ok, Im getting closer to exposure to owh... had to go through some stuff in my head as to whether it will be for
vindication or to save my M..decided it will be to save my M and maybe a little vindication/revenge as a side dish..
not sure what will happen, but still feel I need to do it.
hope it goes well.

WH still is denying I guess I need to know what to do about that... If I get more proof of A from owh, do I wait a little while longer then do an ultimatum kind of thing?

What is the next step? I think Im seeing minute cracks in wh, and little points of H peek out time to time...

Of course if/when owh gets involved I imagine it aint gonna be pretty!

I could really use some feedback at this point, starting to think Im crazy again... well, more than usual anyway...

starting to get confused about what is supposed to happen after exposure...especially if wh still contends there is not and never was an A.... sigh~~~~~~

Thanks all I appreciate any/all help!!!!!! SAS

Gather whatever proof you have and tell OWH. He likely has had suspicions of his own. If not he will keep a closer eye on OW. Your WH will be pissed, but it will die down after a week or two, and it is essential for killing the A. Don't wait any longer.

I will expose to owh asap, right now Im still at the "a friend of a friend is trying to get his contact info for me stage".... hopefully will know more tomorrow.

Sas, Since you have not filed for D [yet] your motives are to save your marriage.

I was in same position after serving my H w/D papers following his years-long EA. A wise poster here (Thorned Rose) confronted me with how since I was already D'ing, it would be a vengeance motivated exposure, not an exposure intended to save the marriage.

Searching my heart, I realized it was too late to recover our M. And I did not expose at that time.

You on the other hand are not at the point of ending the marriage. Whether you feel some satisfaction that he and his OW will be uncomfortable with the exposure your true motive is saving your marriage. I support you in this.

Thx Bellevue, at present, I am also hampered by an ice storm, but I do think I need/will expose to owh asap.
Hopefully I can do that today while wh is at work.

I did get a crumb yesterday though...wh actually touched me on my back!!! yipeeee!!!!!!

it's pathetic that I am happy about such a meager thing like that, but hey, its the first time since september he has touched me at all, progress is progress!

I do think he is in his mind making some changes...he has been snooping through my emails and reading some of the infidelity things/articles I planted "mailed" to myself.

he has been sticking very close to home, and I dont think he has been making any contact this past week...at least not when he is around here, I dont/wont ever trust anything about his whereabouts again so there are lots of grains of salt on everything...

I just wish he would go ahead and admit everything out loud so we can begin to begin to start working on this mess he made.

Oh well, all in God's timing. God is a mighty big boy,and HE knows what is really going on, and HE knows what is going to happen...my job is to trust HIM. (it's a hard job sometimes too isnt it)

Thanks all, SAS.

Sas, How I remember waiting for those crumbs of affection, like him touching my back, waiting for them to fall from his table. And at the same time, remembering his embracing the OW when we visited with them, and he was saying goodbye. Seems like another lifetime now.

He acted like being warm to me was cheating on HER.

He also did all the lies like "I never wanted to get married to you but I didn't want to hurt your feelings so I went ahead with it." and "You never loved me." It's fog talk.

Hoping the ice storm finishes so that you can do the exposure. From stories on here, it really kills the affair when full scale instant exposure hits the betrayers.

The sooner you can do this, the better. The longer you stay with a betrayer, the more it eats into your soul. I lost admiration for my H, but first I lost trust in him. It's a cancer.

I used to believe i was really special because such a good man loved me. I tried to be worthy of him. My self worth plummeted as I learned what a good liar he was about his own feelings. Now I don't go to his office. Haven't for years, actually. I am ashamed of his affair. I wonder whether his staff knows and whether they think I am pitiful compared to the OW. Whether they think I'm just stupid not to have known.

Take care of this as soon as you can.

Bell, I have had another set-back on finding owh address,
I did find out which shift he works on, and general vicinity where he lives- (apartment complex), but I dont know what he drives.... it's all in a town 40 miles away, and I have a ds4 to take care of too. I think the exposure I have done so far has really put a kink in wh's A action and he has started to show sings of fog lifting time to time......but I also know it doesnt take much breeze to start a fire from an ash either.... So for this week I have again resolved to let God take care of it, if HE wants me to know I will find out. I am still making plans though.
will contact private I. and find out how much it would cost for him to track down owh.... Im hoping he has access to some kind of computer that civillians dont and it wont cost an arm and a leg..I cant afford it!

