Hi SD,

I try to follow your thread, although I must admit that most of the time you all are talking above my head!. I'm a black-and-white kind of girl, so that gray area stuff whizzes by me.

You sure have been at it for a long while. Did you give yourself a time limit? In SAA, Dr. Harley says to decide on a time limit for Plan B, so just wondered what yours was. I believe he said 18 months.

so stop trying to please others...

YOU need to walk this path to the end, no matter how long it takes you. It's YOUR path.

I don't think I am trying to please anyone else, but it helps when someone knowledgable reminds us that the SCQ's actions are still proceeding according to the wayward script and that there are reasons not to give up above and beyond my own healing. At this point, however, I don't think I care whether or not the SCQ comes back. I'll be happy either way.

Thanks for dropping by, KG. It's been 8 months of Plan B now. When I started, Jennifer cautioned me to pace myself (it's a marathon, not a sprint)--"this could take a year." When I started, it was three months, then check. Then another three months, and check. I do okay when I recognize triggers and don't fall out of Plan B, so I haven't quit yet.

I'm not sure what it even means to quit. I used to think it was when I decided to leave her to her fate and said 'whatever happens happens' and decided not to expend any more effort for her and that this would happen when we signed the divorce papers. I think, however, that I am doing this now.

At some point, divorce papers will probably come, and I will sign them. After that, who knows? Divorce need not be an endpoint. I'm not going to wait around forever, though.

Yeah, because (as you know) you are talking about two entirely different things.

I think leaving her to her fate and saying whatever happens happens and deciding not to expend any more effort on her IS letting go. That's essentially the definition of "letting go." This is emotional. It has to do with what is going on in your heart and mind, and you get there slowly...so slowly and so painfully.

The divorce papers are the business end of it. You sign the papers and its done. It's awful and horrible, but it has nothing to do with what's going on inside you. It has to do with property and finances.

It's easy--and maybe a bit reassuring?--to think that once the papers are signed, everything magically feels better. If only....

Now that I think of it, that's probably what WSs think...that as soon as the papers are signed, that FINALLY everything will be rosy. Ta-dah!

Nope, you won't. When you "let go," you probably won't feel as if you are "waiting around" at all. You'll just be living in the NOW, with the life that is around you, the people who are around you, and letting the future take care of itself. Appreciating what's real, what you have now...not regretting and pining for what you don't have now.

Instead of trying to see the whole forest, you appreciate the trees?

When you let go, it's there, she's there, but more off in the distance...where she belongs. Not a part of your immediate environment. Not primary, but secondary. Secondary to YOU and what is around you and who is around you.

Oh...what do I know? It all sounds good on paper, but putting it into action is really hard.

I feel like I keep jacking your thread.

(BTW, thinking about D papers that will "probably come" is just setting yourself up for additional anxiety. I know it's hard to not anticipate, but you really have no idea what will happen, so why go looking for trouble? You have enough to deal with without creating reasons to be anxious all on your own. BR would probably say it was a control thing, too, but I'm not sure how exactly.)

Sis, you are *always* welcome to think out loud on my thread (even if it feels like TJ'ing).


Amen. But it gets easier, I think.


Yeah, I expected that someone would club me over bringing that up (you were very gentle). I really mentioned it only in response to Knitgirl's question about my deadline. I used to think it was when the divorce papers were signed. Last night I started to say something about my 40th birthday, which is in December (like how a few months ago I said I wanted to spend it with the SCQ, but now I feel like I'm not going to spend it wanting to be with the SCQ), but it felt forced. Whatever happens happens.


This is a really interesting thought. I expect you're right. Oh, well.

April 3. Acceptance and surrender--two concepts that hurt the most before we do them.

I second this. I'm pretty good on the acceptance portion, still struggle with the surrender part. But maybe it is just the word "surrender". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I think, with acceptance, a certain amount of surrendering HAS to happen. I've surrendered my steely grip on what I THOUGHT I could control in WH's affair when I accepted that he had free will of his own. No matter what I do or don't do, WH makes his own choices.

You and Sis seem to be working off of each other so well - taking the advice of the experienced, discussing it for further clarification, and moving on.

Beautiful, just beautiful. You're getting there...with each passing moment.

FYI - I was asked out a few minutes ago. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Flattering as all get out, but my reply was "thank you, Jim, that is so flattering, but I am still married"

He was not aware of the situation and I no longer wear my wedding ring (though the scar is still there), so it was an honest mistake to make. Awkward, though.

Best to you,
Fox

Feeling good the past couple of days. Very engaged at work and getting things accomplished. Eating.

Congrats on getting asked out, Fox. Must be nice. (I would call you Foxy Lady, too, but I'm married.)

Glad to hear you are doing well, Guy Smiley. That eating thing...you gotta do it. I'm still working on this. I eat kind of hit and miss. If DDs aren't there for dinner, I don't eat.

I notice it the next day. In general, I don't eat breakfast and depending on business of the day, no lunch either. By afternoon, I'm starting to get light headed, tired, and less focused. Dinner comes again and I'm not hungry because I feel sick.

It's not just food....it's nourishment for mind AND body.



<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Excellent enforcement of your personal boundary.

Just put in your back pocket for future reference that you can lift a woman's spirits in the simplest of ways. When you have the opportunity, wake up in the morning, look at your wife and say "good morning, Beautiful". Like it's her NAME, not just an adjective.

Goes the other way, too.

When it's appropriate for me, I'll do the same, or when he answers the phone when I call, say "Good afternoon, Handsome (or Hot Stuff, or whatever), how is your day?"

I've started to do this with DDs. Making sure that I am giving them positive comments each day on various things. Pointing out all the good thins about them...specifically.

Fox

Way to go, Fox. No matter that it was awkward...an ego boost is an ego boost. Take 'em where you can get 'em. Being a BS gives the old ego a pretty big smack-down.

From my thread, sd said:
I say get out the sledge hammer and beat the crap out of the stupid coffee table! Draw down the balance in that anger bank!

Seriously, I am so glad that you seem to be much more comfortable with FEELING, experiencing and expressing your feelings...you are developing strategies that allow you to FEEL your feelings, process them, and then put them away, toss them...whatever is right.

Keep writing, keep venting, keep yelling, keep feeling. You've accumulated a big balance in that anger bank, so give yourself time to empty it out. You're doing it.

And look, even though those feelings are coming out, you are still here, you are still in control of YOU, you are still managing to care for the kids, go to yoga, go to work, and even (gasp) eat! You're doing this, too.

You are doing great! I think you are on your way....

YAY!

SD,

Do you ever go back after a particularly difficult day or issue and re-read your posts?

I find this very helpful to me becuase it helps me see where I started on an issue/event and then where I ended up after posting, reading responses, and working through it.

YOU, my friend, have been doing an amazing job, which is why I suggest that you do the same. Re-read what you have posted lately. SEE and read for yourself how FAR you have come recently. Give yourself some Kuddos as they are very well deserved.

I like to hear you are very engaged at work. For me, this has always been a saving grace, and am glad that it is starting to be that way for me again recently. Grab on to what keeps you going in life!

Hope you have a great holiday!

Thanks for the thoughts, Bugs, Sis, and Fox. I kept meaning to come on and post about how well I've been doing, but I haven't found the time. So, the good feelings have continued, due in part to new meds kicking in as well as getting away from recent triggers. It's been easier to not think about the SCQ or how her choices are harming the kids.

A week ago, my mom had dinner over at the SCQ's townhouse with the kids. I wasn't crazy about this idea--I can appreciate why she wanted to do it (see where and how the kids live, make things seem more normal for the kids), but my gut reaction was one of anger toward the SCQ and being opposed to anything that makes things seem more normal and okay. My concession was that Mom not tell me what happened, because the details of her lunch with the SCQ was a major trigger, and I don't want to know what happens over there.

A couple of weeks ago, I proposed that the holiday weekend be used to spend individual time with the kids (i.e., I have one, she has the other one). She had been wanting one of us to have the whole weekend. As an alternative to the individual time plan, I said that I would take them for the whole weekend if she wanted, leaving it unsaid that she couldn't have the whole weekend. She accepted the proposal last Thursday.

Going to a barbecue with neighbors. More weekend details later.

So. Weekend. My parents had been here for a while and were leaving on Saturday. The schedule had the kids with me for Wed and Thurs, back to the SCQ on Fri and Sat, and then back with me for Sun. The SCQ asked me if I wanted the kids Friday night so that they could spend the last night with the grandparents, and I said yes.

Later on Thursday, she proposed that she have DS7 on Saturday (I have DD4 on Saturday, when there was a birthday party with neighbors that I said I'd take her to--because the neighbors all know the story now, so SCQ is avoiding them), switching at 4 pm on Sunday for the rest of the weekend. This is fine. I have the kids extra on Friday and Saturday.

DD4 and I had a good time. I didn't overschedule the time--I did whatever she wanted to do. Lots of games. We played some soccer, Did sidewalk chalk. Played with the kitten. Watched plenty of Scooby Doo (I've been TIVOing the originals, which she really likes. Better than Star Wars, I think. Maybe I'll try ABBA on her next). A trip to the beach. Good stuff. She didn't want to go back to the SCQ's and told me this a few times.

Sunday at 4 we did the switch. I managed to not see the SCQ, which was good. I made the time with DS7 about him--watching baseball, trip to the Family Fun Center (go-carts, arcade games, and mini golf), trip to the beach today. Today was a good day, ending with the neighborhood party.

In the course of this, DS7 tells me that POSOM was there while he was with SCQ. I probe a bit and find out that at least SOME of the time he was with the SCQ, POSOM wasn't there, and I tell him that I'm glad he got to spend some time with his mother. Later he tells me (in one of those offhand he wants me to know kind of ways) that they had an overnight on Friday and spent the night at POSOM's brother's house. He didn't know why and said there was nothing he could do about it.

So, this is, of course, outrageous, but I don't think there's anything I can do about it. I told DS7 as much. I don't think there's any point in confronting the SCQ on it--I imagine she would be defensive and perceive it as a challenge to her mothering abilities, which it would be.

I think she is completely the follower in this affair, not that it really matters. I just can't think of why else she would drag DS7 on an overnight like that. God only knows where she's taken DD4 these last two nights.

So, yes, this is also triggering, but I've managed to avoid depression over it.

I had too much wine at the barbecue. I hope this was coherent. And that everyone had a good holiday weekend.

Oh Smiley, i'm sorry that you ahd to learn this...I heard a little something myself last night!

My question to you is: Here, WS are not allowed to have over night with the opposite sex...and I will make sure that it is in my custody agreement...is there something like that where you are???

of course, this is confusing to the kids and not in their best interest...

POWS KNOWS about the overnight thing...I'm checking into where there is anything that states that they can not be around them during the day...

You did great handling this...Good job! i hope you know HOW AMAZING YOU ARE!!!

Keep smiling! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And take care!

Hi, Rin

Nope. Nothing to be done. The court "won't interfere in her personal life" so long as there is no serious risk of physical harm to the children, and there isn't.

What amazes me is that she drags the kids into this (I know it's typical, but still). She hadn't seen DS7 for three days and was going to have him for one night before not seeing him for another two days, and so what does she do to make it special 1 on 1 time? Takes him to POSOM's brother's house.

This is a big test for me, because I really feel the urge to reach out and tell her "It was supposed to be one on one time--why did you bring POSOM into it? That's not what DS7 wanted. And how is it appropriate to spend that one on one time at POSOM's brother's house? Again, that's not what DS7 wanted. He doesn't even understand why you went there and felt it important enough to tell me about it." and "If this is what putting the children first looks like, I would hate to see what you being openly selfish looks like."

I won't, of course. Especially not the second comment, but I think the first might get her attention. It would certainly be LBing, but I don't think that there's anyone else who will do it. I still won't do it.

But I'm triggered. Advice on how to let this one go is welcome.

I'm thinking I should ask the kids whether they want me to help them write the SCQ a letter about this kind of thing.

I think that this needs to come from your children, not from you.

If your DS can just write something or even draw a picture of how he feels when with POSOM, or about the break up of his family. BUT, SCQ will probably think that you goaded them into writing anything or drawing anything.

Does your son express his feelings to his mother? I'm almost sure that the intimidation factor of talking to his mom about his sadness keeps him from it. Your son confides in you, and may not want to confide in his mom. This is a tough one.

