Just rec'd an email from my WH. He finally apologized for all the hurt he is causing us. He also says he forgives me for any unintentional hurt I had caused him....finally!

But....
He states that OW will be soon moving in w/ him (prolly by end of month). He now comes to our home on the weekends I am working my night shifts & stays over w/ our girls. He has brought up once again that by the next weekend I am working (which is in 2 weeks) he wants our DDs (ages 3 & 5) to stay at his place w/ him & OW.

He wants to hear how I feel about this. I need some really good advice as I am afraid to blow an opportunity I may have to sway him back to his senses.

I know it is not a good idea for our young DDs to meet OW or even go stay at another home. I'd rather quit my job than allow that upheaval in their lives. They are already dealing w/ so much hurt. But could someone please give me some good advice as to exactly why this should not be allowed....the negative effects it will have on them....so that I can share this w/ my WH in a way he will actually listen? I need help on how to approach him w/out setting him off.

He really believes it will help them understand where Daddy is when he is away if they can see him happy w/ OW. Please help me change this insane thinking w/ any experience or advice you may have.

Thank you SO much!
Sammi

Does anyone know how to change my subject title that people see on the main index to the most recent/relevant one of "WH pushing for DDs to spend time w/ OW"?

I sometimes get no answers to my questions & wonder if it is becuz of my subject title.

With the urgency of this situation, I'm just afraid I will get looked over again. I really need some advice here.

And just a side note, we are going to MC this evening, where my WH states in his email that he wants to bring this up.

Hope to hear from someone soon <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Have you read SAA? Have you done a background check on the OW? Where are you at with the exposure?

He is forgiving YOU???? You don't buy that do you?

I hope the OW falls down and smacks her nose. She is stinky.

L.

He asked "How do you feel about this...(i.e. - DD's meeting OW)

Answer:

WH, I don't see how our DD's meeting the OW is either good for our M or for their mental and emotinal health. They are already confused as is and introducing them to OW will only serve to further confuse them. In addition I will not be party to legimizing the illicit and immoral R with OW by having our children be party to it. It is simply not in their best interest and unacceptable.

Leave this to him at this point and see what his reaction is....If he acts angre or mean that's fine as long as he respects your boundary for your children. don't try and explain anything to him.. You may as well be beating your head against a brick wall while he's on the high of an A with this homewrecking OW. Have your boundaries and enforce them. If he vilotates them, don't warn him simply go and get a temp hearing, LSA, for custody and support stating that girls can't be near anyone of woman or man not related by M or blood.

In response to Orchid:
I am in the slow process of reading SAA. Must make it more of a priority I know.
As for exposure, everyone knows about her. Nobody is happy w/ my WH. My MIL & FIL refuse to meet OW. They say until me & the girls are okay. Which will be never!

My question is about a background check. How do I do a background check on OW?

Thank you hopeandpray <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
At our MC I pretty much stated what you said word for word. My WH disagreed & the MC himself had nothing to say! He told us to go to the library to see what the research shows we should do about our girls spending time w/ WH & OW! Unbelievable! As we left MC, my WH stated that that was his last MC session & I completely agreed. Obviously for different reasons, but nonetheless my reaction to his comment suprised him. I'm sure he thought I'd fight him to go back to this guy. Instead I'm gonna save up some $ & make an app't w/ SH.

Since I stated my boundaries that he is not to allow our DDs anywhere near the OW, my WH has said nothing more of it. We have actually been getting along very well.

Hopefully this has caused him to maybe respect me more or something. Not quite sure. He has stated he will never do anything behind my back, such as have DDs in contact w/ OW or file for D. I'm not sure if since our last MC this has changed.

Do I bring it up w/ him? I don't want to be taken off guard at him doing something legally behind my back. But I am in Plan A & am not supposed to bring up any relationship stuff, I know. Not to mention that things are going so well w/ us right now (as well as can be expected, that is) that I don't want to do anything that will cause "waves". I really feel as tho I am depositing some love units/meeting his needs & I don't want to do anything to ruin that progress, but again want to be prepared for any legal action he may be mustering up behind my back.

Any thoughts?

i just recently went thru this and trust me you want your kids to stay right where they are at in your home.my daughter is 16 and is having a very hard time dealing with this with her father and the OW. we are not divorced or have not even discussed it. just tell him that you have to think about their feelings. i know you dont want to hear this but if he gives you any problems just tell him that he can take them out to eat or something like that with the OW but no over nights till they are married!(sorry)
it is hard being the person to stand up for the kids. trust me i know and i feel that i am always the bad person but in the end they will understand right now the guilty always wants to give in to everything so they are lovable and they are liked which leaves you hanging. i hope everything works out with you!!!! and not as stressful
bsj220

high school sweethearts
married 9 years
1 daughter(16 years old)
dday july 9th 2006
husband moved our august 18th
moved out of our home nove 17th
husband and OW moved in same day.
now just taking one day at a time

HI, Sammi. I am in Canada as well. Did you get the recommended books? THey are critical.

