I am a lurker on this board and a few more. I have only posted on two other different boards.

I think the fact there are many online communities that promotes marriage is GOOD. Actually it is GREAT!!

There is enough smut on the web.

One caution I would pose to anyone seeking advice in these areas though is to look around. Some of the tactics to saving the marriage are 180 degrees different that other website's advice.

That is not to say that one is right and one is wrong. I think there are different approaches to different people and circumstances. MB may work for 60% of the people while James Dobson may work for 10%.

Who cares. As long as people find what works for them it really does not matter.

OK now to my point......

This board is filled with the most attacks to those with differing opinions than I have ever seen. I am not discounting MB. There are some venomous people, not all, on this board.

When I first had my maritial issues, I went to the net. I researched and researched. I posted on a board and found help. My wife and I went to our first counseling session together today!!!!! THAT'S A GOOD THING!

Bottom line. For those of you out there, and I have read your rantings and venom for a while, just realize that MB may be right for some but not all. What matters is if the both spouses want to work at the marriage.

I could give two $^ts if the rub baby oil on them and do a snake dance. If it works it works.

JM,

You are entitled to your opinion.

Welcome to MB, Jokerman. Congratulations on beginning MC with your W.

How wonderful that both of you want to work on your M!

Did you want to discuss any of your issues here?

I would agree with this view. It would be good to see more posters showing great respect for the opinions, privacy, and dignity of other posters. There are some truly supportive people here, but they often get drowned out by the noise of the more aggressive and hostile posters.

Perhaps the venom and bitterness comes from living through the difficulties of a painful marriage? Or perhaps they contribute to it.

I would love it if only those with something positive and uplifting to say would respond to posts, but there are some posters here who seem determined to slash-and-burn all opinions but their own.

Perhaps the best thing to do is to stop responding to the negative posters, until they explode from frustration? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

There are a lot of good people here, JokerMan. You just have to sift through the nasty posts to find them.

I have been here a long time. And I will say that you are also entitled to your opinion.

But I have to say that I havent read much of the venom that you speak of. If anything, you have to sift thru all of the good posters and threads in order to find the venomous ones.

I would be interested in what you consider to be venom and slash-and-burn.

I agree with MM. I don't really see all this 'venom' flowing through these boards.

But, as a few posters above said, we are all entitled to our opinions.

Welcome, Joker. Thanks for the opinion of how new posters might look at things around here. I agree that there is some vemon, and I will be the first to try to tone down some of my posts.

Lots of us have different ideas, and I think it is important to disagree respectfully, especially when a new poster is involved. Once a newbie gets to know us all, they will feel more comfortable with a bit of bickering. But I can see how it might put people off.

I've been one of the first people to complain about something like what you're describing...it's always bothered me when the posters are attacked and not the problems.

But actually I've not seen that on this board in quite some time.

Not sure what 'venom' you're seeing...

Yes Joker I see this too. I have rarely posted because I know if I say something wrong I will get clobbered. On one of my first posts I was called a troll. I was just trying to help another poster out and apparenlty what I said was "wrong" I have gone back to lurking because I know there is alot of good stuff, but will never post my story or ask for help. It is sad because the few bad apples I think can really scare people off and there seems to be alot of great people here, very homey for many.

Blessings

Shawn

firmforever - I read what happened to you, and I apologize for your welcome. Most of the folks here are great. The others, you just put on ignore.

I am not going to point out specifics. That would just lead to a pi$$ing match with other posters.

There have been some VERY good points made in this thread.

I think there may be some "venom" because of the pain people have gone through because of maritial problems.

I am also NOT bashing MB or its basics. It may work for some and not for others. The key is for those who are seeking help to find what help is best for them and their situation.

If there was one magic pill to fix all martial problems, there would only be one way to handle it and someone would be VERY VERY rich.

