The choices people make show us their character. Character influences choices. Choices, good and bad, can change and shape the character too. It's all connected.

The "don't judge my character because of a few bad choices I made" doesn't hold up when the bad choices are repeated over and over again or when they are egregious. Can you imagine Stalin saying something like that?

Coughlin's bad choices haven't been egregious or evil. However, they've been consistent. The choices are a snap-shot of where he is right now. That's all.

Coughlin, start acting like the man you can be. Give up the messed up girl. Chalk it up to bad timing and move on. Stop dating until you're in a better place emotionally. Being depressed and dating doesn't work. I've tried it before. Repeatedly. When you do date, take care of the other person. Don't jump in bed with her. Learn to protect yourself and take care of yourself so that you aren't needy and dependent on the kindness of strangers. If you're lonely, go get a cat or a dog. If you get a cat, train it to walk on a leash. Difficult, but not impossible. Nothing will attract marriage-minded women like a pet on a walk in the park. Having a pet shows your good father material. LOL. In other words, make the kind of decisions you would want a future spouse to make. Would you want your future wife to be sleeping with a man on the first date? Probably not, so don't do it. You get the idea. You become the man you were meant to be, and Office Girl will lose her allure. Instead, you'll find women who want to date, to court. They will make you feel like a million bucks all the time, not just when they're sitting by the fire with you. And you will have the emotoinal connection to beat all emotional connections because you both will be emotionally available but with healthy boundaries.

Hi Weaver, AGG and GG. Thanks for caring enough to guide me through this. I just emailed the new girl that I wasn't ready for a serious relationship right now.

You all have some good points and I understand about that whole pursuit game and I understand that I'm responsible for not feeling or causing anybody else pain. I think I can be happy with this person and if she does decide to chase me and want to be in a relationship and treat me with respect then I will go for it. Believe me, I cannot take anymore hurt from this person and I plan on being very careful and I also plan on doing things in the meantime that make me happy that have nothing to do with her. I'm already making plans to quit one of my "other jobs" and go to the gym and hang out with girl/guy friends and not have sex with strangers.

Mlhb, you say that a leopard can't change it's spots but I guess I'll have to find that out for myself. I think that all depends on the person. I will look at her objectively and try not to fantasize about her while taking care of myself.

How does this plan sound by the way? She is a special girl and as much as I wanna to call her and put in some kind of effort to win her back especially around the holidays, I know I can't. No contact will save me. I realize it's a win-win situation. I protect myself and move on while giving her space to decide what she wants and if she misses me enough to wanna work things out then well, I guess that will be apparent. I also realize that it doesn't necessarily mean it will work. I'm not a glutting for punishment-I just don't like to give up on something that has the potential to be worthwhile.

As Belonging says, you all must have been where I am, hoping that things would change for the better and believing that they could be. Please honor that and know that whatever happens, it will be for the best. We all weren't meant to be with our ex's but we may not have realized that right away and I refuse to believe that none of you, especially this group, threw in the towel right away and didn't try their best to turn it around.

GG,
I don't think I differ from you in any of that.
Nor in your opinion about many 'cases' here. In general.
Where I differ (and the point I want to make) is - we can give advice and suggest 'solutions' but we cannot expect someone to apply it right away nor to OBEY what we say here...


Correct. And because we collectively have lived the stories ourselves, no way we can stop anyone else from going through the same. We would like, but we cannot.
And then when it's obvious we can't, we don't lose patience nor see just all negative about someone, but accept that they have to learn (what we "know") by themselves - too.

belonging, let me clarify.... i just love the emotionally immature, people using, unstable, wishy washy young 20 somethings. not ALL young 20 somethings, just those ones. and that is what we appear to be dealing with here and what i have dealt with a lot in my life, even when i was one of them!

is that better?

i do feel i can be objective here or i wouldn't be posting on this thread.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

mlhb

Hello to all. A couple thoughts that I hope you will give your opinions and thoughts on.

Pursue/Distance dynamic - it almost seems like Coughlin is doing that in this thread. When you (wisely, imo) advise him to go NC with Office Girl, especially when you list many reasons why you are advising him to do so, the more he seems to cling to the notion of a possible relationship with her. After one poster did an "upbeat/agree" post, Coughlin seemed to pull back. Has this happened in previous threads on the Office Girl issue?

The age difference between them plus crying after sexual encounters raises some serious questions for me. Has this been discussed with Coughlin before?

I can't help wondering if discussing Office Girl on threads gives Coughlin a "contact fix" that keeps his hope/fantasy of a "real relationship someday" alive. What do those of you who have followed Coughlin's threads for a while think?

I hope no one minded me butting in for a minute. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You could be correct, xLurker. We could be part of the whole dynamic and doing harm.

Belonging, I think the frustation comes from Coughlin coming here time and again, asking what we think of his plan to not contact her and wait and see. That may be a good plan. Except he doesn't follow it, has contact, comes back as askes us to interpret OG's moves, gets hurt, and goes right around in the circle again. See post above.