How old is your DD? You must see a lawyer. And it is a LONG battle, normaly to get things straightened out. BUT you must protect yourself and DD.

I had my DD see an IC so she could speak to someone impartial. ANd so he could assess her state of mind. THe IC clearly stated that DD will not see WH in the presence of OW now or any time in the future. He wrote a report that is part of my legal filings.

Under no circumstances will OW be allowed to have contact with DD. It is NOT negotiable. My DD is almost 15 and her values and her principles will not change to enable his A.

But, it is far more important that you take care of the finances. As the A continues, you will likely find htat the WH will resent having to pay CS and SS more and more. ANd you will find yourself finacnially struggling.

I would strongly urge you to get that done ASAP. You don't have to file for a D. I did not. I filed ONLY for financial stuff.

WH filed for D. I refuse to help him with that. I am only protecting DD and myself.

I can give you more details if you like to how and what to put in an agreement to make sure you have covered most of the critical things.

Thank you all for your replies. I do much reading here, but don't post as often as I'd like. I am finally getting thru the books & also rec'd "Love Must Be Tough" by Dobson from a friend.

I am still in Plan A. I have been doing very well w/ it since Jan.23rd. I am finding it more difficult tho. He is living w/ OW. But he is "waiting patiently" (his words) for me to allow our DDs to stay at "their" place on some weekends. He was told Jan.22nd that this will not happen, but I guess he thinks I'll change my mind. He told me just this past week that he got a bed for them & that their room is all ready for them to come & stay over. Ouch <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

NEhow, I know that I should have already filed for a legal seperation agreement (?LSA), but have not yet. Because it is an "agreement", does this mean my WH will be notified or even involved about it? I know it is important, so I want to have it there just in case he never comes back & does end up filing for D behind my back (tho he said he never would), but I would rather him not know about it at all unless that day happens. Otherwise, he may see it as me giving in/up (tho I know it is not) & therefore be encouraged to file. And I still only want reconciliation for our M. Can I just have one made up behind his back? Sounds silly I know, but I really don't want to be the one to initiate anything legal.

I also have a question about Plan B. I am not ready for this step yet, but becuz I have seen no movement on my WH part for reconciliation (tho we have been getting along really well), I can see that I may need to do a Plan B at some point. My question is: what about our DDs? How do you Plan B when you have little ones & you don't want to take them away from their Daddy & you don't want them anywhere around his girlfriend?

Any advice would be appreciated...as always.
Thanx.

Sammi, are you listening AND following any advice? SAA and the other books give you very good steps to take.

BUT, you must see a lawyer. Whether you like it or not, you must take care of your kids. And that means seeking legal advice. It sucks, but ignoring this can cost you and your children even more pain.

Are you a stay at home Mom? BEcasue if you are this is even more critical to get your financials straightened out. THere is new legislation regarding spousal support that will help. ANd he MUST pay child support. This has NOTHING to do with saving your marriage. But do you think the OW will ENJOY have your WH spend money on support? I doubt it.

AND have you considered that if your WH AND the OW have set up a ROOM for them that MAYBE you WH and her are PLANNING to get the girls to LIVE with them?

You NEED to see a lawyer and make sure that doesn't happen. Plus the added bonus is that once the financials are court ordered, the money that otherwise he would send on their adultery is going to where it should and that is to you and your DDs. THat will put strain on their adultery.

This is not a time to confuse saving your marriage with taking care of your girls and yourself. And yes, your WH will be served papers. You don't have to file for a D. Just for the financial stuff.

I can give you suggestions as to what to ask for and how to approach this. I am in Canada, too. But make that appointment. THAT is the first step. And your WH is bullying you into deciding on a D. YOu don't have to do anything about that part. Tell him NOTHING and say NOTHING to him until the financials are taken care of through the lawyer.

Hi fightingalone-again. Haven't posted for over a month, tho have been doing much reading here as well as SAA. Almost done it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am still in Plan A & doing quite well actually. No LBs & still holding to my boundary of NC w/ our DDs & OW. WH hasn't brought it up since last month so that may be a good thing?

NEhow, you had said that you could "give me suggestions as to what to ask for & how to approach this" in regards to obtaining legal counsel. I am awaiting the phone # of a female Christian lawyer whom a friend of mine knows. I should be able to see her early next week. If you could give me any advice that would help keep my boundaries (as well as not push my WH to file for D....if that's at all likely) it would be greatly appreciated.

