Can someone recommend some strategies on dealing with a fogged spouse (or point me at some archived ones)?

My story is posted in another thread, but the short version is that my wife had an affair that ended almost a year ago. MC was ineffective. The affair stopped, but my wife continued at the job with the OM. She lost the job about three weeks ago and is now depressed and angry at everything. She officially gave up hope for our marriage a couple of months ago but is still in the house.

I'm working with Jennifer C, who has me on a Plan A. I think I am doing well--meeting the needs my wife makes available, eliminating LBs and squashing the ABs as I figure out what the are. Most of the time, though, it feels like I might as well take my love and flush it down the garbage disposal.

Thick skin. Be compassionate. Remember why I'm doing it. Recognize that she's confused and hurting. Patience.

Other suggestions?

See this is the thing my friend. The affair DIDN'T end a year ago and this is WHY MC was ineffective. Why do you for a second think the affair ended? There was ongoing DAILY contact up until 3 weeks ago. This is why your wife is NOW depressed and angry because the affair ended when NC WAS established - see the link?

Let her get through withdrawal and Plan A her for now. Hopefully she will pull her head out and the fog will thin a little over the next 8 weeks or so.

saying a prayer for you.

So hard to keep going. Nothing but hostility from her--she's angry that I won't give up. She says she trusts her feelings, that she has no hope for us, that she doesn't want to try, that she's finished, that she doesn't trust me. She talks about how unhappy she is in the house, so I told her that I believe things can be better--that I am absolutely confident even though she has no hope. That Marriagebuilders can help give us the tools, and she could attend a counseling session with Jennifer. A bit later, I got this text message: "I'm done. Lawyer is next, mediation or litigation. marriagebuilders can help you prepare for your next life." The only way I can keep going is to know that it's fog talking, but, man, it's so hard.

Help?

Well my husband, who was embroiled with the OW for 14 years now says that 3 months after exposure and Plan A he can't even think of why he ever was involved with this OW (except that he wanted someone to be nice to him). He has taken the chance for redemption and for a real marriage and family life with both hands and has followed the MB's concepts to the letter.

People can change in what they want so don't give up hope. We had the crappest marriage for almost 20 years but it is amazing how good the prospects look now.

1st of all is she planning for you to die? What's this next life babble?!??!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer is getting you through plan A. Stick with it and view it NOT to help the WS but to help you and your family. You've got 2 little ones whose lives are hanging in the balance since they now have a WS for a mother. That's bad.

You'd best finish your self-improvements ASAP so you can get the strength you need to boot that weird and cruel WS OUT of your family's life.

She wants YOU to get another life? Tell her your family IS your life and moving on will be a necessity when your WIFE decides NOT to come back. Then let her know that you do NOT appreciate her WS attitude. No apologies, ok?

Work with Jennifer.

L.

It feels like she wants me to be convinced there isn't any hope, and she's angry that I won't give up. FinallyLearning talked about this. Kind of asking for permission to leave and getting frustrated when I won't give it to her.

Is this typical?

sdguy,

My Wh is saying the exact same things. I am holding on to hope only because of stories I see here. I hope others who have made it through to recovery come alongside and help you. From what I have read and am experiencing, this is VERY NORMAL WS speak!

Good luck and God Bless

If you want to read some of my posts, it might help you understand things from a WW perspective. My "A" also ended over a year ago, however I took continued to work with OM and eventually the A started again, I became PG, had OC (she is almost 5 months now) and the rest of the story is here on these boards....

During that entire year BH tried his best and what turns out to be "Plan A".... however, I was SO convinced I Was "in love" with OM I couldn't imagine my M was every going to work out or survive, add OC to the mix and I too tried to convince BH to give up and just let me move on with my life..... Thank God he didn't give up!!!

What you need to do is to replace OM in your WW's eyes. You need to fill all her needs, and although it won't be easy.... as time goes on and NC is achieved, she will begin to come out of her fog. Also, in my case finding out who OM really is and seeing his TRUE colors, helped me come out of this horrible fog. But it doesn't happen without pain... it doesn't happen without turmoil.

