my wife and i just got back from a funeral. it was a three hour drive one way. on the way home, we talked.

my wife told me, she doesn't respect me, she resents me, she finds me unattractive and is embarrassed by me physically and socially. she feels smothered by me and if she stayed she would need more freedom. she swears that she will never cheat on me again or have contact with the OM. When I said that I was hurt by her statements and that I can't see how I can remain in the marriage any longer, she said that I was "over-reacting" and that I asked her to tell me the truth and when she does I start divorce talk.

i told her that i don't want to be excluded from my spouses social life and that if she was "embarrassed" by me, that this doesn't really leave much room for saving the marriage. In the last 2 years I have lost 40 lbs. In the last 6 months I've gained back about 10lbs. I am overweight, but I'm not obese. I am a forty year old professional. I make decent money and I've always thought I was viewed as fun to be around.

I'm hurt and really don't see how I can stay married to her after these comments.

these comments make me think your spouse is still involved in the A

that's what I was thinking, but i've been watching and outside of work, i don't think anything is going on. plus she said some things concerning contact with OM that makes it sound like she really is staying away.

she said she had to schedule a training in the computer lab and it was near the OM's office and that it made her feel ill all day because she was concerned that she would see him. she said that she will not go to the xmas party if the om is going.

truthfully, it just sounds like she doesn't love me or like me.

IMO she's there in her mind.
if she's not currently acting on it, she will.
get a life independent of her. do things that have made you feel good in the past. build up your self esteem. either way she can't take that from you.
she sounds conflicted and looking for a reason to stay or go. that's when Plan A works the best.

i've heard the whole OP 'makes me sick' b/c it's what my WH thought a morally just person would say in that situation.
I hope your wife chooses the right path.

Stay strong it's a journey.

i hope you are in plan A

perhaps this is just withdrawl from the A....wait to hear from others

Here is what your problem is, they are still in contact.As long as they continue to see each other, she will never withdraw and your marriage will never recover. She is a "recovering" alcoholic who is still having drinks but just calls them "work drinks." That is real cute, but it absolutely prevents withdrawal.


It will stay this way until contact ends. She will never withdraw and you are looking at an on-again, off again affair for YEARS to come.

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html


Mimi wrote: Check this out from the How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS..one of my favorite pieces of reading material...

p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

jj, I went back and read your other posts, so I am now up to speed on your situation. I see that you already know that contact must end and are planning on going into Plan B. That is the answer for you, IMO, rather than just moving to divorce.

All of the mean, hateful things she said to you were said because she is still addicted to the OM and has never recovered. She is also angry because you have occasionally interfered in her affair, which tells me she is FAR from done with her affair. A WS who is done with their affair will not resent your efforts to stop it once it is all over.

This has gone on so very long, that I think your only solution is to go into Plan B as soon as you can. Not only has she rightfully lost all respect for you, but I think your lovebank and nervous system are long overdrawn. Going into Plan B may restore some much needed respect from her and protect her from her abuse.

Welcome to Marriage Builders, sorry you are here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

During conversation in car, my wife said that she plans on finding another job. She said that she is uncomfortable working in the same office/building as the OM. She said that during meetings, she feels that she can't go to the other side of the room, because that is where he sits, and that she can't "visit" with co-workers that are friends of his.

I have mixed feelings. It is almost impossible to consider staying married to someone who says that they don't respect you, they resent you and they don't find you attractive. What's left????

For now, I plan on hanging around for the holidays and either filing for divorce after xmas or at the very least a legal separation.

I guess I should mention that my wife says that she is trying to figure out why she had the affair. She says that the only thing she can come up with is that she was unhappy in the marriage and that I didn't make her feel valued and that I was too controlling. She likes to go out to the bars with her friends and stay out late, and I used to get upset about it.

jj, does she still go out to bars with her friends? Of course that should upset you because it is grossly disrespectful. Thats not a matter of being "controlling" [a typical accusation made my folks who are engaging in wrongdoing] but a matter of protecting your marriage.

What was your marriage like before all this happened? Was she this disrespectful before the affair?