I do feel that his mother should know how he is struggling. I told PWC about DS issues. It was not dark, but our son was so very important, and his tender heart was breaking. I just couldn't keep silent.

I never talked about PWC when referencing our son, just how our son was struggling with this issue or that, no sugar coating, and wanted answers from him on how we should handle it. I never said anything like, "Due to your choicees to blah blah blahbetty blah, our son is feeling blah blah blahbetty blah." (at least not toward the end of my Plan B--much calmer and collected) I said, " DS is having problems with such and such, and I believe he needs some help. I suggest so and so, what do you think?"

After he agreed that such and such WAS a problem for DS, he generally told me to do whatever. PWC was then VERY aware of our son's issues, and began talking to him about them.

This didn't SOLVE the problem, but it got a dialogue started between DS and his dad.

I don't really know what advice to give, just what I have done. Anything needs to go through the intermediary; this will keep you dark. You will be expressing a need for your son, not for you.

Have you suggested that DS7 tell his mom what he thinks? Call her...

I think the letter is a good idea...let it be up to the kids whether they want to send it to her, burn it, tear it up, etc., keep it...

I'm starting this with my OS, but I'm getting someone else to write what he has to say...felt he would be more comfortable to open up...

I have no suggestion on how to let this go...I think that you should document how this is affecting the kids...should you need it in the future...emotional trauma...

All in all, I think that you are doing a wonderful job, being creative...I am honored to know you!

Perhaps, come to think about it, you should write your own letter, and detroy it...get everything out and on paper...then chose what you would like to do with it!

Just thinking out loud...i write sometimes too!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

How to let this "go" (as much as is truly possible) is to accept that she will do whatever nasty, thoughtless, selfish, rotten things she wants to do....and you have no control over it. You've explored whether or not you have the legal ability to do anything, and you don't. So you are stuck with what IS, not with what SHOULD be.

At the same time, take solace in the fact that you are being a great, wonderful dad.

Being a good mom is NOT a gift that you can give. It is only a gift that SCQ can give to them. ONLY her.

So...you can't do anything about it, so the choice is to rehash it, mull it over, get more and more angry....OR to just focus on being the very best DAD you can be.

Let her be a crappy mom. Nothing you could EVER do could undo her crappiness as a mom. She is the ONLY one who can decide to put her children's interests above her own. YOU continue to be a great dad, thoughtful, caring, empathic, fun. Being DAD is a wonderful gift, and YOU can give it to them.

Don't know if it helps, but it helped me.

YOU are the only one who can give them the gift of a good dad. And you are doing one heck of a job on that.

The whole thing is compounded by the fact that he doesn't really want to talk about it at all. He's inheirited the Stuffit gene from his mother and would rather act like everything is fine. It's not like he really expresses his feeling to me, either. The fact that he mentioned it and the manner in which he brought it up was a sign to me that it was of significance to him. I didn't react TOO much, but when I started asking questions (Do you know why you went there?) he didn't know the answers to, he clammed up fairly quickly.

If I had reacted like a therapist instead of like a human being, I might have gotten more info from him. I'll try to do a better job of listening next time.

We'll have a family meeting this week, and I'll see if anything comes up.

SD,

I know you know that I know that you know this but....

She is not the same person you married and will probably never be again. Have no expectations about her behavior and moral compass with the children anymore. It's easier for you. It only breeds frustration.

Wayzilla only sees DD19 briefly once every 4-5 weeks and it has been like that since around April. They only talk for a couple minutes on the phone every 2-3 days.

DD declined to go to Wayzilla's new house (known disparagingly by DD as “the Trailer”) for Labor day last week and Wayzilla has not called her since.

As unbelievable as it still is to me, they will never have the same relationship again. Wayzilla's choice.

Your WW has made her choices too.

Be the best Dad you can be (and you have been fantastic!) and make the best of the crappy hand you have been left to play. That is all you can do.

Thanks for stopping by, Chris. You're right--she's not the same person I married. She's an alien. I had a pretty good idea ahead of time that the weekend would not go (ha! get this) the way I thought it should.

More stuff to let go of. This is the way things are today. I accept that and will make the most of this beautiful day I have been given.

As I have been reminded, today is not tomorrow. This holds for Wayzilla, too, at least for DD19's relationship with her.