First, thanks everyone for your insightful responses to my previous posts. I did call MBs and found out that they do not accept my insurance (actually, I don't think they accept any insurance, but I'm not positive about that).

I'm going crazy with worry and wonder as to what is taking place during the workday. I've left my work early several times to hang out after work. So far the best I can say is that they stayed an extra 30 minutes one day, but didn't leave together or at the same time. I've watched them leave separately twice and once they pulled out of the parking lot at the same time, which I believe means they walked out together.

Has anyone ever spoke with a WS co-worker that they barely knew??? How did it go. Did their spouse find out?

I do know someone connected to the company, but he works out of a different office. Their wife cheated on them at the same office with their supervisor. He divorced her and she is now married to the OM. I was thinking he may be able to help.

I really would like to look at my wifes work email, but she never checks it from our home (I have a keylogger).

I'm going crazy wondering what is going on while she is at work.

I apologize for rambling, I'm just beside myself and can't sleep tonight.

What are you doing about your plan A strategy and identifying your boundaries?

L.

I'm in a similar position. My take on it is if you don't want to alert the WS or OP about your suspicions, then just wait. Right now they may be just taking some time after office hours to be together (or not), but as the A progresses, they will feel a need to spend more and more time together. You will be able to track them then. Lots of ways in fact. Mobile phone logs, SMSes, even when deleted can be retrieved if you know how. Credit card bills, phone records. Tape recorders in the car (which I'm going to start doing tomorrow) cause they probably feel safest talking in the car when they're sure that they are alone.

But the most important thing will probably be your instincts. Trust them. My alarm bells went off pretty early, but I always dismissed it as being paranoid, cause she was hanging out with another WOMAN! Who would've thought eh?

jj, you know they are having an affair. As long as they work together you can just assume the affair is ongoing. You don't need to spy to know this. It might be in various stages as time goes on, but it will be on-again, off-again as long as she works there. Your marriage will never recover like this.

Your biggest problem is that they work together and until she leaves that company she will never recover, your marriage will never recover and you will live in holy he11 wondering every day what she does at work.

"I'm going crazy wondering what is going on while she is at work." <----------------this is your lot in life from now on. This is how you have chosen to live, jj.

So, don't worry about what she does at work, worry that she is AT WORK with the OM every day. That is your real problem.

Dr. Harley:

"In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure."

"We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation. "

"He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists... "

I'm really desperate and would like to try and find someone who can help me with checking out my wife's work email. I have no idea where to start.

Also, I asked earlier how people approached WS's co-workers about helping. Did they/you just expose and ask for help?

I thought about contacting a co-worker that I barely know and explaining the situation and let the chips fall where they fall.

If you have proof of the affair and can manage should your wife lose her job, I would suggest meeting up with a senior manager or someone senior enough at work that could do something about BOTH of them. For many MNC's both of them losing their jobs would be the approach.

I'm in roughly the same stage. My wife has told me that they've stopped seeing each other, and that both are making attempts to move to another company. If I discover that they are still seeing each other romantically, I will just drop into the office one day and speak to their big boss. Too bad if they lose their jobs, there is a price to pay for affairs

STOP IT..... unless you want to end up in the psych ward or jail.

Concentrate on waht you can and s/b doing.


L.

Orchid, I understand what you are trying to say, but it's hard to concentrate and plan when you are unsure as to whether contact is still going on, if so whether it is romantic or incidental, etc . . .

I don't want to go all out exposure if she is truly trying to stay away from OM. If she is having any contact with the OM that is more than just incidental (running into him in the hall, sitting in a meeting on the other side of the room), I will begin exposing them to higher ups. If she is trying to stay away, I might hold off on plan b/separation until I am sure that she is trying to find other employment.

Right now I don't have any proof of contact between them. I want to make a plan that is based on facts and not hunches.

jj, you know they are having an affair. As long as they work together you can just assume the affair is ongoing. You don't need to spy to know this. It might be in various stages as time goes on, but it will be on-again, off-again as long as she works there. Your marriage will never recover like this.

Your biggest problem is that they work together and until she leaves that company she will never recover, your marriage will never recover and you will live in holy he11 wondering every day what she does at work.

"I'm going crazy wondering what is going on while she is at work." <----------------this is your lot in life from now on. This is how you have chosen to live, jj.

So, don't worry about what she does at work, worry that she is AT WORK with the OM every day. That is your real problem.

Your W will NEVER EVER withdraw from the OM as long as they work together. NEVER. Do you imagine that you can achieve recovery if you send an alcoholic into the bar every day and make him stare at a nice, cold beer?

He sits there and stares at that beer all day long and thinks of nothing else. He is OBSESSED with that beer. He doesn't WANT TO take a drink because that nasty booze got him in such trouble the last time. But as time goes on, the pain of the last drink fades away and he starts rememebering the fun times. hmmmmmm

He thinks of NOTHING ELSE but that drink. Then the INEVITABLE weak moment collides with opportunity and he grabs that beer, and another, and another.....

This is what is happening with your W at work. So, it doesn't matter WHAT they are doing at work, it matters that they are THERE. Being there is the problem. Your W cannot withdraw and is constantly reminded of her affair if she sees the OM every day.

Not only is she at very high risk of a resumption, but you will live a life of he11 wondered "is today the day?" That will be your lot in life, jj.

Don't take my word for it, take the words of a very successful, HIGHLY TRAINED, psychologist who has saved many marriages from adultery:

"In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure."

I am completely on board with the fact she needs to find other employment. She says she will. She works in a very specific field and if she is going to find employment it will happen in the spring. Because I found MBs so late after d-day, I'm concerned that some of the principles don't completely apply or would have to be modified. I've exposed some, but didn't do it properly. Now a year has passed and my wife claims the affair and relationship is over. To expose now would seem vengeful, unless I can prove that she is still in contact with the OM. Also, she has said that she plans to find another job.

