okay

so i've read alot about this since 2 years ago when my H's counselor said that he beleived he saw many of these tendencies in my H (i see them as a WS but NOT as he was before the A)

and i've been looking at the materials from many of the sites mentioned on Mulan's thread

and every time that i read up on this subject, i find that I have many of the traits (we all probably have some but i think i have many)

and when i read the questions for partners of a person with NPD is find myself thinking that my H might have answered "yes" to many of them.....

and things got worse during my depression and after i found out about the A (during false recovery) it was REALLY bad (is this normal due to anger?)

i'm NOT just talking about my personality since the A or my depression though...i'm talking about ME for my whole life

even worse, my psychiatrist suspected about the time i discovered the A that bi-polar disorder might run in my family and he thinks that have it instead of just depression. turns out my sister got diagnosed not too long after that as having "anger control issues" but is taking a bi-polar medication to address the problem. this medication is to treat the mania side of BPD

with everything going on with the affair and my trying to get off one anti-depressant that wasn't working but gave me many side effects like sleeping even more and gaining tons of weight, and starting a new anti-depressant, i didn't follow through with this possibility

it took ALOT for me to approach my doctor over a month ago to reconsider my concerns about possible bi-polar disorder.

i've recently started taking the same medication that my sister takes. it is a mood stabilizer. (taking a mood stabilizer, anti-depressant, and ADHD medication... I feel like Elvis!)

since starting the new medication, i have noticed a big improvement in my mood stability and i react with anger less than before

i've also come a long way since interacting with many people here and reflecting on the thoughts shared (which is why i'm able to post this in the hopes of getting some honest and helpful thoughts)

i've considered posting this before but just wasn't "ready"

but then today i read that many times, NPD is misdiagnosed as Bipolar disorder

and i'm worried

i realize that by asking this question and admiting that it's a possibility.....i've pretty much gone against something that a person with NPD would do

but i truely wonder if i have NPD or at least too many of the characteristics (at least the counselor that my H and i were seeing didn't see this in me)

i also read about how to interact with a partner with NPD and discovered that this is pretty much exactly how my H has tried to interact with me since his A with OW started again after our false recovery. (honestly makes me wonder if he read a similar list and followed it to the letter) his responses and reactions to me were SO different than what i've ever seen.....and really, really just like the ones suggested

before he left, he even said that he knew i'd never go to counseling to get the help I really needed

makes me wonder if he, OW, or the counselor he started going to when his A started again came to the same discovery that I did-especially if he focused on my reactions to discovering the A which i admit were close to being insane....


the worst was when i asked for a kiss goodnight and he said "i just don't feel that way about you. I don't want to kiss you." and i replied "you should be glad i don't kill you in your sleep" (not my proudest moment by far but he hurt me sooo badly)

I know that he told EVERYONE in his family that i said that so i'm sure he told OW and the counselor...he told everyone that he was afraid to go to sleep in his own house

and i do think he WAS

and he said they advised him to leave for his own safety

crazy? or just temporary insanity?

is it really possible that i have NPD considering my whole life?

i'm not sure where i'm going with this....it's just something that i've wondered about since i first started getting more information about NPD and after reading tonight, i feel it even more strongly

i don't even know what i'm asking for from anyone here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

but any thoughts might be helpful. i'm just looking for other perspectives i guess.

i'm just trying to consider all possibilities in what things i need to do to work on "me"

ps
PLEASE DON'T suggest seeing a counselor to discuss my concerns....i have a HUGE mistrust of them based upon my experiences and i am not "there" yet....but i may get there if i continue to build upon these beliefs

but please realize that i've got alot to overcome in my feelings about counseling and i've got to do that in my own way in my own time (as Mimi says)

i hope and pray that my fears are just non-sense

from what i'm reading, the possibility of change doesn't sound promising









i hope i am NOT that person because i sure don't want to be

I don't think you are that person.

eav, I think that perhaps more than anyone else on these boards, you have examined yourself and your role in the demise of your marriage, in minute detail.

Narcissists don't do that. I am no expert, but it seems to me that those with NPD are pretty self absorbed, and incapable of the brave self-examination that you have displayed here.

JMVHO.

Alph.

Then you said


Uh, get it???

Anyway, for whatever it is worth, NPD is in all of us more or less. You are asking for us to agree or disagree with you based on what you have said. I dunno about the rest of those here, but I am NOT qualified to comment other than if you think you have a problem, get help.

That said, you may or may not be able to find counseling that is effective and not self serving as so many in that field tend to be.

