I've been doing a ton of reading of this website, and I think had I found this a few months ago, my life would be very different now. My wife of 15 years and I have just seperated again (we've been apart and back together 5 times in the 15 years - 2 times physically, and 3 times emotionally). I moved out and bought a house close to her home, because I wanted our 2 kids to be able to visit any time easily. I figured this time it was really over for sure. When we were last seperated (for about 90 days) summer of 2005, I did some work on me, and she did the same for herself, and we got back together in the fall, it was awesome, we were both crazy about each other, like it was when we first met. It was wonderful, but it wasn't long before things fell apart again, and in may 2006, I had a one night afair, which I told her about. She was very hurt, but I thought we had worked through it. After reading everything here, clearly I need to do some things very differently, and I truly believe her and I could be happy together if we could read and apply the information presented here. I still love her, and it's killing me to actually be ending our marriage.
Right now she won't talk to me, hardly at all. And even though I've tried to tell her about this website, it's made no difference. We talk about 'business' of the kids and that's really all. She says she can't talk to me on an emotional level right now, and trust between is complely gone for sure. All of that is my fault, for varying reasons.
I want to know what can I do to try and win her back and get her to be willing to accept deposits into her love bank again?
What can I start doing to re-build the trust that got destroyed? Should I tell her about everything going on in my life, even if she won't talk about what's going on with her? I need to know where to start...

Thanks in advance for any help/insight you can provide....

hey TM, I would start by being completely honest w/ her about everything....start bending over backwards w/ her w/ apologies, flowers, cards, presents, agreeing to go to MC, agreeing to go to IC, begging her forgiveness, and showing her how much you love her....I am not the expert on this, but that is what I would do...I am the BS so I am not sure if this will help you...anyone else have any better advice for TM?

ok I'm a little new here, what is...
MC? IC? and BS? in that post?

TTM,
It's a little hard to completely understand your sitch. Need a little more info.
How long married, do you have children, who was the unfaithful here, or was it both of you?

Why did you move out of the marital home?

It's a little confusing exactly what happened in your 15 years of M. Could you be somewhat more eleborate?

What you're stating is very vague to say the least. Need much more details to be of any assistance, probably why you have had not much response. Forum members are at the very least confused.

BTW MC=marriage counseling
IC=Individual counseling
BS=betrayed spouse
Like to be of help, but need much more info to do so. I'm sure others here would also like to help.
So take a minute, and be somewhat more specific, and I'm sure many will pitch in.

All Blessings,
Jerry

MC-marriage counseling
IC-individual counseling
BS-betrayed spouse
WS-wayward spouse (the one who cheated)
WH-wayward husband
WW-wayward wife
OW-other woman
OM-other man
BTW-by the way
A-affair
EA-emotional affair
PA-physical affair

I think that is all of them...did I miss one anybody?

OK, the long version of the story....
Without giving out every little detail of everything, here's the basic situation. My wife and I are currently seperated and living apart. She said she doesn't want to 'try' anymore. I know that it was my angry behavior and emotional abuse that caused her a great deal of pain, frustration and anger herself. Looking back, she worked really hard to please me, and keep our marriage together, but I did some really hurtful and painful things to herm including having a one night afair, and lying to her about some things in my business life. I've admitted how wrong I was and taken full responsibility for my faults. I have not directly asked her for her forgiveness, not yet. I did after the A and she forgave me (or so she said, but I don't think she's totally over it). Right now she will not communicate with me on an emotional level at all, we talk strictly 'business' of life stuff. She told me that she needs time, and space and wants to heal herself in her own way. Which I respect. I've been giving her gifts (cleaning the car, new tires, full tank of gas, ect...) and she told me it was making her uncomfortable, because she didn't want me to become resentful later on. I told her I didn't think I would become resentful, but I'm also not sure what that meant.
Up this point, I've basically treated her terribly, and I understand so much of my bad patterns now, I know I will not repeat them. I just need to know what to do so that I can help her start to trust me again. I'm not seeing anyone, or talking to any other females. I was thinking of giving her a key to my new house, but I'm not sure how she'll take that.

I need some feedback, and advice on how to handle re-building the trust, even if we aren't communicating emotionally.

Thank you again all for your help/support...

It's great that you are reading and posting here TTM.

There are several things you can do to save your marriage. Before attempting to get closer to your W, I would suggest you to contact Dr. Harley for marriage coaching. link

-Get the books Surviving an Affair, Love Busters, Fall in Love Stay in Love, all from Dr. Willard Harley.