I think she began being this disrespectful about a year of so before the affair. She started going out more with a couple female co-workers. They were all married, so she said she didn't understand why I would care. She would go to after work get togethers two or three times a year (christmas, etc . . .).

But overall she it wasn't too bad. My concern was not that she was behaving poorly, but that this kind of behavior might lead to an inappropriate act (which it did).

I thought once our daughter arrived, she would change. She didn't, it just meant that we went out less and she went out the same or more.

I think that hanging out in bars when you are married IS poor behavior. It is just asking for trouble and is very destructive behavior.

If I were you, I would look into counseling with Steve Harley at Marriage Builders. I think she has gotten way off track here for some reason and is looking for a way back. She just doesn't know how to get back. He can probably help with this.

The things that she says about resenting you and not finding you attractive are CLASSIC comments of a WS so that does not concern me at all. Those feelings can and do change once withdrawal from the affair is over given that you do the right things to attract her back. I think SH could help you in this regard.

He is an excellent counselor who understands infidelity. He won't waste a minute of your time and will be worth every penny. I think he charges $185 per session.

unfortunately my wife will not go to any more marriage counselors. she said that after going to 3 different ones, they made her feel worse about me and our marriage. truthfully I think they made her feel defensive and worse about herself.

my wife has cut going out to the bars down to about 1 or 2 times a year. she does go out to dinner with some girlfriends occassionally and has drinks, but hasn't went out to a bar since around june of last year. she does plan on going to her work xmas party next week. it will be at a bar. she says that she will try and find out if the OM is going and if he is, she will not go. i am not invited or she doesn't want me to go, she says she is embarrassed by how i act, look and also the fact that i did confront the OM outside of their office once in front of some co-workers.

she said I can have my spys watch her if it makes me feel better.

part of my problem is that since there has been so much time passed since i first discovered the affair and found the marriage builders plan, i'm not sure if it is not too late to put them into action. i'm wondering and so is my wife if there just isn't too much damage for us to ever recover from this mess.

Here's my issues with this...

first....how will she find out?? She has way too much concern for what he is doing, if not directly, indirectly.

second...this is why she does not want you around...she is embarrassed by HER actions and is blaming you...you confronting a threat to your marriage in front of others should not be a problem, ever. What you did was a form of exposure, the killer of all affairs....


Look....your feelings are quite normal and what you need to do is think about whether or not you want to save this M...WS's have ugly ways of expressing themselves...yours is no different....

good luck...

jj, Steve can assess your situation and give you a PLAN. He is a pretty clever at luring reluctant spouses into MC and giving them hope. I think he is extremely good and might be able to turn this around for you if it can be turned around.

i think someone said it cost 185 dollars. does he accept insurance coverage? i doubt i can afford to talk to him otherwise, especially with the holidays.

i would like to save my marriage, but i don't want to do it alone. i want my wife to be the partner she is supposed to be. i don't want to worry everyday she goes to work about whether she is talking to the OM, I want her to make the right decisions, not for me, but for us and our family.

Hello jj,

Nothing is ever going to be certain in this mess, but I just wanted to give you some words of hope. My WW said many of the exact same things in the first days of withdrawal. She finds me disgusting, could never love me, could never have SF with me. She also lashes out when I do things that endanger the A: Set boundaries around NC, expose to friends, etc. A few weeks later and we've had SF and I see her SLOWLY starting to come around.

There's only 2 things you can do during this. 1) Make yourself attractive. Get busy with your life, hit the gym, develop hobbies, expand your social network, be happy or at least feign happiness. You can't change her but you can change you. 2) Try to have the strength to not take her comments during this time personally, and even harder, have the strength to eventually take her back WITHOUT expecting an apology, because one may never come.

This is essentially Plan A followed by having the courage to forgive without reservation. I'd say it's never too late for Plan A.

My major word of warning though, as others have said, is that NONE of this will work as long as she is in that office. One of them has to leave.

NS

jj, you will have to do it alone for now. You can't force her along. But there are things you can do to make her WANT to come aboard. That is what I think SH can help you with. But as you can see, she is not going to help you right now. That does NOT mean you should give up, though.

I am not sure if the Harley's take insurance, but you can call and check on that.

Good post, notsleeping. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />