Nope, they sell bad music...while dressed sexy. Now if you said Paris Hilton, I would agree with you.

wow... I can't believe this little topic is getting this attention. I have gotten the info I needed in order to talk to my friend... it will happen today. Thank you all for your input.

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I hope it turns out well for you and your friend. Let us know how it goes.

Mys

It is a great verse. It is also one of the most widely misinterpreted verses in the Bible. We are asked to judge... commanded to do so... but that we should not be hypocrites about it. Scripture 101.

I never said I wasn't judging... you used the word condemn.



If my friend has stopped cheating... he has now had several affairs.. I would welcome him back in my life anytime. I miss him. But as time has passed, his life has become more and more screwed up. He tried to use me and other friends to cover his A. And when confronted by his wife, after I told her what happened, HE blamed me saying that I was lying about what he was doing.... you know the story.. it is right out of the WS handbook. Rather than using that opportunity to redeem himself... he dug himself a deeper grave.
I choose to seperate myself from people behaving in such an immoral way. Since you quoted the Bible to me, you should know we are commanded to do that also.

MEDC,

Refining my thinking here about your friend I would like to add to my previous post.

If you are a true friend to him, you will of course risk your friendship to express your concerns for HIS own benefit. I could not stand idly by and watch any of my own personal friends subject themselves to unreasonable exposure to influences that could be damaging to them.

I guess this is why my TRUE friends have now dwindled down to being countable on about three fingers.

I embrace the painful truth from them; and they from me. All truth is not painful, but everyone in this place understands how important it is to bring on honesty, and this situation should be no different than everything else that you do with honor.

The understanding that I have about human behavior is that you determine what’s inside a person’s soul by looking at what they DO with their life.

If this girlfriend of his is making self deprecating and destructive choices right now then don’t date her now. Of course she’s not shackled to being a boob shaker for the rest of her life, but her actions will determine that and nothing short of that.

People don’t confuse judging a person’s behavior and judging their character. Character is changeable, history is not; to invalidate their real personal story by disregarding their actions is to turn your back on who they really are based upon their WISDOM and experiences in life.

I and everyone else reading here is the SUM of their experiences in life and what they take away from those.

How do I know that I don’t respect the choice of being a stripper? Because I would be devastated if my daughter were to take up the trade later in her life! Inside of me it is wrong wrong wrong.

Yes I occasionally visited strip joints when I was a younger man. In my 20’s it was a place to go and hang out with my buddies while they all fantasized about taking the girl home for a shag or imagined themselves being someone that they weren’t.

I let peer pressure get the best of me in those days gone by and ALWAYS felt guilt after leaving. I left my own bachelor party because I was overcome with shame for being in a fully nude dance club.

It was the last time that I ever went to one.

Your buddy’s female friend may be a wonderful person, but she’s got messed up priorities IMO. I would recommend one of the other 3,500,000,000,000 people that may not have such extreme perspectives on the world and what is ok with them morally.

This is all based upon my opinion as a MB’r, and seeing life through the eyes of someone that has endured through an A in my M.

You could probably find a more supportive argument for reasons why he should pursue a “serious” relationship with this woman from a less site that has perspective less tainted by the real tragedy of adultery.

Take care friend.

it was Daydreams?
that was one of the clubs where she worked....it's a byob isn't it?
i know a bartender there who made 100's of dollars to open guys beers for them.

the show i saw didn't have full nudity.

Plank... as always much appreciated. Save a finger for me friend.
How's the fishing?

yes, daydreams... if you want more info on it... I suggest a web search,
daydreams/g-string divas

sorry, but I hate to "promote" a place like that.

sorry....i wasn't trying to get you to promote it....no initentins of doing that. just found it ironic.

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** Post Deleted **

From Penalty Kill


I understand your point. I would say that the behavior *is* incorrect....for you. But people are fallible. I think that everyone can look back on their past and say, "I shouldn't have done this....it was wrong". And I do draw a disctinction between a murderer and someone who takes her clothes off for paying customers. The murder victim has no choice, as opposed to the stripper's clientele. They are willing victims.


Agreed. That I was. No argument there.


Well, I look at it another way. I come from a dysfunctional, multi-divorced, but financially comfortable background. Thus, I had educational opportunities that were not open to the ghetto child, and expectations of academic success.

The stripper that I knew had neither. She didn't like what she did....but felt she had no choice for a while. Too easy for me to say I wouldn't make the same choice - I didn't have to.


Well, the MARRIED people don't have to be there. So I guess that I'm not understanding your point. I think that the married men who are there are the morally reprehensible ones. The stripper? I may not like what she does, but I never was angry with the strippers when my H went to the clubs. I was angry with him. I lost respect for him when he went on about how it was "erotic" having so many different looking women around. How am I supposed to deal with that? I never let myself go, far from it, but I'm only one woman....who felt she couldn't keep her H interested enough to respect her and her feelings. The sad part is that I allowed his actions to cause me to lose respect for myself. That is where I really went wrong.


Does that mean it would be ok if all the customers were single? Prostitution is a crime (in most states) no matter what the status of the john. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.


He did get a lap dance. More than one. And I had BEGGED him not to, knowing where he was going and being unhappy about it. I heard for years about how it wasn't infidelity because it wasn't sex. About how other wives (or at least one other wife) were fine with it, what was my problem? Then, after he found out about my A, he took what was written here in this forum as "See? No one thinks what I did matters. You are the one who was unfaithful. There's NO ONE who would equate what I did with what you did".