Bell, we all struggle with the ol' self esteem thing it seems... I have been through enough trauma in my life to know that for the most part, MY worth isnt tied to what some damm man thinks of me. At this point Im trying to think more about how God thinks of me instead. After all HE'S the one that saves my soul and gives me hope through eternity.... Incidentally, HE loved/loves me enough to die for me too!

To be honest, self esteem is like feelings, transient and fleeting. One moment Im fine with myself, next I am NOT.
I do feel that I am within "normal" range though...lol.

Bell, you are special because of the things that make you you! NOT because you were married to somebody.... His affair was His fault NOT yours!!! hold your head up and let folks know about it... think of a reason to go to his office and share the info ... I felt so good after telling people about my wh's A!!! It was so freeing!!!

I was ashamed at first too... but the more people I told the better I felt! It's not my fault!! (sure I had something to do with downslide), but the A was not and never will be my fault!!!!!) Same with you... of course I am going on the speculation that you didnt actually hold a gun to your wh's head and demand he have a disgusting, degrading,immoral affair with some evil low life tart .... (just a guess on my part mind you ;o).

Today I am having a good day...so far... I will just try to enjoy it for what it is and set my mind for the next battle.
(hopefully). Today Im getting used to the rollercoaster some..... I know that tomorrow I may toss my lunch though!

Thanks for your replies Bell!!! SAS.

ok finally getting more of a glimpse as to what Im up against... seems wh and hobag are EMing in code..encryption... anyone know how to decode that crap?
I was digging around in temp files and found encryption stuff... I AM CLUELESS about encryption... apparently neanderthal ho is a savant of some kind, because I know that wh wouldnt have come up with this on his own....sigh...
I will post this and also a new one for puter help. thx SAS.

had a little more exposure "talk" yesterday... told him I knew about the phone trick, how he calls her number then hangs up so she knows it's safe to call here when Im gone so it wont show up on phone bill etc... then I told him about Them writing to each other in encryption etc... he just laughed and said "She must be some kind of evil genious"... I said yeah apparently. Then showed him the proof of the encryption in the puter... he of course denied and lied as per the wh script.... I remind him about him lying about the fact he had her phone numbers programmed into his phone twice... he started to get stupid with the denial excuses so I told him that yeah the first one wasnt in service any more, because ow cant pay her bills, and that the bills arent even in her name right now but in her BIL's name...wh said how so you know? I told him I looked it up...blah blah blah... also pointed out to wh that ow and her clan have a long history of non-bill paying, and that most of their billing history has been in their childrens names or other family members etc... highlighted the fact that the neanderthal's have moved at least 6 times in the past 3 yrs etc.... This got him to shut down completely....except he did want details of my phone conversation with ow.... I told him that Im sure he already got her version so why ask me...
He genuinely seemed interested in knowing what was said..
(of course he still denied that it was ow's number in his phone in the first place and he didnt know how it got there, especially under "walmart"..lol)

I told him about convo with ow, and how she denied it was her , wrong number etc... this seemed to depress him more.

I told wh about the proof I had of him having SF 2+months ago....
and he of course turned that back around to being my fault as per script too..... but still not admitting to anything!

Wh went into shutdown mode, so I just kept on being plan Aish and went about business as usual.... I find with him it's better to dump and drive ... come back later and dump more. Small doses sink in better.

I still havent caught them red handed so to speak... cant catch him with the web spy thing or the digi recorder...getting frustrating... still relying on the power of the bluff, apparently there is just enough truth stirred in to make it worrisome for him.

Still working on finding owh's address... if I dont find it by the end of next week, I guess I will hire PI...

right now I think the threat of me telling ow'sH is enough to keep them appart physically anyway. That is a step in the right direction at least.
WH has been keeping very close to home past 3 or 4 weeks...
but I still think there is the phone, and email contact going on.... just cant prove it darnit!
SAS.

The sooner you expose to the OW's husband, the better. You are wasting time trying to "prove" things to WH. He will continue to deny and lie.

I was obsessed like you, and even when I got the hotel bills, WH continued lying. It is better to just move on with exposure.

Thanks B...I KNOW I KNOW... (about the exposure thing)....
just keep hitting brick walls right now...sigh~~~~~~~~

I wont/dont post when wh is around, dont want him coming here and getting wiser, yadda yaddda yadda...

so will only be posting when and if he is at work or with hobag, pretending to be at work. I tried to download second keylogger, first one wouldnt work, and the second had a virus in it...so same ol same ol... kind of a down day...

It does make me feel a little better knowing that wh is now checking on me to see if Im checking on him...at least that gives him something else to do...

I would go look for owh today, but I cant afford to waste the gasoline. Will try again next weekend, with the help of my galant spy granny girl friend.

I have found that there are people willing to do what they can in this kind of situation... even the guy at radio shack was extremely helpful, to the point of giving me a discount! He has been in same sitch... also a police officer had similar problem with his xww.... unfortunately
their help was limited, but really appreciated.

It's like we are all in some crappy club isnt it?
It's a club with the worst God forsaken iniation, but the member's are loyal to each other, and willing to help...
I think the club needs a name...how bout...
the SSCU... Society for the Severly Crapped Upon?
any other suggestions? ;o)
SAS.

MAJOR RANT!! found the credit card bill he had hidden ...yep seems he sent/gave hobag and her family alot of christmas gifts this year... way more than he spent on his own family!!!!!!!!! Im going to call cc company and ask for itemized bill and have it sent to friends house...
Im so angry I cant even see straight.

I did take the card out of his wallet and destroyed it.
next step is to either close account or attempt to get paperwork to have my name taken off of it.

will be taking few sellable assets to my dads later today.
just in case I need to sell them for cash.

Today is going to be spent looking for ow's H all day if nesscessary... Im going to start by calling everyone in the phone book with his same last name, hopefully one of them is related. It's a bummer, but an bs has gotta do what a bs has gotta do...

Sas, what part of the country do you live in? (I live in So.Cal.)

And, I can SO relate to anger about the WS being generous with the OP's family. Mine took the form of helping her kids to re-write their essays and term papers. [As if their own college educated parents had too much to do to help their own spawn.] EEERRRRGGGGH. I won't go into all the details of the other ways he stole time from our marriage, just know that I understand.

I finally got ahold of OW'sH!!! went through the phone book, started calling everyone listed with same last name..his is a huge family! they tried to help but they didnt know any current info either... so drove past wh&ow's work place to see if she was parked near wh...her van was gone so went out to her house to see if it was there, thinking maybe her H was driving it...then went to look in old listing of previous neighborhood...

OW drove past me while I was nearing her house! LOL.
drove to her old neighborhood, and saw a kid standing in his yard, asked if he knew where OWH lived, and the kid pointed me right to it!!!!

OWH was very gracious, I think he was glad I tried to keep conversation away from his kids. We had a good conversation, as far as I know. I told him of my intentions of staying married, and a brief rundown on A's in general, how they thrive in secret etc... explained to him that exposure was the major key in breaking up an A...
etc...
I told OWH that I hoped he and OW would eventually be able to reconcile as well, and that both adulterers needed some major counceling before we could resonably expect any changes in them...
Discussed the fact that at least one of them is going to have to quit their job for this to work...
He was understandably not interested in being with his wife at present, but I told him that It was possible to have a marriage that was better than ever etc...
I told him about this site, so now I feel kinda bad about refering to him as a big dumb neanderthal... he seems like he has matured alot since the last time I saw him 7-8 yrs ago... hope so.

OWH told me that if he saw them being flagrant together, he would probably in fact kick WH's a$$, I told him I didnt mind, but could he please try not to do permanent damage, and avoid them both going to jail...he said he would...

I later told him I wasnt there to stir up trouble, but If
a similar situation presented itself with his WW, I might consider taking similar action with her as well, ...OWH said he didnt mind either.

I also told OWH that a brisk and enlightening phone call might do the trick first...OWH did call later that evening!!!
I dont know what was said as I was hiding in the bathroom praying at the time! lol. I do know that it was a short convo though!
I have to admit, I was having one of those "farfignewton" moments that PEP posted about, enjoying the moment for awhile...;o) but realized I needed to repent of that, and went about my plan A business, being pleasant etc...

I was lucky to have pre-planned an exposure plan to meet with a girlfried for pizza..!!
WH was extremly angry with me! (again, another farfignewton moment)
WH was a little calmer by the time I got home,and even managed to grunt a couple of one syllable answers to questions I asked him.
That is where it is at present...WH went to work, I wish I was a fly on the breakroom wall today!
OWH said he would call me (I thought he meant he would do it BEFORE he contacted my WH though)...so I will call him if he doesnt call by noon today...
I hope this all doesnt backfire!!!!!! OW and her H are still married after all, just separated. I know it was hard for him to hear of A time frame as they were still together when the A started. will keep ya posted if my WH doesnt come home early today. SAS.