-Read the Emotional Needs article on this site and identify your W EN filling the EN questionary pretending to be her. Once you identify her main 3-5 EN see if you can fill them for her.

-Before you can get your W on board to recover your M you have to work on yourself and show her with actions that you are a different man.

-Give her plenty of time, speace and as many apologise as needed for her to really feel that you understand and regret the pain she suffered from your ONS and the emotional abuse. Don't ask her and don't expect her to get over the ONS on your timeline.

Dr. Harley says that to recover form infidelity a marriage has to be incredible better than it was before the affair. You won't get your W trust just by asking for it. Your actions have to show you are able to do whatever it takes for her to feel secure and comfortable:
Total transparency, access to your mail accounts, phone records. Accountability.
No independent behavior.
No female friends.

If one of your Lovebusters was lack of respect to your W needs and feelings, if you try to recover at all cost too soon, you may reinforce her idea that you don't respect her.
Your words of good intentions won't convince her but at some point you should apologise sincerly for the pain your actions caused her and offer her all the details of your ONS and independent behavior.

(Sometimes you'll see some strong language towards people in active affairs on this site, nevertheless, don't feel discouraged to keep posting and learning.)

Thanks for the ideas. I'm following up on all of them. I had already ordered all those books, and I called and signed up for IC.
I have already had my mail forwarded to my new address, maybe I should stop that so she can view/open my mail if she feels the need? Should I offer that to her? What about username and password access to my checking accounts? I went and opened up my own checking account, when I was angry with her, but now I'm looking at a lot of things I did with new eyes. How can I reverse these things?
Will any of these things matter to her if she's feeling done with me?
Without a doubt my biggest lovebuster was lack of respect for her and her feelings. So I don't want to push here. Just be there to support and love her if I can. I'm having trouble figuring out how much is too much, and too soon....

Thanks for the help so far.

For right now, there is no way you can win her back.

I believe you have two choices -

1. You can leave and start over,

2. You can change yourself, and hope she responds over time.



Right now she is hurt. She sees things like flowers, and all your extra efforts as fake attempts to win her back.

I am not suggesting you quit doing these things alltogether, but I am suggesting you try to see it from her point of view and perhaps fine tune it a little bit.

You hurt her badly, you are angry, and abusive to her. Emotionally she reaches the breaking point - and she checks out of your marriage.

She is afraid that if she gives you another chance you will hurt her again. She has set the try again threshold very high. So high in fact that she doesn't think it will ever be reached again.

Your job is to make steady changes that she can see from a distance. If you regress, she will figure she was right. If you can make the changes permanent, she MAY reconsider.

It will take time and patience. It won't come in 6 weeks, and perhaps not 6 months. Often it takes two to three years.

If you think you have it in you to go that long without response, there is a good chance you can make it work.

You don't think your anger will show up again, but I do. Most people who say they have no expectations for the nice things they do, are fooling themselves. If you have bad habits to overcome (anger) then it will be like nearly all bad habits - there will be relapses.

You need to make a plan and settle in for the long haul.

Make your plan on paper.
Figure out how long you are willing to work on this.
Work your plan weekly - and record your progress.
Progress in the short term is not how she reacts, but how well you do the plan as you have it outlined.

If you do what you planned to do, but she starts dating someone else, you give yourself points for running the plan, and you figure this is part of the time and patience, and you go on running the plan.

She will probably test you, they often do. You may be "set up" in some way to test your response. It probably won't be on purpose - meaning that something inside her will have to know, so she will do it without really knowing she is doing it, or without knowing why. You have to be steady, and show her you really are changing. Your actions (over time) will show her much more than any words you can use.

If you continue to read here, and learn all that you can learn, I believe your chances are quite good.

As far as how you can reverse the things you did.........

You need to carefully consider what you want to say. You can tell her in person or in a letter.

It needs to be an apology letter written with love.
You need to explain what you have learned about you.
Tell her you have been, and are researching what makes for a good marriage.
Tell her you realize you have made many mistakes - name them and apologize for the ones you understand. Don't give reasons or excuses as to why you did them it will come across as un-sincere.

Relate how you plan to change yourself, and that you hope she will respond in time. Tell her that she is free to make her own decisions about what she does, but that your wish is to get another chance. Make sure she understands you realize that you have hurt her deeply, and acknowledge the pain you have caused.

Tell her you know there is really nothing you can do to make up for what has happened, but that you need to try anyway, because it's the right thing to do.

Also tell her that you realize you won't ever have a good relationship with anyone until you over come your weaknesses, and that you are making these changes because they are needed for you, no matter what she does.

Put these things in your own words, not too long, and use kindness and love. You can post it here for comments (before you send it) if it will help.

Do little things - stay away from flowers - these types of things won't help, but serve as a reminder of her pain. Every time she sees something like this it will act as a trigger of the bad. If you start small, and if your offers are more basic, it will be easier for her to accept.

Watch the kids when she needs it.
Help with the car. I think taking it and washing it and filling it with gas are helpful. Don't do it weekly, or even every other week. Wait until she is stressed, and then do it without her knowing. Watch her for signs - listen to her, and you will get an idea of when she needs it.

Be the best dad you can possibly be.
That doesn't have to mean trips, or gifts - though it could.
It means you help them pick out a gift for her for Christmas. Something thoughtful. It doesn't need to be expensive.

It means (and I don't know how old the kids are) you help them with homework. It means you enforce the rules so they don't go home and say "well, dad lets me do that, how come you won't let me?"

If one of them needs something, you help them with it. Communicate with her about it though, sometimes surprises are difficult and can be taken wrong.

Asking her for family time together - for happy memories for the kids can be good, but be careful. Short day trips might be better than overnight stays. You plan the outing, you do the work, get the tickets, buy the food or prepare the picnic. Perhaps things the family likes to do, and has always enjoyed. Don't push her, make suggestions, and read her mood, and body language. If you really pay attention to her response, you will learn what works, and what doesn't work.

Again, small things like a bike ride, or a picnic in the park may be better than a national theme park. Spend some time in thought, it will pay off in the long run.

I suggest you continue to communicate with her. You have to be careful, and feel your way along. If you are too personal, she will want space, but if you are too cold, she will not feel the love you want her to feel. This will come with time, you won't get it all at once.

There is much more, but we can't give it to you all at once.

What do you think, are you good for two to three years?

SS

Hi TM....

Your situation sounds sooooo similar to mine....married 15 yrs, several separations, lack of care and respect, anger, withdrawal. We just didn't know how to handle conflict or meet each other's needs. We both are so sad we didn't find the info on this site years ago.

It all makes perfect sense doesn't it? Since my husband and I have found this site, we have been amazed at how much our relationship has improved....AND ALL THE WHILE DEALING WITH THE DISCOVERY OF HIS AFFAIR!!! So, the info on this site must be pretty dang good if we can feel better about our marriage even though I'm going through the worst pain in my life.

I've only been on this site for a few months so I'm still "new". I do believe that in your situation though you should be in "Plan A". Please read about plan A on this website. There's also a plan A/plan B thread in these forums. Look deep inside yourself and work on cleaning up your side of the street, your faults.

In time, your wife will see some very real changes in you and will want to be with you. It sounds like she still loves you very much but is unsure of that now. As a betrayed spouse, I'll tell you that it's not going to be easy to trust you again but there's ALOT you can do to help her with that.

You need to be COMPLETELY honest with her about every single aspect of your life. Give her all the affair details she wants no matter how bad you think she'll handle it. Hold her close and tell her what a fool you've been and that the OW doesn't hold a candle to her. Hold her closer if she gets angry. Let her get some stuff off her chest. Ignore HER LB's for the "affair", not marriage, conversations.

Go out of your way many times a day, every day, to let her know how sorry you are for hurting her. Little by little show her some stuff from this web site. I would start with the EN questionnaire because to me, it's like a carrot. Everyone wants to get their needs met. Right now she is detaching from you, I'm sure, to self protect, so she may not trust you with this part yet. She's extremely vulnerable right now.

Please spend hours reading this website. There's a ton of stories in here that you'll be able to relate to and get tons of advice.

I'm very sorry for your situation and I pray you'll have patience, tons of it, with her. Don't give up. Even if she says she wants a divorce and files, don't give up. This stuff works, trust it.

You absolutely, positively need to read about "love busters" on this site. This will be very helpful in your communication with her so you can prevent your "love deposits" from draining out.