There are lots of ways to skin a cat. So when people who do not fit the MB mold, don't bash or abandon. Just be there. That's what most people want when the first step to fixing a marraige starts.

MB may be the perfect thing for them. That's good. But the first step to wisdom is to know you do not know everything...be open to other ideas. Those other ideas may or may not be the right one, but you will never find the truth by being boxed in or boxed at.

Wisdom is not the final destination. It is the journey. Allow those of us looking that opportunity.

Thanks beleiever for your kind words:)

Hmm.....ok. I'll stick my toe in this one..hope I don't lose it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I've been on this board for a year. This particular argument/discussion/opinion/whatever pops up on a fairly regular basis.

It's a public forum - anyone can post and say what they want. If it's over the top, the mods will handle it.

Are there personal attacks or venom on this board? I guess that really depends on your point of view. I think the important things to bear in mind are:

1. Most, if not all, of the people on this board, especially GQII, are very passionate about marriages.

2. Most, if not all, of the people on this board have suffered from the devestation of infidelity - either as the BS, the WS, or in some cases both.

3. A good portion of the people on this board have successfully recovered their marriages, using MB principles. I would venture to guess that almost everyone on these boards has experienced good personal growth as well using MB principles, even if their marriage was not recovered.

4. The people on this forum are not professional marriage counselors. They speak from experience, based on what they themselves know works and what they've seen work in other situations.

How do these 4 points relate? Simple, actually. You have a forum established by a respected leader in saving marriages from affairs that is populated by people who believe strongly in the sanctity of marriage, have personal, painful experiences dealing with the devestation of affairs, know the hard, hard, long work of building an affair-proof marriage and have no other desire than [color:"red"]to help others in similar situations recover their marriages and go forward in life stronger, healthier and happier[/color].

I too once felt like you did. I had people who appeared to be attacking me, attacking my wife, and telling me I had to do all sorts of things that just did not make sense to me. They were counter-intuitive.

What I couldn't see at the time is that it wasn't personal. The experienced people here knew the path that I was determined to go down, and were (quite possibly literally) pulling their hair out and banging their heads on the their desks because I wouldn't listen. When you intervene in a crisis, political correctness or being nice are secondary considerations to stabilizing the situation. The only thing the posters here wanted was to give me and my wife the best tools and opportunity to recover our marriage.

So, is there venom and personal attacks? Sure. I won't deny that. But I also believe that you're confusing a lot of heartfelt, worded advice as venom or a personal attack. And that's sad, because it means you'll miss a lot of valuable advice, support and comfort.

MB doesn't work for everybody (i.e., not everybody will follow the principles). If it doesn't work for you, or you don't like the style of this board, that's your opinion and I will respect your right to have it.

By characterizing the board as full of venom and personal attacks, based on your perceptions, you run the risk of throwing out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak.

I too will admit there is a lot of collective wisdom here. That is why I still lurk. I am not taking shots at the majority. However there seems to be a "loud" enough minority to make it an issue...at least with me.

JM,

While what you say may be true...not sure how this thread would help a new poster understand that. If they are here, they are looking for help. They arent looking somewhere else...which they can readily do (and probably have!!).

This is the Marriage Builders website. Which means, obviously, that what is promoted here is what Dr. Harley has found over hsi years of counseling and research. Others like Dr. Dobson (and guess what? Dobson's philosophy almost exactly dovetails with Harleys!!!) have their own sites and promote their own approach.

I think each person coming here understands that! If I wanted to promote another philosophy, I wouldnt do that here. I would do it where people that wanted that approach were going to.

So, without going into why one philosophy is better than another...I think your post and thread dont add much help to a new poster, except to confuse them. They are lost...and looking for help. The last thing they need is more confusion.

Now, on the issue of venom...sure, there are the ISOLATED instances where there have been personal attacks or whatever. But it is the exception, not the rule.