On the other hand, most NPD are in complete denial and not gonna change a bit. If you are working on yourself to mitigage the more blatant of your tendencies, then I would guess you do not have full blown version thereof. Well, if you succeed in mitigating and not just blowing smoke.

Larry

Hello eav,

I, too, read the same articles that you speak of, and find bits and pieces of myself in them. I actually felt myself cringe at the possibility that I have treated people as NPD would dictate. Yuchkkk! I do not find, however, that I am unwilling to admit to them. I think a full blown NPD would deny deny deny.

Also, do you find yourself soaking up attention, affection wherever you can get it? Doesn't sound like you, from your recent posts. You sound like a giving woman; you took care of your father when he needed you most, even at the expense of your own sanity.

I can say, that it seems that from the time you began taking mood stabilizers, that you SOUND like you are making headway. As Hiker is very analytical about finding information about infidelity to better understand his sitch, I see you being HIGHLY introspective, to attain a similar goal. I've also noticed that you are more able to express yourself and take criticism on this forum. 'I' see changes in you; you are doing well.

I agree with Larry, NPD exists in all of us, to some extent...

I have worked in primary care for 26 years

I have yet to hear a narcissist worry they might be a narcissist

how about that?

Pep

My thoughts exactly.

One of the hallmarks of the narcissist is the complete lack of empathy for another human being. That does not sound like you at all. From what you have posted, you may have been somewhat immature and shallow for a time, but that is VERY common and does NOT make you a narcissist.

And FWIW, your bout of depression was not an excuse for your husband to leave you. It should have been just the opposite: You clearly needed him during that illness and he abandoned you cuz you just weren't no fun anymore. That's horrible. He had no right to do this. As your husband, he should have been there for you.
Mulan

Almost all active WSs would meet most criteria for NPD if they were in a position of being diagnosed.

And frankly...what you said about killing him in his sleep..that's pretty much par for the course too.

See the BS is not quite sane themselves.

I remember a particularly proud moment in a mexican restaraunt about 10 minutes after H told me OWs name..and our waitress had the same one [naturally!].

I had a mad laughing jag right there. Not a ha ha she's so cute and funny laughing fit...a crazed, manic, psychotic, can't stop, can't breath, people looking, waitress backing away FWH looking scared, LOUD, involuntary, laughs that are almost screams ..public laughing jag that just went on and on.

Not a pretty memory.

The stress of an affair creates a poor environment for emotional well being [she understated]...if you aren't hiring mercs, on drugs, or actively psychotic in your attempts to escape/retaliate you are probably doing about as well as can be expected.

Eav:

You are a special ed. teacher.

You ENJOY teaching AUTISTIC CHILDREN who GIVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING BACK IN RETURN...

YOU OF ALL PEOPLE ARE NOT NARCISSISTIC PD!!!

Tenderhearted...YES...

Easy to be taken advantage of by a Narcissist...YES...

I agree that WSes are being narcissistic when actively involved in their affair..my H who craved ADMIRATION certainly indulged in the endless supply SUPPOSEDLY provided by the OW..

I know that he is not NPD because he came to HATE the deceitfulness and DECADENCE of it when he had to live it 24/7....

He likes GIVING and DOING in order to be APPRECIATED, RESPECTED AND ADMIRED...with the OW..he became just a TAKER and not a GIVER..that didn't feel good to him...

Anyone with a minute amount of education in psychology can slap a label on someone. I won't go into detail but someone very close to me was labeled "paranoid-delusional scizophrenic" by a pre-med student with exactly the training offered in the "highly advanced college level study" of Psych 101. But once that label was affixed, every clinical psychologist, psychiatrist and other kind of degreed professional with MD or PhD printed on their door plaque - that was the diagnosis they also saw in this person. He was medicated, as required by 1986 insurance rules for inpatient treatment, for that diagnosis. But he didn't react the way scizophrenics react to that particular medication, and to counter that bad reaction, they brought in the heavy duty psychotropic drugs that were developed back in the 1940s - and then he really did become delusional.

When the label the pre-med student attached to this man finally got questioned and removed, they found an entirely different and treatable illness was the problem.

So your husband described a few of your "not at your best" behaviors - an amateur practitioner, who forgot his/her training that you don't offer a diagnosis without direct observation and testing... affixed a label to you.

Please don't make the same mistake of labeling yourself.

Just be the best you that you can be. You know when you are screwing up. You know when you are focused an unhealthy amount on things beyond your control. Work on those things. Improve your relationship with a higher power so that the labels others put on you can be ignored.