Well, the point wasn't the equation of the two, strip clubs = a sexual affair. The point was the systematic long-term destruction of my respect for my husband and for myself. I felt that at the time I posted that most people brushed off my very valid feelings, simply because I had been sexually unfaithful. That my H's lousy behavior got a big pass because he was the BS.

And yes, 10S, I remember your post. It started my H thinking, always a good thing. But then all of your posts do that!


I wasn't trying to justify my infidelity. I don't believe that I ever said anything along the lines of "Well, my H went to strip clubs and got lap dances so I think he shouldn't be upset that I had an A. He deserved it!".

Please. I could never even justify it to myself, wouldn't see or speak to the guy for months at a time. I ended the A on my own, I wasn't caught in the act. I rebuffed further attempts at contact and felt only relief that it was all behind me. I never did it again. But my H's question was always, "Why? Why would you do such a thing?". A logical question that deserved a real answer. I remembered very, very well how the strip club/lap dance made me feel. How it made me feel to be ganged up on by my H and his best creepy friend for being unreasonable and objecting to their fun.

My husband was more than insensitive. I will always feel that he was unfaithful to me with every part of his body except his d*ck. AND HE HAD ZERO REMORSE. All the justification about behavior came from him. It wasn't sex, so it was fine. Period, end of story, you have no right to be upset.

In the end, of course all my adultery did was to cause us both pain. I should have made different choices. But I have come to the conclusion that it doesn't make me a bad person. And it doesn't make me my H's inferior, though I am sure some would disagree, which is fine. I am simply a human being who was weak and stupid and hurting.

If he had a lap dance he was also unfaithful with his dic*! It's not his toes that are there for the grinding.

As far as the rest of your post goes... we will need to agree to disagree.

Maybe not prostitution, but not too far from it...I worked there while in college for a whole TWO WEEKS...I couldn't take it...I did not want to become jaded towards men because of the way many of them to acted in this environment...Plus, they made you hoola hoop in front of the entire restaurant...Only one purpose for that that I could see-pretty degrading...It honestly is nothing more than a training camp for strippers...I figured that out quickly and didn't let the door hit me where the good Lord split me on the way out! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

P.S. Plus can you get any cheesier than polyester dolphin shorts and suntan pantyhose??? Methinks Not!

it is pretty cheesy.
what's cheesier? a couple of 40something men sneeking there for a "business lunch". ooh, how degrading.

And with that, we can call Britney Spears, Jessica Simpson, etc protitutes, because that is what they sell, sex.

Bingo.

I may slightly disagree about SOME nude art or other nudity related issues [medical stuff comes to mind right off the top of my head] although historically a LOT of the "models" WERE prostitutes. Nudity isn't necessarily selling sex per say and you don't have to BE nude to be selling sex.

Now here's the sticky wicket.

Your spouse says...I will feel enthusiastic about XXXXX if you give me oral sex every day.

Prostituting or negotiating?

Tricky tricky.

is he (she) enthusiastically paying for it?
don't you have to sell it for it to be prostitution?

I dunno.

I could argue that sex used to barter is currency.

I don't have a cemented position here but I think it's an interesting question.

Pardon me, but when I worked, the clients were not allowed to touch me with any part of their body. I did not sit in their laps (neither did anyone else) This might be a technicality since I was inches away, but there was no bodily contact allowed where I worked. (the so-called worst offender according to your previous post.)

I should also note that I have been to strip clubs before I worked in one many times with my husband and I have had a lap dance myself, and I have never seen bodily contact.

There is no "grinding" bodily contact, at least never while I was working. No touching at all during the lap dances and the bouncers were vigilant.

It's a small point, but I'm confused by what exactly you meant MEDC.

And for the record, I believe if a woman doesn't want her husband to go to such clubs, the husband has absolutely no business going there. At the time it never occurred to me that wives had a legitimate reason to be upset.

Sadly before I was cheated on, I so totally did not get it. I have posted many times since the very first day I came here, I never dreamed I would have any problem with my husband cheating. I just always believed he would love me more than anyone else, and treat me that way and keep me on a pedestal.

I didn't understand how hurt and humiliating it is when your husband takes you off that pedestal, and replaces you with someone else in their mind and heart.

I had never had my heart broken before. I was very naive that way.

Ironically, the day before my husband confessed, I had a long talk with a fellow I worked with who told me of his affair. I had mentioned how close he and his wife are. She worked there too.

To my surprise he told me they were divorced. Yet everyday they ate lunch together and took long walks together. He always treated her with great loving care and respect.

I was amazed at his story. He had an affair with another woman who became pregnant and had a daughter. His wife gave him two sons. They had been together many years before his affair, his sons were nearly grown. The A ran its course quickly and he doesn't even like the OW anymore in spite of loving his daughter.

His wife could never forgive him, so they remained living in separate houses near each other, and he continues to woo her every day. His heart was broken.

I felt so bad about his story and for him, and I couldn't understand how she couldn't just forgive him, couldn't she see how much he loved her, it seemed so clear.

And then the next day my husband dropped the nuclear bomb on me, and the world changed.

I think it's also important to understand that I have never ever approved of cheating. I have never dated a married man, and have actually treated married men who propositioned me with the derision they deserve.

I didn't 'get' how going out anywhere without your spouse's heartfelt blessing is Disrespectful and Wrong. I'm very sad that I was so blind. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

If I had understood it, I would have stood up for my feelings in my own marriage differently. I accepted this in my husband, because I thought I was supposed to.