Some people believe that harsh talk and hard hitting advice is venom. If that is so...then I and many other veterans here are guilty as charged! But it is because we have learned that the FOG and other issues many times require tough talk. Many people dont need a pat on the back...they need a kick in the pants. Both BSs and WSs.

I thank God for the butt kickings I got here!!

Anyway...that is my two cents.

Hello all,

I'm new here but have also been lurking for some time! I think it's important to note that several people have stated that they either felt attacked or feared the "venom" of other posters.

Everyone's level of comfort with aggressive posters is different, but it would seem to be a good practice to save the more aggressive posts for those who seem to respond well to them. Otherwise, this will become a forum only for the boldest or most aggressive.

Why are there so many message boards here? How do I decide which one to post on? I have read the rest of the site, as well as Dr. Harley's literature so I understand the concepts of each topic. Do I just choose the topic that most closely matches my question?

Great post, HealingBird!

I guess I have just seen many people on this board post then get "run off" to never post again.

You cannot assume they are looking elsewhere. This maybe there first and only attempt at trying to find the answers.

The butt kicking they get may be exactly what they need. For others it is not. I just get the feeling that the butt kicking comes pretty quick to newbies. Wouldn't it be better to build a "cyber-trust" with some one before you lay down the 2x4....just a thought.

Also I do not think it is confusing at all. My main point in posting is that the fact people are here is a GOOD thing. However they may not be at the point to 100% to buy in to the MB philosophy or any other philosophy for that matter. However the fact they are searching is good. Quick bashing may stop that journey.

My .02 is just to embrace. There is a time to bash and there is a time to love. My opinion is that you will chase more people off my bashing right off the bat and if they disagree, that's cool too. It is better for people to keep searching for what path they need to take to fix their marriage than to bash them right off.

Sam,

Most of the posters post to this board...so start your own thread and let us know what's up!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

On the issue of new posters, I think Healing Bird said it well. We dont jump on new posters. But we do know what works. And when, for instance, a WS is trying to blow fog in here "well, you dont understand...my husband worked all of the time so I looked for affection elsewhere...", we arent going to just let them sit in the falsehood!!

We will begin to show them that their adultery is entirely their fault and their responsibility. No sugar coating. No hugs. Hugs to a WS is nothing more than an enabling device!!

Same thing goes for BSs. Many times, they so live in fear because of the affair, that they wont do what they need to in order to stop it. So, all the niceties in the world wont get them doing what they need to do. Thus, we give them a little "shove" so to speak!!

Personal attacks do not belong here...that is true. But coddling WSs and getting into a woe-is-me-fest with BSs isnt helpful and is a waste of time for all involved!!

Again, I hope to see you start your own thread!!

****Great post, HealingBird!

Well that kind of proves my point...though I agree HB made some good points.

There seems to be a group think here. The devil is in the details. We all want the same end result. It's just how to get there. There are many paths.

- HB

I did not mean to say everyone on this board is venomous. I thought I was clear on that. If not I appologize.

I think there are MANY well intending people here. But I, and obviously others from the replies to this thread, feel there is some bitterness and anger lashed out at posters here. I just do not see where that is productive.

Again, I have nothing against the MB philosophy. If it has brought marriages together I am all for it. I have gleaned some wisdom from this board and from MB. But if I had posted on this board a year ago and got the same response others have, I never would have posted again.

My heart goes out to the individual who is in the midst of marital troubles. They do not know where to turn or where to find hope and direction. I'm not sure a 2x4 on their first post is the way to "snap them out of it".

That's not to say a 2x4 is not needed. I have dealt my own on another board, but in this cyberworld why do it in response to a first post with someone yearning for help?

Build some trust first and find out more about the situation.

The people who DO need a 2x4 will not be receptive to it on their first post. IMHO.


****But coddling WSs and getting into a woe-is-me-fest with BSs isnt helpful and is a waste of time for all involved!!

I would agree with that too. But would it be better for them to keep posting and developing a trust with others or never post again???