This is a very scary step for me, so any help from any one would be much welcomed.

Blessings,
Sammie5

Hi, Sammi. I would be happy to give you help on what to have ready and what to bring to the lawyer and also even what to ask for.

Please be very aware that your WH is not to be trusted. THat is under NO circumstances should you let him know about MB or that you are seeing a lawyer. Not until things are in place.

Going through a lawyer also helps you keep the legal issues separate from the marriage recovery portion. Because when WH makes demands of you regarding support or visitation, you can tell him to contact his lawyer. It will keep you from LBs as you can refuse to talk about legal matters as your lawyer will handle that part. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am very famliar with the court process. I have a LOT of information that I can pass your way that will keep your legal costs down. Trust me, it is a VERY expensive way to go if you go in blind.

I will be happy to share my Yahoo Messenger id and we can chat first. I can post it here and then take it down. Just let me know when you are ready to get it so I can then delete it right after.

I will be around for part of today and then not back until Friday as I am moving <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Talk to you soon.

Haven't posted in months, but have done ++ reading here. Finally finished reading SAA <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am still doing Plan A & my WH is still living w/ the OW.

He has asked me once again to give him a date when our DDs can have sleepovers at his new apt. I told him anytime....so long as OW is not there. Our girls don't even know about her....praise the Lord! But it seems like the time may be coming close when we have to tell them about her. And as for overnights, he could have them legally 50% of the time. I have just been blessed & our DDs protected, as it has been 18 months & this has not happened yet.

Guess the reason I am writing is to ask....do I give my WH a date on when a sleepover w/ OW can take place? Also, we have never together sat our DDs down & discussed w/ them what is going on.....should we? I have told them that Daddy is making very wrong choices right now, but we pray he will begin making right ones & come back home.

Any advice on speaking to our DDs &/or the overnight problem would be greatly appreciated. Kinda at a loss on what the right thing to do is right now. Still want my WH back & want what is best for my DDs.

Thank you.

Have you followed the advice previously given you in regard to getting a legal separation or your finiancial situation settled?

I would NEVER agree to allow my children to have overnights with the OW being present. How are you supposed to raise your daughters with good morals when they are exposed to immoral behavior?

Make it clear to your WH that you will not tolerate your children being exposed to immorality.

You do not have to be a doormat in Plan A.

Have you exposed the affair to everyone? Also, you have probably been Plan Aing too long. Your H might need a glimpse of what life without you in it would look like.

But, FIRST, get things set up legally in regard to custody and finances.

Oh...and making him mad by protecting your children and yourself is not a love buster.

He will get over being mad.

He can have the right to 'abuse' his children with the OW anytime....AFTER THE D.

Where is he @ on the D? Will YOU allow the WS to ABUSE your children with the OW? What do the laws in your area say about abusive R's where children are involved?

L.

Thank you for your responses.

I am still in the process of meeting with a couple of lawyers I got recommendation on to get some legal advice.

In Ontario the law states that each parent is entitled to 50%. My WH is asking to have our DDs for overnights every other w/e. Legally it sounds that I am coming out on top, but we all know that ANY contact my DDs have w/ the OW is going to be detrimental to them.

And that is the info I need to share w/ my WH. I am meeting w/ him late this evening to discuss the "date" I have in mind. But what I really need to share w/ him is WHY our DDs should not be exposed to his living arrangements. I have explained to him in the past what negative impact this will have on them. He says now he doesn't want to hear that. All he wants is a date. I want to say never, but if I do he will go legal w/ this & I will lose my DDs not only every other w/e, but 50% of the time. So, do I give him a date far off & pray 4 a change of his heart before then or just keep telling him the why he shouldn't do this? How can I explain it to him in a way he will understand? I am concerned that his anger will cause him to just come & pick up the girls one day & take them for a sleepover. Something he is legally entitled to do. I could do nothing to stop that & our lil' girls would just think of it so innocently to be going to Daddy's new place for a sleepover.

I need to know if anybody has successfully been able to sway their WS to change their mind about a situation as serious as this. I know he is deep in the fog, but if only I could say or do something this evening that would at least get him thinking about our DDs welfare. If only to stall until this A begins to die.

Sorry for then length of this posting. Thanx 4 the advice thus far. Any further words of wisdom on how to handle tonights discussion would be SO greatly appreciated.

