football. I said it did, and he got upset."

Why withhold who you are to avoid conflict? What if using "I" statements is about being truthful and telling it?

Why did it bother you that he watched football last Sunday? What does "bother" feel like to you?

Your feelings are yours..."I feel ignored when you watch football for six hours. I fear because I don't know how long you will do this...one hour, two or twelve. I wouldn't be bothered, feel that fear, if I knew for how long."

Is that what bothered you? What was the real feeling...bothered isn't one of it...just means your emotions are disturbed...like upset isn't a feeling, either...just that balance is being upset in your emotions.

"I told him I was telling him what I was feeling and only because he asked."

So when he became upset because you were bothered...you then told him he shouldn't be because you were only telling him your feelings because he asked, he made you tell him?

Huh?

Wha?

Where do you end and where does he begin? Where does his stuff end and yours begin?

That WOULD be controlling...both ways...you made me, so I made you...no, you made me (because you looked bothered first) so I asked you, which made you, and then made me.

Ack. What a cycle. Icky. I lived it for 15 years. Whew.

Break the cycle, not each other.

"Just wondering if anyone has ideas on how to deal with a spouse with the attitude that I should do what I please and you are controlling or unloving or unsupportive if you think what I want is negative for you."

First, I dealt with myself by deciding how I wanted to live life...picked a premise...

And I did that by realizing we all do what we please, all the time...we have inherent choice...including, choosing our attitude, how we perceive, our perspective, our beliefs and thoughts. We choose...all humans do. His perception may be that you're controlling or unsupportive...doesn't make it The Truth...just his truth. Valid. It's his.

My DH didn't know this...I didn't...until we did, we feared each other...and DH feared being controlled GREATLY...could see it whether or not it was there...because it was REAL to him. I learned to respect it...and realized I was not the cause, control or cure for what is his...not in God's design...nor he for me.

Second, I increased my awareness to see my DH's choices...when he chose to NOT to act on his fear...so I could see clearly the dynamic, the cycle, we'd been stuck in and to break my part...which broke the cycle.

Communication exercises and compromises...POJA...this past Sunday, I watched football for three hours with my DH. I don't like football, believe I share inane comments, and fear my DH being angry when they lose (our team loses a lot)...during the game, he said, "I liked it when you used to curl up on my lap during a game." Ahhh...love deposit. "I enjoyed that, too...maybe I will later." I used to read, too, during a game...shared our presence, not our focus...I shared that my contribution, my comments seemed inane...not something football guys would say, he answered, "I love watching the game with you and hearing your thoughts. They are totally different than mine. I like that."

More love deposits...and we didn't get here over night...from slashing each other for years...it's been nearly two years...just passed the 9/18 DDay...how 'bout that...didn't think of it that way at all...no trigger.. YAY!!

And about us sharing...these are AUTHENTIC statements...not said to get ENs met or make love bank deposits...I believe his truth...my part is choosing when to believe it and when not to...still his truth...just don't take it inside of me unless I determine it to already be my truth or not.

What books have you read? My trail included "Facing Love Addiction" which was really helpful...and "Boundaries in Marriage" by Cloud and Townsend. Also, a few John Bradshaw books "Healing the Shame that Binds You" and "Homecoming".

Also, "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans helped me a lot to identify my behaviors and share what I learned with my DH.

And a whole lot of reading on MB...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Key was knowing what I believed and finding the false ones...including that because someone felt I wasn't something, didn't mean I was...I knew my intent, have kept a keen on making it pure, aligning it with my premise...which was to live respectfully.

I was riddled with DJs in my thoughts, words and actions. Ferreting those out and eliminating went a long way to helping me stop AO's and SDs, too. And IBs...I found that LB (DJs) was pervasive in my life.

LA

Sorry, DC...I will remove my post if you desire me to. I realize now I posted to you before...didn't understand the new name...and if you'd like others' opinions and advice, I will respect your desire.

LA

Eh??

I dont think this is passive-agressive, unless you mean that DC's spouse was exhibiting PA behaviour. Her husband should not have asked the question, unless he was prepared to DO something about it if she responded that yes she was bothered by it.

whether or not it is worth DC's time to be "bothered" by the behaviour is a different issue.


err.. for some people it is. some people really hate it that much. you shouldnt presume, methinks.

DC - ? What's really going on here? Why does his watching football bother you? We need more info to get a dialogue going.
Mulan

Post deleted by Detached_Care

When I first read that, I thought, "DC, you can't be serious . . . I've never heard of anything so ridiculous."

It looks to me like you have both taken your power struggle to such extreme lengths that you are actually having discussions over stuff like this. If you want anything that even resembles a healthy marriage, that stuff has got to stop now.

Please take the time to read both links in my sig line and see if they sound like what you are dealing with. It's possible that both of you are using P/A behaviours and therefore driving each other absolutely insane.

Let me know what you think about those links.
Mulan

So what keeps you from sitting there beside him, reading a book, while he watches football? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Post deleted by Cherished

Hello DC,

I think Star*Fish answered your question already about what you could do otherwise.

It seems to me the two of you are engaged in some sort of game for a long time.
Up to a point where you will see no alternatives.