Guessing what your wife’s needs are on the "emotional needs" questionnaire is o.k. for now, if she's not willing to do this yet. You can guess hers for now, but try to get her to answer her own when you think it's safe to bring it up to her. You might have to plan A her for awhile before she's receptive to this idea. What you think are her EN’s could be totally different. I surprised my H of 15 yrs with a few of mine. And I gotta tell you, I am totally loving the way he's meeting my needs now.

Also....very important....your wife and you were both 50% responsible for the problems in your marriage, but you and only you, were 100% responsible for the affair. Nothing she did during your marriage "made" you cheat. You have to understand that!

Take care and hang in there.

The IC could show your W that you are really working on yourself but for Marriage Recovery you may benefit more with some sessions with The Harley's because they have designed a very effective plan to MR from infidelity. You can also listen the radio program on line and even call or send them mail. It truly makes a difference, like going on a fast line.

The impression I get from your posts is that your W is exhausted emotionaly. I would recomend you no to approach her directly about marriage talks but show her through your actions that you want to stay married.

Close all mail accounts to which she doesn't have access. You may keep your personal check account but be very open about it.
During your phone conversations be kind, cheerful, casual and if she opens a little just let her talk like if you were her friend.
Casual pleasent talks and normal, peaceful interactions in daily life would make her feel little by little more confortable.

True remorseful attitude goes a long way as well as sincere apologies but you may have to wait a little to express that.

There may be a risk that she could engage in an affair of her own. It's on your best interest to get back together as soon as possible but you can't force her. That's why I suggested to coach with Dr. Harley.

Other things you can do:

Identify your lovebusters.
Identify and stop your annoying habits.
Identify and stop your disrespetful judgements.
Take decisions taking in consideration what she would preffer.

Look attractive, dynamic, gentle, relaxed.
Don't beg, rasone, whine, blackmail.

Thanks for everyone's input. I truly appreciate it. I'm so thankful I found this website, and I've already scheduled an appointment with Dr Harley. I'm going to take pieces of everyone's advice and go from there.
I agree that she is emotionally exhausted, and shot from 'trying' with me. She is unwilling to talk about her feelings with me, and is keeping a fair ammount of distance. I'm going to compose a letter to her, and I'll post it here for everyone to read/critique.
Thanks again for the help so far...

Congratulations TTM for your attitude and openess to learn and work on you.

Thank you for taking the time to lay out so much in yor reply to me. I'm starting my journey and laying out my plan. Right now she wants time and space, and virtually no contact from me. I tried and it only made her more angry. So I'm backing off. I know her well enough to know that in that past, a couple of months, and she'll open up a little. Although I'm afraid this time, it will be different. I don't think I have any choice but to stay that course, and work on me in the meantime. You say I will be tested, and I'm not sure what this will look like. Do you have any ideas. I'm certain that you are right, and I know the test will come, I just wish I knew what it will look or feel like before it does, so i can be more prepared. Any thoughts?

Thanks again for the help

Thank you so much for your advice. I've been working on me big time. My W is still non-respondant. But I have faith and patience. I'm working on me in a big way. Even though she's un-responsive, should I try and meet her EN? I'm afraid right now it might back-fire....

Ideas?

- TTM

I'll try to get back to you soon. Keep smiling - as much as yo you can anyway.

SS

Even though she's un-responsive, should I try and meet her EN? I'm afraid right now it might back-fire....

You want to get the EN work sheet from the site, and fill it out as best you can FOR HER. In other words, take it as though you were her. Also the LB work sheet.

It may not be 100% accurate, but it will be a start.

Once you have an idea of what her needs are, and what LB's you were doing, you can make a plan to meet some needs and eliminate the LB's.

Larousse was right with the advice given, and it's good to read it again a few times.

If most of your interaction is about the kids, and one of her needs is conversation, then talk to her about the kids. Not manufactured things that she will know aren't important, but think hard and find a reason to talk. I don't know the kids ages - so it's hard to recommend something at this point.

When you do talk to her, ask if there is anything she needs help with - the car, the kids, and so on. Don't pry, just ask, and if she says no, leave her alone.

I assume by now you have some kind of arrangements to take care of finances, and the kids. Would you mind telling us a little about that.

How about your appointment with the Harleys? What happened with there?

It's hard to keep up with everyone here sometimes, If you have it on other threads, I'm sorry for asking, I just don't get to read everything I would like.

Tell us a little about your interactions with her - and what they were like.

What have you read at this point (meaning which Harley books)

How was Christmas for you? Did you have time with family?

The answers will help us know where to go next.

SS