I have read SOMEWHERE about ADULT ONSET and there's stuff on DO'S and DONT'S. This is one article but not the one I was looking for...

http://groups.msn.com/NARCISSISTICPERSONALITYDISORDER/abusemanagement.msnw

This is better:

http://www.oprah.com/omagazine/200308/omag_200308_beck_d.jhtml

[color:"blue"] http://www.oprah.com/omagazine/200308/omag_200308_beck_c.jhtml [/color]

This is an excerpt from an article suggested for Self esteem, but it hits my thought right on the head...

So...if your H is a narcissist, your REAL admiration would not fulfill his quota, because you will not be falling at his feet or fawning over him. This sounds close to his behavior as of now.

Thank you. I did read these. He sounds borderline NPD and 100% Passive/Aggressive. At least I know what I am dealing with now. That was why learning about the Passive/Aggressive manipulation was so valuable - suddenly it all made sense.
Mulan

Time for a Man to step in here. LOL.

OK here is the difference IMVHO. At work I am awesome. Not to toot my own horn but I am. I am admired at work for several reasons. By both men and women. Now some of the women are attractive and there is always that stroke you get by having the opposite sex admire you. That fills an EN I guess.

Now I go home. I am a ******. Ahaaa what is there to admire about that?

Now I can't ask my FWW to admire what I did at work today. How I solved a customers problem, how I won the big account, how I diffused a volitile sitch.

The FWW might admire me for other things but those other things need to be tangible within the context of our lives together.

I am a great father, a great Provider(through the job I have that I am admired at), a great H etc. That is what I need my FWW to show me admiration for.

But if I am not admirable in those things why should she admire me.

See just because you excel at work or have a high status at your job doesn't mean your S should admire you.

Just my opinion. Maybe it is more important for him to be admired professionally then personally.

Frog:

Mulan doesn't describe her H's ADMIRATION NEED as being NORMAL.

It seems EXCESSIVE..like he requires AN ENDLESS SUPPLY..without giving anything in return...

Mulan:

Payson's book is The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists. It is an excellent overview although I'm still not sure that I agree with her conclusion about the partners of narcissists.

Nevertheless...she has a whole section on passive-aggressive narcissists. I think it will speak to you.

Tru

And about time, too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


And why not? I wish my husband would discuss his work life with me. His job is complex (international credit card deals) but for pete's sake, I used to work at the same company and I am relatively intelligent. He just says "you wouldn't understand," which I find massively insulting and condescending, or "I don't want to go over it all again at home," which I am well aware really means "I've already gotten all the female support and admiration I needed at work, so you are not needed."


Well, that's good and that's fine - but this sounds very much like the Compartmentalization my WH is so extremely fond of. In my opinion, it's just a way to further cut me out of his life and turn me into just another employee who happens to live in his house and do dishes and laundry.


Well, "professional" admiration involves plenty of fresh new women, so you are probably right.
Mulan

Thank you, Tru - I'll see if I can find it.

"Passive/Aggressive Narcissists" - *shudder* *boggle*
Mulan

I agree with your perception about the sitch but I still stand by what I say. It is not pertinent to your lives together necessarily.

I personally am not compartmentalizing when I say I don't care how great my FWW does at work. She can get all the admiration in the world for doing a great job there but if she treats me like crap and isn't a good mother no matter how great she is there I will not admire her.

Same goes for your H. I would think. And for me.

I want to be admired by my FWW and my children and my co workers but I need to do something to give them a reason.

I am not admired at work for being a good H.

I think sometimes people take the easy way out and if they are admired at work they think that means enough.

Sounds like your H right now.

Next time he says you wouldn't understand just say try me.

And if it is excessive and he needs an endless supply there is nothing wrong with that as long as he is earning it.

If I earn it I want it. LOL. If I don't earn it then I don't deserve it. I think that is the problem here he doesn't earn it and yet he wants and demands it.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />


Well, of course you wouldn't - but isn't she still your wife when she's at work? The problem I've had for many years is that no, my WH is NOT my husband when he's at work and sees no reason why this should bother me.