Coughlin, dear, I think I'd better truly bow out.

i do think xlurker has a point...

it's like being on a diet and craving something we KNOW we shouldn't have and craving it so badly (let's say icecream) that every day we are going to the ben and jerry's site and finding our favorite flavor just to look at it and read the ingredients, etc... to get our "fix"

talking about this over and over and over and over and over and over again for coughlin is keeping it alive some how that i would agree.

i think this is a good analogy coughlin. think of it like a diet. that ben and jerry's chunky monkey is NOT going to help you lose weight. but you want it and in a bad way. now, you could fill that need other ways, but you are ****** bent on chunky monkey. so eat some, sometimes just enuff to gain on only one pound, sometimes enuff to make yourself sick. either way you feel bad after because you have completely defeated your diet and have to start all over again every single time you do it. now, should you completely go without ben and jerry's (ie women)? well, that depends. you could opt to stay away for a while until you're sure you can handle it (not binge or do something stupid) or... you can opt for a low fat or fat free ben and jerry's, eat only the serving size, and not only NOT wreck your diet, but probably still be able to lose weight (get healthier). the low fat ben and jerry's would be an emotionally healthy woman who is willing to take it slow, treat you well, not mess with your head, and not sleep with you on the first date.

it is your choice.. chunky monkey which demolishes the diet every time, or low fat/fat free ben and jerrys in moderation which actually helps you lose weight and get healthier. oh, and you can't have chunky monkey in moderation because you are just not strong enuff not to binge on it and make yourself sick every time. not an option.

mlhb

i opt for low fat/fat free ben and jerrys. that way i can satisfy my sweet tooth ice cream craving without blowing my diet and bingeing on something bad for me that is not going to do me any good at all.

now i'm hungry.... and i do love ice cream. and i am dieting. where's the closest ben and jerry's? i am only about 3 hours from vermont, if i leave now i can go straight to the ben and jerry's factory! woo hoo! see ya later!

mlhb

I like your Ben & Jerry's analogy, mlhb. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The low-fat version could be a good option for you, but would it still be a good option if you added nuts, hot fudge, m&m's, and whipped cream to it (similar to Coughlin adding a sexual encounter to a first date)?

How many times of "enhancing" the low-fat version would it take for you to realize that you weren't ready to add Ben & Jerry's to your diet yet?

mhlb, if you start talking about taking a slow leisurely drive with no particular destination in mind just to see where you might end up, do you want me to advise you to put your car keys away? Or do you want me to wait until your next post after your arrival at the Ben & Jerry's factory and you ask the board for advice on how to find the flavor you want? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

no need... i already i have a flavor in gekko. and i don't use car keys for that, just plane tickets! in fact i leave next friday for a week in atlanta to be with my "flavor" (and yes he is the low fat ben and jerry's with no added toppings! so i am still getting healthy and losing weight if you follow my analogy.. ;-)

mlhb

Following your analogy, that is wonderful mlhb!

I hope that Coughlin gets it too, and then considers making changes that will lead him to a yummy-enjoyable-satisfying flavor in his life too.

I see that Coughlin has started a new thread. Can you think of a way that the board can post in support of Coughlin on everything else in his life while, at the same time, going NC (no references, no response, no nuthin') on anything to do with OG? Do you think it's even possible?

Well, we don't know anything else about Coughlin's life other than the OG, do we? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

AGG

I'm an open and I wear my heart on my sleeve. What else would you like to know?

I hadn't had any serious girlfriends until I slept with my wife right after college (on the first night) and we moved in together in her state about 6 months later and got married 4 years later then separated 5 years later. This other girl was the second most significant relationship of my life and so, I guess I don't have much experience when it comes to matters of the heart. Although, I am learning the hard way, it seems.

what were they dynamics of your marriage like coughlin? and how long have you been divorced? and how long after divorce before you started dating?

mlhb

and you didn't even comment on my ice cream analogy and i put a lot of hungry thought into that! dangit i am hurt! :-(

where's the chocolate chip cookie dough when i need it?

Hey mlhb, I did like your ice cream analogy and it actually reminds me of a line a girl used on me when I was in high school. She said I was the best thing to come along since strawberry icecream. Anyways, yes, I would equate my ex to being a rocky road flavor. I prefer cookies and cream.

Let's see, my wife was my first serious relationship ever. We were more like brother and sister. She didn't like to do a lot of active type of stuff although she did care for me a great deal--kinda like a crush. She changed though and became too motherly and shallow with her lifestyle. The casual version of her was lost somehow. I've been divorced for 2 years now and we were separated a year and half before then and I started dating a couple months after we separated mainly with women who were different and unavailable (had kids, separated from husband, lived with parents, put work before anything else). Basically these women were cold and needy. The difference with rocky road was that she was more available then the others and less in terms of her depth.