I posted a lengthy thread in another column.
I would like to ask though.
What does porn have to be such a large issue when sex drives are incompatible?
I don't love any woman in "porn" , I don't even know them.
I love my wife. Perhaps I am too attracted to her.
Anyway can't it be mutually respected that it is simply me getting off where I can when I cannot with her?

When you compare your Dear Wife's body to those of the fake women in porn, you're giving yourself fantasy expectations. You are ruining your sex drive with a REAL woman because you can't pull yourself out of the fantasy long enough to realize that true sexual satisfaction is more in the giving. NO woman wants to compete with a fantasy (perfect) woman. Accept your wife with all her flaws and imperfections and worship her faithfulness to you.

IMHO
An analogy can be made between porn and marijuana. Use of porn will lead to further more deviant indescretions, such as marijuana tends to lead one to use of "harder" drugs.

Facing the real issue of SF with your wife is the solution to your problem.

An analogy can be made about a link between catholic priests
and their vows of celibacy and sexual abuse of young boys too.
Does that mean that every priest that becomes celibate is going to become a deviant and molest young boys?
Nahh I don't buy the "introduction theory" with porn.
It has never lead me to desire anything that my wife and I
have not already came to an understanding about being unacceptable. And I really don't have any urges to do any sexual acts with anyone other than my wife.
As far as SF goes. If she and I were facing it , I would not be partaking in this activity.
I do hope that my wife and I can come to terms with our varying libidos.
Also the question was really never answered.
I just kind of feel real dirty now for having more of a libido than my wife. 8(

I do accept my wife for all her flaws and miraculous beauties. And my sex drive sure is not ruined as of yet.
I still fulfill her needs,and have no problem coming back for seconds. thats part of my trouble. Maybe I could be described as hypersexual.
Although my question was really, " Why can't it be more accepted and not be a question of loving her?"
It kind of feels like I am being told " If you loved her , you would not do that."
Isn't that the same as me saying something to the effect of
" If you loved me , you would do that more often?"
And I certainly do not agree with the above statement I used as an example. I will not guilt trip her or emotionally blackmail her like that. She is way too worth it too me for me to allow myself to be quite that much of an [censored].
Although, I am hearing a general point here. And I really am taking it to heart.
The point being , if it hurts her emotionally, then it is a no brainer . I do love her , and am going to come up with a better way to cope with my libido than disregarding her feelings.
If you have any ideas about either toning down a libido, or coping with EN's and libido, your ideas are really desired.
It is crazy to live with this much sex drive all the time.
I am not playing victim to a sex drive neither.I just could use some ideas. Thanks

Gandolf,

Dr. Harley suggests more than one way to deal with this problem. He runs into couples dealing with it all the time. One thing he suggests is doing it as often as the one with the higher drive in a way that is pleasant to the one with the lower drive. Read changing willingness to desire on the main board too.

Something you might like to try is an anti-depressant that kills your drive just long enough to experience what your wife is going through. You just might be suprised at how little you care for sex without all that testosterone running through your veins. You might be able to understand things a little better from her point of view. Lots of times that by itself can change your whole attitude. You never know what a person that lost their arm has to go through to make things work in life until you lose your own arm.
Sounds like you do care for your wife, and yes porn is wrong. If you believe in God and the Bible then you can find out about it there. The Bible will never steer you wrong. It has proven itself over and over - and continues to to this day. Not many people look to it for guidelines anymore, but every time I followed it I "passed the test" so to speak; and every time I ignored it I failed and fell flat on my face, getting up bloody.
Your porn will definetely turn your wife off. She will start to feel inadequate and have less and less of a drive.

I remember one morning about 4 mos ago when I woke up horney. As soon as I remembered the porn sites in David's "favorites" my drive DIED COMPLETELY. I had no desire to be with a man that couldn't put that out of his life all together and focus on me and our whole relationship. Maybe if you paid a little more attention to her (not saying you don't give her any, but sometimes is encourages women) that is not related to sex, she might decide she wanted more sex from you. It da**ned sure worked on me. The more attention he paid to me directly, the hornier I got. And sure didn't complain when I jumped his bones while we were watching a movie. He just put it on pause, and when we got through we finished watching it. And he sure didn't complain when i jumped him after we got out of the shower and he gave me a t-shirt that matched his. We were supposed to go get his harley where we'd left it the night before - it was 10 am. We ended up going at it so much that we fell asleep and woke back up about 4pm to go get the bike.
But when I'm not getting what I need to feel close and connected to him - I don't have a drive at all. don't ask me why, that's jsut the way most women's brains work.

Who would have ever thought that something as simple as his giving me a t-shirt that matched his would do that to me. Or the day we spent out doing things together with him paying attention to the things I like and then coming home and cuddling up on the couch would make me do what I did.
I wouldn't have been able to explain it, but it worked!!

Good Luck and definetely get rid of anything that has to do with another woman. All it will do is breed insecurity, and resentment in the long run.

Remember what they told Mikey on the old Life cereal commercials. Yea, lets get Mikey. yea he won't eat it, he hates everyhting. Next thing you know they're hollering, hey Mikey, he likes it!!!

Just a note to help you get inside the brains of a lot of us women out there in this crazy world.

Becki

to many the women in porn represent the epitome of sexual physical beauty in women...if the table were turned and your wife consistently masterbated to pictures and stories of men who earned more than you and could provide her with the epitome of luxurios lifestyle would it bother you???If your wife lusted after hard bodied barely men (aged 18-29) with huge penises would it bother you...Many men say no to that because they have absolutely no fear of it happening...however I think th reality would be different..Why do you need porn to masterbate...Can you not honour you commitment and faithfulness to your wife without the naked images of other women?????FDoes the toatl lack of honour you show to her givin of herself to you not bother you...after all for many women to share our bodies which are so harshly judged and objectified with another human is a true gift of love and sharing yet some men have no issues with cheapening this by simply going at taking a peek at another (some young thing happy to share it round) without a thought of how it cheapens what we feel we are sharing....in other words , for some women, it really makes us feel that you dont VALUE the gift of our nakedness and sexuality...

Well said, LMJS.

Also, as far as the high sex drive. I also have had a high sex drive (now it's more driven by how my H interacts with me). For several years before I met my H, I was celebate...my sex drive was very high! To manage it in a healthy way, I worked out several times a day and joined a volleyball team...sometimes, just the physical exertion will take the edge off.

wow...this soooo sums up how I feel the mere thought that he gets off onh porn completely kills any desire in me...

it sends me several messages
- he doesnt see the experience of me sharing MY naked body as special (after all he can get it anywhere...on a computer,in a mag etc.)
- it doesnt matter to him in the least that it is ME who gives him secxual pleasure (after all ANY naked female will do to get him off)
- he seeks out images of flawless 20-30 yr olds and probably would choose for me to have that body if given a magic wand (even though some say it shouldnt , it greatly undermines my sexual confidence (an integral part of a womans sex drive)....he doesnt hold 40yr old women with the scars of a several children as his ideal...he holds what I was as the ideal...NOT WHO I AM....
these are just a few of the reasons why for me anyway a man who uses porn is the biggest turn off sexually.....When a meet a fella who doesnt use porn (and yes they are out there) I usually notice a deep sense of sexuality that is holistic (ie the whole woman and he is part of the sexual experience) when I meet a porn users I see a fragmented sense of women as body parts and often a fragmentred sense of himself....I have had several partners prior to marriage and this is just my experience....I dont know maybe some other women feel the same maybe they dont...Im guessing a LOT do...

I used to be insanely jealous of my husband's fondness for porn. And to boot, I was in my 3rd trimester of my first pregnancy (age 20). I was big as a beached whale (and feeling about as sexy as one, too) when I "found" a porn mag laying around the house. He didn't conceal it, but just flipped it over in case we had guests or something. I freaked OUT. How could he do this to me?? Couldn't he see that I couldn't possibly compete with these airbrushed Barbie dolls at the BEST of times?? I was totally crushed. I confronted him tearfully and hysterically, telling him that when I saw these women, what I "knew" he wanted but that I just could never be for him, I felt second-best. I went for a walk, and when I came back he had left the house. The remnants of the magazine in the woodstove. I thought this meant he had repented and changed his ways, but in the months to come, another magazine or two bobbed to the surface. He never rubbed my nose in it or anything, and he was almost meek about it, but he did not get rid or them the way he did the others. No, the porn was part of the package.

Now he sounds just hideous, but he's not. Our first years were a lot like swiss cheese, full of holes left by lack of emotional intimacy and communication. Sex still happened on a regular basis, though, and it was good.

Anyway, fast forward about a decade. We had a relationship crisis and subsequent breakthrough. Wonder of wonders, we actually started talking to one another like real people and a lot of things got figured out. Among them was the porn issue. I won't get into the year's worth of details about how we healed our relationship, but I will say that I found out that he loved me very much, and that the "other women" I had so built up in my own mind were nothing but pretty paper to him. It took me a long time to trust him when he told me that they were just fun to think about. He never compare me to them...rather, it was the other way around he said. Or there was no comparison. Like apples to oranges. They had nothing to offer him besides a pretty shell. Lots of women are pretty (including me he said). But none of them were me.

Nowadays I have no jealousy. None. If there is ever a flicker of it, it is an oddity. I just know his heart, and these women mean nothing to him. He has proven this beyond doubt to me.

People keep saying, "Get rid of the porn! Take it away! Make it inaccessible!" but that makes no sense. The porn isn't the problem; It's people that create the problems for themselves by allowing them to take root in the first place. A child picks up a rock and throws it at another child. What are you going to do? Take away all the rocks? Or teach the child?

I think you have to take away the rocks and then teach the child......so, he doesn't have the impulse to throw rocks everytime he sees one....know what i mean?

i agree that the porn is not the root of the problem.
sometimes an adult needs to learn how to manage his/her emotions...and sex drive.

i was just reading a post about a man whose wife is deep into an EA w/ a man she works with...i think there are a lot of similarities between EA's and pornography...and wifes look at porn or strip clubs, etc. (anything that equals H's fantasy life w/ other women) similarly to how a man would view his wife's EA w/ any man she fantasizes meeting her top emotional needs (sex, PA, FA,conversation,admiration etc.)

No contact is needed for an EA. (and your porn is basically an EA) Put that time and energy you spend fantasiziing about Other People back into your marriage.

Be honest with yourself....are you just killing time when you at at porn and masturbate.... are you looking for a quick physical release.... or are you getting some emotional charge out of fantasizing that you are wanted....desired....by different women??

I want to say that the porn is no big deal...i really do.
i know when i have looked at it (both by accident and on purpose)it fueled desire....lust....got me thinking about sex.
it was up to me what i decided to do w/ that feeling.

Ask her to watch. I know it seems odd, but her seeing you turned on, may be a stimulation for her. I hated it when my H would 'secretly' watch porn to get off. I thought he was a pervert. But reality is all men do it. Keep in mind I am only one woman out of millions, but I would think being open about it is the ONLY way...the honest way. If she is completely set against watching with you, then you best quit, but I'd first invite her to join you..then it may not seem so secretive.

I have been trying to come up with an example of something that would hurt my husband the way his pornography use hurts me and I think this is the great example. This would be the emotional equal for my husband as opposed to how non-chelant he sees viewing other naked bodies.

For me, what really hurts is the fantasy. I'm pregnant with our fifth and their perfect bodies do bother me some, but not nearly as much as knowing there's a whole fantasy with them involved. It's that in these fantasies these women are perfect, they may say the perfect things, move the perfect way, etc. Meanwhile, I don't have a clue what perfect would be to even attempt them and he's certainly not sharing what perfect is for him. I've asked. This could be an issue for me if it was just masterbating I suppose, but it's the in-my-face fact that it's specifically these other women he's viewing that's doing it for him.

I completely understand the ease of masterbating over the ordeal of actual sex, especially around my big baby belly with 4 other small children in the house...but this is only adding to our difficulty because it makes arousal darn near impossible for me.

Why cant guys understand that porn takes away from there intimacy with the W? For a long time H and I have fought over this issue. Even when we were dating. I would tear or throw magazines away all the time. I would delete pictures on his computer. Till I had it. I had gone thru 3 pregnancys and was about to hit number 4. I am not a huge person. I did things around the house and in the bedroom. So why was he looking and doing what he was doing with porn? I was romantic. I finally had it between child #3 and #4 and had him pick one... I stopped the things with H I just stopped being romantic and focused more on the kids then in the bedroom. It took him atleast 2 yrs to realize that I stopped things and he missed it. One day he finally approached me and told me he has a problem. That was 5 months ago. Since then hes been clean except one time regressing. Now hes waiting for the romance to return. And one day it will. Things cant change over night. Now as for me and H if we were to watch it together. I am not ready to. I dont know if I would ever be...

Nia is right, I used to be turned on when H and I watched it all but now...Because of the over use on his end it doesnt do anything for me now. And to just be honest with yourself. Some dont see a problem till they are in way to deep like a drug user or alcholic.

that's bullsh*%! While a person can be addicted to pornography saying that it will definitely lead to worse things is preposterous.

what's bllsh*t? where did that come from?

who said it will definitely lead to worse things? i missed that.
and what is "worse things" anyway?
it definately CAN and often does cause probelms withing the relationship....but, not always.

Wow, I don't really agree with the drug analogy, and yet your second statement hits the nail squarely on the head.


This is an accurate statement too.

I struggle with porn. That's not an easy thing for me to say, but it's true, and my wife can not stand porn. In the past I rationalized looking at porn because I wasn't satisfied with the frequency of SF in my marriage. In some respects I was pretty straight laced when my wife and I began dating. I wasn't a virgin but I didn't have a whole lot of sexual experience. My wife was more experienced than I in that regard (she's about 5 years older than me and had been married once before). I didn't have a problem with her past, I'd sown a few wild oats too, but I ended up feeling cheated in that it seemed to me that when we got married she settled down in regard to SF. I wanted to have sex all the time and I wanted to be a bit more adventurous about it (nothing too racey, but more than just the "same old spaghetti" every time). While I think I had somewhat of a valid point in that my wife was happy to leave her past behind her when we got married and did settle down sexually, what was really going on was a fundamental problem in our marriage. It wasn't until years later that I came across Marriage Builders and began to understand the true underlying dynamic of a successful marriage.

Knowing all this though I still face this struggle with porn. Guys are very visually oriented when it comes to sex. We like to look. To be honest I find my wife very attractive and my interest in porn doesn't center around some ideal of beauty. She doesn't believe that, but it is true. Most guys aren't visually stimulated looking at overweight or what some might term unattractive women, so that does fly in the face of protests regarding porn as idealized beauty, but I think most men are attracted to the very idea of the sex act itself, which to be honest doesn't lend itself well to the appreciation of beauty. I say this only to explain a lot of what is going on with porn from the male perspective. I certainly don't see it as justification for porn. In fact I agree with Dr. Harley's position that anything one does that does not meet their spouse's primary needs will always be detrimental to the relationship (and ultimately in getting one's own needs met).

I understand the appeal of viewing the the sex act.
and I
do believe that most mens interest in porn does not revolve around some ideal beauty....but i do think it revolves around someone else...someone new and different...seeing someone new and different naked....fantasizing about having sex etc. w/ someone new and different.
I think that is what bother most women........and the fact that she MIGHT be his ideal beauty just makes it more bothersome.....painful even.