Which is a bloody shame, IMO. This is what happens with my WH, too, at his workplace - all of them see each other and represent themselves entirely as single entities. They rarely, if ever, talk about their spouses, unless it's to complain about them.

Why shouldn't your co-workers respect and admire you for being a good family man as well as for the way you do your job? Again - do you stop being a husband and father just because you are at work? My WH sure does and his company culture fully supports this. Many of the people there behave just this way and are vastly rewarded for it in many, many ways. They act like it's bad taste to so much as mention your spouse, much less be SEEN with them.
Mulan

Mulan,

Yes she is still my wife at work. My point though is her performance at work does not necessarilly translate into anything positive for our M.

I guess what I am saying is that in each aspect of our lives we are held to a set of criteria that would make someone admire us.

You cannot expect someone to admire you for being a good H when you aren't. I believe there are measurments that one might use to say you are or you aren't. Same with being a good parent, good employee, good coach etc.

I am going to coach my son't baseball team. If I stink and am not a good coach I doubt I will be admired because I closed a big deal at work.

I shouldn't say my co workers don't admire me for being a good father either. I should say if I suck at my job I won't be there for them to admire me. LOL.

WHat I am trying to say is if you want admiration you need to earn it. Earn it by doing things that are tangible to the people you want to admire you.

For my kids it is being a good father, for my wife it is being a good H, at work fo doing the things I need to do to get the job done.

I tell you what...I sure do have oodles of admiration for my supervisor at work, as a FAMILY man, and as an intelligent man. I have huge amounts of respect for him (even though I make fun of him anytime I get a chance to).

I see the way that he and his wife have struck a good balance between work and family; he works hard, sometimes long hours, and he goes to grad school to boot. Huge respect!!! I also have lots of respect for his wife. My supervisor kept his family business to himself for quite some time; he was a tough nut to crack, but I did it! ( Give me anybody; I'll have em singin like a canary) But once I did become an actual friend to him, he still has clear boundaries, and I RESPECT that. I ADMIRE that, and, in small ways (being a better worker, a good reflection of his leadership) I show my admiration to him. BUT, he's humble, he's earthbound...


I think the nature of the job that your WH has involves a lot of what lays on the surface, not what's within, and that way of life can suck you in...until you become part of it, it's own kind of drug.

There is a big difference between admiration and flattery IMO

Respect for me is reserved for the way people deal with the more unpleasant and onerous aspects of life. The troughs of the roller coaster if you like .

bringing this up for LilSis et al
Mulan

Hmmm...

Are the people with admiration as a top need just inherently more susceptable to affairs?

I've been following Lilsis' thread and very nearly joined in the discussion there about this topic, because I so agree with her viewpoint. Unfortunately, I'm on the verge of a divorce, so it hasn't worked for me. But, I'm wondering - what if a person's appetite for admiration seems insatiable? I find it difficult to dole out massive amounts of admiration for a person just getting done what is (should be) expected of him/her. Maybe because it's not a huge need of my own?

not necessarily.
Admiration is a top need for me.....and I never felt very susceptible to an affair.....or even FAKE admiration.

Very interesting question.



But do you differentiate between Genuine Respect-Based Admiration and FAKE Admiration? I don't think it ever occured to my WH that there's a difference - and if he did think about it, I don't believe he'd care one bit.

I do not know what to do about his need for Admiration when I can only offer him Genuine Respect-Based Admiration from one woman, but he'd rather have the tons of fake garbage the girls at work dish out simply because there's so much of it.

What can you do about that? It seems to be that there's nothing I can do to change that and that I was very, very foolish to try.
Mulan

oh yes, i differentiate between respect-based admiration and fake admiration.
i am not a sucker....just enjoy compliments and feeling like I matter, if ya know what i mean.
and i am not a opportunist either...I treat people that way I like to be treated...and it is genuine...I do not offer fake admiration.... but real admiration is easy for me to give. i can usually find something I admire about most people.

as far as your H goes, Mulan....it sounds like HIS problem to solve, not yours.

My H was once honest enough w/ me to tell me that when he first experienced getting his ego stroked and felt admired....he just couldn't get enough of it.
he was 13.

what was your H's childhood like?