oh yeah,...what do you all think will happen next? or better yet...what is SUPPOSED to happen next? huffy for a few weeks and WH starts to melt? he seems to follow the script fairly close...any ideas? I am hopeful that OWH had a chat with OW's twin and her husband..that should take care of their interference too. Hopefully the BIL (wh's buddy) will drop WH like a hot rock after this...fingers crossed... SAS.

aaahhhh ccrap! I just called OWH because he didnt call me back yesterday...he said he talked to his wife and she said she isnt involved with my H... sigh... she then ran up to her sister's and bil, bil, called wh at work and warned him , so my WH called OW's H and told him that the only time he has ever been alone with his wife is when he gave her a ride home from work twice. OWH believes OW.

so now they are going to be even harder to catch!!! dangit!
I gave OWH many instances of my WH lying to me about OW and where she lived marital statice etc... he said he would keep an eye out...grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I dont know who called WH last night, but it was from same area code as all of the players.... just getting worse!!!

NOW WHAT DO I DO?????

Has your WH told you a story that's different to what he told the OWH? If not, then a "confrontation" involving the three of you might be in order. Once the OWH realises that your WH is lying, it should be easier to accept that his W, the OW, is lying as well.

I'm not surprised at his initial stance though. I think that BS' tend not to believe at first that their trusted S would actually betray them so badly.

I admire your courage. It took a lot of guts to do what you did. You are a woman warrior fighting to save your marriage. You have planted the seed in the mind of the BH. You told the truth. He may not want to believe it right now. It may hurt too much, and it may be easiest for him to allow himself to be lulled into security by their lies.

Nonethless, you did the right thing. Bravo.

You did the right thing. Don't think that OW's husband won't have the cheating thing in the back of his mind though. He will be watching her carefully.

Look for proof that you can give OW's husband.

All of OW's family is on her side, so maybe I made a mistake, probably did, but it was my WH that used them for his excuses to cheat...(Im going hunting etc...) I feel terrible that I may have the wrong person, and I applolgised
for it, but it is WH's fault I went mental.... I now think It is worse than expected, and he was using being with best friend and his wife that lives near the OW twin....

anyhoo I think its worse than I thought... I think WH has been meeting up with ho's he has met online! The one that was programmed into his phone lives 90 miles from here.
That probably explains why he has got over 13,000 miles on a new truck he has owned for 6 months..... normal mileage wouldnt do that.

I am considering calling the ho from the saved number in WH's cell phone and telling her she needs to get checked for herpes asap.... just a thought. at least maybe she will be leary of WH for awhile. I think I will mail her a note so she will know I know where she lives...(found out addy through white pages)

Confronted WH about the OW 90 miles of course WH,got mean and abusive verbally in front of ds4 and did the entire LB spectrum ....of which the gist is that basically my plan A is me being manipulative, trying to prove that I am better than him, and of course Im always right and he is always wrong etc etc...... I never trust him even when he is telling the truth ect... I calmly asked him how Im supposed to know when he is telling truth or lies.... more caca...

WH stated that his buddy had told him I wanted to stay married to WH (as per phone covo with buddies wife) but NO WAY is WH going to stay married to me... I told him that as soon as I had tax refund I would start things rolling then.

WH...screaming at this point, told me that It was HIS house and HE would move out when HE wanted to and not before then.
basically ..you cant make me stuff.

WH asked me how I thought I was going to get him outta here
I just mumbled something about a court order blah blah blah... (still being calm)

He then asked me how I was going to make house payment etc..
I dont want to tip him off to the fact that since I am on disability I will probably be getting decent spousal support as well...I want that part to be a suprise...

In his mind, probably due to really bad advice from buddy et al, he thinks and has told me that HE will sell the house and ds4 and I can go live in government housing...thus the need for me to leave those details out until its time to implement them.

I called what is supposed to be the best lawyer in the county, and he said consult fee is waived until/unless he is retained, then it will be added to the rest of the bill.
Lawyer also told me to stop by his office and get paperwork to fill out first to make things go faster. Will do that later.

I did try to prepare ds4 for the fact that daddy may be moving out, hopefully for only a little while... I dont want a permanant separation agreement , but without it I wont be able to make sure I can pay bills.... I dont think WH would pay if he wasnt forced to. especially if I have to have him removed from home...

I just dont think I can keep up with this "room mate" crap any more, he is mean,verbally and mentally abusive... I feel like Im starting to loose it. I have been doing is since September, and Plan Aing since October.

WH has only been told I knew of affair(s) since day after Christmas.... I just dont think I can do this any more.
but I know I cant do anything without his paycheck either.
He does have me over a barrel on that one.

Please Help!!!!!!!!!!!
SAS. future mental patient.