Please get your WW to read some of the books mentioned on this websiste. One book I read "Not Just Friends" was VERY helpful as I was able to understand my own feelings/emotions towards OM and how naive I was to think anything could come out of this A. She is living with the fantasy in her mind of what could have been.... until she sees that as a FANTASY and until she can realize that she is NOT "in love" with OM but with the fantasy he provided.... she can't move forward.

Not sure if this helps....

Becca

That helps me a lot. Thank you so much. I welcome other opinions or referrals to relevant posts--sometimes it just hurts too much for me to try to read everything on here.

SD (go Chargers!!)

BigKahuna hit that nail on the head. MAYBE the A was over..the PA anyway, but when they are still working together, and can see each other, talk to and smile at each other, then at least the EA is still going on.

So if she got fired 3 weeks ago, she is in deep withdrawal!! Plus the "stigma" of getting fired, losing her job, missing the office world, etc. must be devastating. She must be as blue as blue can get.

Has she been looking for another job? You must support her and validate her worth at this time. If she is sitting around the house stewing in her angry at the world juices, do all you can to aleviate her depression.

Not too much relationship speak or recovery/counseling talk. Plan A your A$$ off and be her supporting companion and friend. Lift her out of her pit of dispair. Keep that thick skin, turn the other cheek, and hold on to your goal of weathering through her withdrawal.

Let a smile be your umbrella, keep a stiff upper lip, a stitch in time save nine, and a penny saved is a penny earned. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Sorry, got carried away.

But do be her rock and her safe haven in this stormy sea she finds herself in. This will pass. Give it a couple months.

If things are still the same after that. Maybe it is time to re-think.

krk

My wayward husband went through the same stuff. This is so normal....like the wayward poster said. All she wants is to have you let her go...and go on with her life. She loves you, but is not in love with you. All that we heard over and over. In my case....my wayward spouse and I divorced. Which we were counseling with the Harleys. My wayward spouse lied to the Harleys as well as many others. He is an intelligent man...and fell into an affair with a woman that was not emotionally balanced. This was her 2nd official sexual affair....the first was with a minister of a church and who knows who else. This woman lied....called me and coerced me with suicide if I were to tell her husband. I gave her time and then wrote him a letter.

Anyways....you need to work on yourself...for this plan A is what is going to keep you sane. I felt at times that I was going insane...and my wayward spouse was telling lies here on the MB boards...and not being truthful. I saw what the posters were posting....and couldn't believe that my husband could do things they said would happen. Yep....it happened...and if I could do it over....I would of listened...and done things differently. I became a doormat...and that was exactly what the wayward spouse didn't want. Your wife wants to see you moving on with your life. You having cheerful times...and times out with your buddies. You have 2 children....take them out for dinner and a movie...or to a museum or whatever. Show her that you are a wonderful father, committed to their growing up...and plan a time when all 4 of you could go to dinner and out to the park, zoo, or whatever. You have to show her that you can go on with your life. That you will move forward from this affair. The book that the wayward spouse mentioned above sounds great. I never read that book....but will get it out of the library just for information to read.

Read the books the Harleys recommend. No Lovebusting is crititcal...and you need to fill her lovebank. There will be deposits....and withdrawal. We all are human....and we learn from being humans.

You are experiencing what all of us betrayed spouses had to deal with. I would not wish this pain even on my worst enemy. I would not wish this pain...for it is worse than death of your spouse.

Keep your chin up....smile in the morning when you see her and I would give her a morning wish....like I wish this most beautiful day to have the most beautiful blue sky for you my dear. I wish for this day, Wednesday, that you have 3 wonderful laughs. Just simple things....that she can take with her through the day. Nothing complicated....and you know what makes her laugh, feel good, and to feel good about herself. If you know she is having her hair done today....you could wish....I wish today, for you to look as beautiful as you do now all day and have God in your thoughts. Say something about the kids in a wish....that will be wonderful.

Anyways....you get the picture. She can realize that you know her quite well. She sees that you are intuned to her feelings and emotions. She sees that you are a caring and nurturing man. This will make changes for her...little by little, baby step by baby step.

Yes....all the drama of the aftermath of an affair is evil, cruel....and painful. Her affair has not ended until the no contact. So it has only been 3 weeks. You will see it get worse before it starts getting better. My ex went into a ballistic emotional inbalance. He cussed, swore, kicked things, called his mother names, called her an old crazy woman, he threw things at me, threw my one son into the cupboard, he kicked the one dog....and threw a cup which hit the floor near the dog. I had to have the dog go outside...to get the pieces of cup out of her fur.