"The fighting has stopped. I don't fight. If he does something that I view as negative, I say nothing. If he asks me my opinion or how I feel, I tell him how I feel or my opinion. I do not tell him what to do."
Is this a plan?
Is this something that was suggested to do to stop the fighting?

If it's part of a plan, I hope that there is a next stage in this plan.

Saying "Yes, it bothers me" is excellent if your partner is completely receptive to your needs and knows you inside out and will not take your answer personally.
Otherwise.. how can he take it any other way than negativily?

I don't know your whole story, so forgive for asking (again): are you working with the EN's ?
If your H attended the MBW with you, then how does HE feel about MB principles?

My question right now is: Why does his watching football bother you?

If your husband does not know *why* this bothers you, and you don't give him some logical reason as to why it does, then he may well think you are just trying to control or punish him by making him feel guilty for doing something he wants to do.

I'm not saying that's necessarily what you're doing; I'm saying that he may very well be taking it that way.

And Mimi has a good question: Why not sit beside him and read a book or do some needlework or something while the game is on?

If you could answer mine and Mimi's questions, we could help you better.
Mulan

Post deleted by Cherished

DC - thanks for responding.

Okay, here's my theory, and I think you will understand it better once you understand Passive/Aggressive (P/A) behaviour.

I think you yourself are employing heavy-duty P/A tactics against your husband.

I think you are very, very angry at him both for having an affair and for physically harming you - and who wouldn't be angry?

But you cannot and will not express this anger directly, so you use PASSIVE/aggressive (not overtly aggressive) ways to express it. You defeat and sabotage anything he might offer (like watching football together) and then insist when that doesn't work that it's all his fault.

And it's working. You are getting your revenge and making his life miserable. And he's doing the same to you. Round and round you go. Have a nice day.

Now, nobody is telling you to stay with a man who had an affair and broke your arm. You are the one who says you want to do that. Okay. But what you are doing now is not working, except to let you get some revenge on him while insisting you are doing no such thing.

If you actually want a marriage with this man, as YOU say you do, you have got to change your tactics. Stop worrying about what he is or is not doing. The only one you can control is yourself.

Please read the first link in my sig line, "The Boomerang Relationship", as soon as you can. It's not very long. I think it will sound familiar to you, only in your case you will have to reverse the genders as written in the article. IMO, *YOU* are the P/A and your husband is the target.

Please let us know what you think.
Mulan

Post deleted by Cherished

DC, I'm writing to you at the end of a sleepless night that will go into a spacy day. I've read your posts before. I didn't realize you'd changed names. My perspective at this point is of someone who has tried hard to save her marriage and failed.

Forgive me but I see in your posts so much absoluteness and rigidity. You've issued ultimatiums that it's 15 hours together or else. You've put your foot down against watching football. You feel your marriage is f-o-r-e-v-e-r and there can not be anyone or anything else. It all feels a bit "my way or the highway". That could stem from years of frustration but I see it as a wall to climb.

I suggest you stretch your mind and think outside the box. Think about the tough decisions.

Is not arguing treating the problem or treating the symptom? If you can't POJA, if you can't make your opinion heard, if you keep your mouth shut, does that really solve anything? Doesn't it just make you more frustrated? Everyone deserves a voice. How can you constructively make yours heard? If you can't, what are you going to do about it?

I can't tell you how many hours I've spent sitting next to my STBXH reading a book while he watched sports on TV. I remember reading Lonesome Dove during a Super Bowl party one year. It felt like time together and we were both doing something we liked.

Now that he's gone, I don't have to watch any football at all. Occasionally, I choose to sneak a peak but rarely. It's blissful not being tied into a televised sports routine. No more large blocks of time that are sacredly devoted to the Tube. No more agony of defeat that rippled down into our family life.

I loved my husband and worked hard at my marriage. Well, at least from my perspective. Now that it's winding down, I feel a lot of resignation and tiredness. I don't believe God wants people to be miserable in marriage. I've been married for a long, long time. Somewhere something or someone changed. It's just not working for either of us now. With an honest heart and clear mind, I can go on to lead a clean life.

I believe I deserve someone who will cherish me and value me for who I am. So do you. I don't want to sit alone at DD's games anymore. I want to be one of the people who sits with their mate. I want someone who is proud of me for reading a lot of books. I want someone who cleans up after I cook or will do it all together. I want someone who can say "Let's take a hike in the morning and then watch the game." I want someone who will dance with me. A partner, a friend.

About 3 months after D-day, I prayed that God do with my marriage what God would but give me the strength to deal with it. To my great surprise, I was given an immediate answer. Since then, I've never prayed to God to save my marriage. I only ask for God to take me down the path that suits God's purposes best. Ahead, I see sad times, times of change and then a new life with new purpose.

DC, do you have what you want? Can you H give you what you want and can you reciprocate? Listen to your daughter but don't let her run the show. My DD would love her father to come home and for everything to be hunky dory. She can see it isn't happening. Like Dr. Phil says, "If momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy."

What will make you happy?

Post deleted by Cherished

Post deleted by Cherished