So a year later and with no proof of any type of contact, is it still appropriate to expose to co-workers and her employer?

ML, I'm living this situation, so you are correct that I am living in H3!! right now. I do not plan to continue living like this indefinitely. I said that I would make a decision after the new year or sooner if I verify that she is lying to me. It would be horrible to find out that she is trying to stay away from the OM and is applying for other employment and I didn't give her the chance to prove this. I'm trying to think of not only myself, but my daughter also.

All that said, if my wife truly feels that she no longer loves me, or respects me or finds me desirable to be around. I don't see much reason to stay.


My feelings or belief is that it is not if, but only when will the relationship start back up (if it ever truly ended).

jj, if I were you, I would focus on attracting her back. I don't think there is a lot of hope here as long as she works there, but if you can drag this out until she leaves, you could work on attracting her back in the meantime. Don't leave and don't cooperate in any divorce schemes.

Your W is not SUPPOSED to love you while she is in an affair or withdrawing from an affair. Do you understand this is CLASSIC? They ALL feel this way. The answer is not to throw in the towel but to GET TO WORK.

Why does she not respect you? Are you undesirable to be around? How do you act when you are with her?

My wife claims she lost respect for me because of how I behaved after d-day (snooping, crying, yelling, confronting the OM outside of her work). I tell her that it began before all of this, around the time she began going out with co-workers, etc . . .

Her behavior mirrors her own father's. He goes out drinking and has had several affairs, while her mother stayed home with the kids. My wife thinks she wants a marriage/non-marriage. Where she can go out when she feels like it and behave like a single person, than come home and enjoy the family life when it suits her. I want to be honest and say that my wife hasn't gone out to "the bars" in over 6 months. I think that is about to change next week as she plans on going out with the office staff for a holiday outing to a bar.

My wife claims that I have always been insecure, but as I look back, I think I may have had reason. When she began going out after work, I told her that I wasn't comfortable with this type of behavior, but that I wasn't her father and that it was her decision. My concern, which would later be validated, was that she would eventually have an affair.

My wife complains that I give her dirty looks when we go out and to be honest, I do give her what could be described as a dirty look. It usually follows some kind of inappropriate comment she's made or action she has taken. (Thus "I" embarrass her, she doesn't see how what she does might embarrass me).


I am overweight, even after losing 40 lbs after d-day I am still 15 to 20 lbs overweight. I honestly don't over eat much, I just don't exercise like I used to.

jj, what if you tried something like the 180 degree plan for awhile? It is a list of behaviors that might change things around for you:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...part=5&vc=1

Your story is a lot like mine. We were both bashed as being suspicious, untrustworthy and insecure after snooping AND finding something bad.

I've exposed the affair as best I can. She actually had the gall to get pissed that she may never be able to talk to him again because of my actions. (I called him to let him know I knew who he was and what he's doing and to stop.

Secrets out, she knows I'm snooping, Have an online view of her calls and text mssgs, but I don't address anything about it and try to improve my actions.

She still shows no affection, but I need to ignore that and be strong and happy. I don't try to push it as it always end up bad. Keep doing things for her and expect and act like you don't expect anything in return yet.

If her actions show the WS attitude and you don't have 'proof', know that you are exposing yourself as vulnerable. This means you are subject to further mental and emotional abuse. Could become physical abuse if left unchecked.

Why give that kind of power to a WS? BS bashing isn't healthy for you but gives strength to the WS while your real W is withering away.

You want to form a bond with your real W? Then work on destroying the WS as a WS. Not the person, the persona.

L.

You want to form a bond with your real W? Then work on destroying the WS as a WS. Not the person, the persona.

L. [/quote]

Orchid, are you saying destroy by exposure and no confrontation?

Are there any other ways to destroy the persona?

In my case I am going to OMW home Monday. She knows of the EA but not many details as my WS told me OM lied to his wife to cover A up.

My WS still has contact at work with OM and I'm trying to figure out what to do and not do.

Like DF says it's a fine line when withdraw can't start because thee is still contact.

Last night my W told me she felt I was giving her an ultimatum about quitting her job. I've told her it's her decision but I gave her no guarantees about our future as long as she's there.

She says she doesn't want to quit and then clams up.

How do you set NC boundaries?

Orchid: Yes....and then some. There are tools you can use to defuse and destroy the A. At the very least, remove it from your life. Remember you can't control a WS.


Orchid: Yes but may not be as effective. You want to destroy the A a little or all the way?


Orchid: Ok, so form an alliance with a BS who is willing to do the right thing. Make sure you both keep proper perspective and goals.


Orchid: Whether she has contact or not you s/b doing what is good for you and your family. Call Jennifer @ MB for some phone counseling. You will have to take the EN questionnaire and read SAA 1st.


Orchid: No fine line. Bold hard line. If there is contact.... there is no family. The WS choose the OP over the family and you had better realize that and protect yourselves.


Orchid: That's WS babble. Go with the flow....she says u r giving her an ultimatum, agree. So now what's she gonna do....cry? Let her. Walk away and let her cry. You will find those are crocodile tears. U R right NOT to make deals or give guarantees to a WS.


Orchid: See?!?!? She is testing you. She doesn't want to quit.... so what's your move? You need to get where you finish your plan A improvements and your mind/heart are in sync. Then it's plan B time. Make sure your finances are in order far away from the WS. Make it safe for your children as well.



Orchid: NC for you with the WS? You can't set NC between the WS and OP, that's what your wife needs t/d. A WS will NOT implement NC.

L.