Anyways....Keep going...we are here to hellp you. Blessings.

sdguy038,

Everything you're experiencing is normal WS behavior. I was a WW myself. I thought I didn't love my BH anymore too. But guess what? I was wrong. I couldn't feel the love for him b/c I was all fogged up in my head. I was a total head case. Everyone who knew me kept asking me WTF was going on w/ me.

Once NC was established and I started reading and posting here, I began to recover my mind and my old feelings for my DH, family and friends.

Listen to what Orchid tells you about babble....try not to take what your WW says to you to heart. The A has made her numb to her feelings for you. They're still there.

Hang in there.


~ Marsh

Here's a post by another poster..I'm sorry, I forgot whose it is. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

DOs

1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP

Wow. Thanks so much for the posts. Every time I read someone telling me that this is typical gives me that much more strength.

It's more like 5 weeks now since she lost the job, but she's still in a lousy place. The job was a huge part of her identity. She can't see that the misery isn't my fault, and she doesn't really have anyone to talk to (an IC, but I'm skeptical that it's helping) about it. So frustrating.

I helped her with her resume while letting her know that I didn't think she *needed* my help. Told her it looks good--that whatever employer gets here will be getting a star employee. Found out that she has applied for something and congratulated her for it, said that the job offers will be beating down our door.

I think I'm doing a good job with the Plan A. I stopped the LBs I was doing in the early aftermath and have squished the ABs I can find. What I need to do is stop getting dragged into 'there is no hope--we're done' conversations, because they're like getting hit in the stomach with a shovel and trigger depression for me. And some better hobbies.

Thanks again for the advice. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

as I look back upon the previous losses in my life
I can see in hindsight
opportunities and lessons that were invisable to me at the time
every loss hurt
every loss was also an opportunity to re-think what was and what was not important in my life


if a person has a thin veneer of self identity
having that veneer stripped away exposes a need for a deeper more meaningful identity

it has long been my opinion that most non-pathological adultery is done by folks seeking an identity

the OP is usually a mirror that says
[color:"blue"]this is who you are
you are a person who is desiarable[/color] ... enter "THE FOG" .... which clouds the vison and the affair-fogged cannot appreciate that the OP-mirror is a false reflection

because outside things or persons which we use to identify ourselves are a veneer

when the veneer is taken away we feel we have disappeared

unless

we go to a deeper more soulful journey of self-discovery

so, the loss of a career identity while painful and sad ... this too can be grieved as a loss and then be put into proper perspective

in a spiritual sense
we are humanly more important than what we produce financially

and sometimes
we need to have the veneer stripped in order to be forced into taking a deeper look at ourselves

Fantastic post, Pep!

Great insight!

~ Marsh

Okay, so despite my best intentions I found myself in another relationship discussion. I got out quickly, but while in asked the question "Do you believe I can ever love you again?" to which she responded, "No, not truly." I asked "Why not?" and then she changed the subject with "It's a two-way street."

She's told me before that she doesn't trust my feelings--that I would do anything to keep the marriage together. I wonder--is this also common? Feelings of "How could they possibly love me again?"

I think that I should not explore this or try to convince her otherwise. I think that I should be cool and avoid the relationship talk. She was nicer last night.

My wife has an appointment with a lawyer. How worried should I be? Is this also typical?

Orchid: You were asking those questions to a WS. Ws' only babble. Don't let yourself get hurt like this again.


Orchid: Of course 'the WS' does not trust you. Then again you don't trust a WS, do you? Very common from the babbling mouth of a WS. They learn it in the WS-U school of babble.


Orchid: Don't waste time trying to have an R talk with a WS. It is very stressful and highly unproductive.


Orchid: Since it's the WS seeing the lawyer, go protect your finances. Secure your support group and batten down for a lot of hot air to blow your way. In many cases the WS tries to get the BS t/d the D dirty work. So when she goes to the lawyer you go to your lawyer and your MC. Better yet, go to your lawyer and call Jennifer C @ MB. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.