Sammi,

I see that you're in CA. Here in the states, a parent can request "no paramour(s) contact". Meaning that the children of marriage (COM) are not allowed by law to be exposed to their parent's boyfriend(s)/girlfriend(s). The states consider it to detrimental to the children's emotional well-being to be exposed to what seems to be a parent's significant other when there is no actual long term commitment there. The states don't like people coming and going out of children's lives that way.

If you're still married, I can almost guarantee you that even Ontario isn't going to enforce making you let those girls sleep-over with their dad who is living with his girlfriend. She's no blood relation to them, just a shack job. It would be different if they were married, OW would be the step-parent then. But many governments today don't like to risk exposing kids to adults that are no relationship to them in the cozy confines of a "home" setting. You may have a way to make him very uncomfortable with his relationship to OW in this regard. And please do so, to protect your children.


Make it hard on him. If you want the M, don't let him cake eat. He doesn't get to expose those girls to another woman who is taking what is rightfully their mother's place. Get those claws out and fight for your M and your children.

Jewel

Have I read this correctly that you have had temporary sole custody for the last year??? If so, you are almost guaranteed to get full custody during finalization of legal separation/divorce. That's what my lawyer told me a couple of weeks ago, at least, that's the case for Canada (I'm in Quebec)... the longer the kids have been with only one parent for temporary custody, the more likely the judge rules in favor for primary custody with that parent.

Which means, you are highly likely to get full custody child support which could represent a large sum, especially if you decided to file for back payments... that's a whole year of child support. I dunno, but if I were in your WS spouse's shoes, or I was the OW... I would not like that at all. But that's my own opinion.

From what I've read here, on this site, you have been doing plan A for way too long. You must be emotionally drained. Have you considered going to plan B??? I think it's high time you considered it.

Sammi,

Don't be surprised if your 'explanations' fall on deaf ears. WS' have not morals or logic.

Sometimes it is best to also have a back up plan using tools like 'reverse babble'. You can implement these when he starts showing signs of 'not getting it'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Reverse babble gives the WS back their guilt. WS' like to blame the BS and family for the A. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> How stupid.

What would be worse is if you show him that you let him blame you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


Example 1 of reverse babble:

WS: I want the children to meet the OW. She likes kids.

BS: How awful. She might 'like' kids but she certainly doesn't know that OWs are toxic for children. How come you don't know that?

WS: What do you mean by toxic?

BS: Would you like your daughter to associate with a hooker or floozie? Would that make you proud.

WS: OW is NOT a hooker or a floozie.

BS: She's not? Hm..... why... because you don't have to pay? .... or are you paying her? Hey, why is our family money going to pay a hooker? She may have (name a few communicable diseases).... and you want the children t/b around her? I can't protect you from the OW but I can protect my children. I am shocked you don't want to protect our children. This is upsetting me. No the children can't be around the OW, I now have to report that you are seeing a hooker. (then leave.....don't explain who need to report to.....keep 'em wondering).... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Walk away in a huff. You have just turned the tables on him.

Example 2:

WS: It is your fault I can't see my children more often.

BS: It is? Well it will be as long as you continue to be a WS. WS' were never allowed in our home before. Why should they be? They are stink, develop bad habits and hang aroung floozies and hookers. (pinch your nose like there is a stench in the air).... can't you tell how bad you smell?

(This smell tactic, is what I used.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)...It works!

take care,
L.

Thanx all for your advice.

Our "talk" that evening actually went well. But since then my WH obviously got some "input" from OW & my in-laws (who have recently gone to the otherside....big ouch) & he states he wants our DDs overnight w/ OW in their apt over New Years (I am on night shift). I had told him he could have them over at "his" place anytime, but w/out OW there. And that many do have the OP leave when the children come for visitation. Since they know nothing about OW, he thought that unrealistic, cuz "where would I hide all her stuff? She lives there too. They'd find something of hers". He is right. There would be no way for him to hide everything of OWs so that our DDs don't find out he is living w/ someone.

So now I feel stuck. Any idea on what to do w/ OWs stuff? Or do we tell our DDs about the OW, hide as much as he can, & have them over w/ out OW there? Is the biggest issue the children knowing about the adultery or is it the influence of my WH & OW being together around them?

Not sure what to do next. I have finally sought legal counsel <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> The lawyer said my WH is entitled to have them every other weekend according to Ontario's family law act. And that even tho he is living immorally, he has every right to have his DDs w/ him in it as their R has been 18 mos. & they have been living together well over a year. There is nothing I can do. I am going for a 2nd opinion this afternoon.

I am also beginning to think that those of you who said I have been in plan A way too long are right. I am starting to seriously get my mind around plan B.....after the holidays.

Look forward to any advice you have to offer on this painful situation w/ my DDs & overnights w/ their Daddy.