Read Max Lucado's book about Punchanello some time - about dots and stars - it will go much further than what you have read to improving your life.

AND PLUS...

I soooo regret to come here and learn that you are going in this direction, Eav...

to think so awfully of yourself....

this is an awful,awful diagnosis given to hurtful, heartless people who only think of themselves...

Eav, you are a caring, loving, sensitive SOUL who has been HURT AND BETRAYED by your LOVED ONES...As you know, I so identify with you....

Continue to move in the other direction, Eav..not BACK THERE where you take the blame for others faults and wrongdoings...this is what leads to OUR DEPRESSION, Eav...and it is NOT ATTRACTIVE...in fact, folks like us NEED TO LEARN HOW TO HAVE A LOVE AFFAIR WITH OURSELVES... ..we've been the OPPOSITE of NARCISSISTIC...

((((EAV))))

wow

so much to think about

alphin
thank you for calling my self examination brave....i call it long overdue and i'm so sorry that it took all of this to make it happen

larry
i was okay in individual counseling and in counseling with my H during our false recovery

i gave up on counselors when the A started again and after our first 45 minutes of "marriage counseling" with my H saying less than a complete sentence, the counselor announced that she didn't think our marriage could be saved but that she would be happy to counsel us through ending it

then she sent my H to another individual counselor that she thought would be a good match for him....one who had no knowledge of anything that had happended and who never talked with me....and advised my H (or supported his desire) to leave

it has nothing to do with me not wanting to accept or admit problems but it IS becausei don't believe that counselors are always the answer...they are just people with their own beliefs, values, and problems

just like all of us here

silent

i did put my father first....and you are right that it took alot from me to do that. i DO believe that when you love someone you care for them and about them...whenever they need you even you aren't getting back what you need at that time

i also think that i have made progress especially in the past few months

i appreciate your having used the word 'introspective"... i've been trying to find a way to describe what i feel like i'm needing to do as i work through all that has happened and try to get from it what is most helpful to me

mulan and pepper

is it that a person with NPD doesn't think they have a problem or just doesn't care?

immature and shallow is a very good way to describe how i have behaved...my SIL told me that she thought i had grown up alot since this all happened and my H and OW were still immature and selfish

but it still feels like i'm being selfish when i consider all the things that i've done to try to save my marraige because it si what I want even if my H doesn't

noodle
thank you much for telling me that the BS in an affair often feels this kind of extreme....i'm ashamed of the things that i said and did and feel like i'm the only one who acted that way....even when OWH broke all the windows out of my H truck with a baseball bat and beat the crap out of my H.....i just thought he was as nuts as i was

as mimi knows, i even hit my h when i discovered the A... and that kind of shame eats away at a person and makes you question your sanity

Kayla
you have a very good point...i am the first to admit that a counselor doesn't always know what they are talking about based upon my experiences

i am just trying to make the kind of changes that need to be made and the fear of NPD has been there since i first started reading about it

mimi

teaching special children is about giving...but i still take away so much from it

i agree but guess i still can't accept that my H is nothing but a taker now

i'm honestly just trying to find out how to be the best me i can be and that means considering anything that's a possibility even if it's not what i'd want to hear about myself

((((eav))))


to me, you are a beautiful person...so sharing...I hope that I give as much as you. Have you ever considered that you gave too much, to everyone else, even your H, and forgot yourself...there's probably some truth in it?

You take away from teaching children with special needs because you are a wonderful human being. I know how frustrating it can be to try and teach my own son, so what you do is amazing. You are filled up by these children because you genuinely care.

I'll be keeping my eye on you; I feel very close to your sitch, as it certainly mirrors many of the demons I'm dealing with. It's so strange how we all find eachother here...

I think NPD is a continuum rather than an absolute.It is true that for our own self preservation we all need to have some of those characteristics

Really extreme examples are psychopaths and at the other end saints
I figure we are all somewhere on a line between MotherTeresa and Hitler

Eav,

In the last three years my husband has seen three different IC. One said he had no "diagnosable" mental health issue. Another said he had NPD. And the latest has diagnosed him as bi-polar and ADD.

There's a lot of cross-over in symptoms between NPD and bi-polar. If the mood stabilizers are working for you, I'd say that's pretty good evidence that what you have is a mood disorder rather than a character disorder. Especially with your sister having that diagnosis, since bi-polar disorder has a strong genetic component.

Tru

thank you for your kindness silent

the children i teach are a gift that each of their parents share with me

i am lucky to be part of their lives

and much to my surprise i love teaching kindergarten!

...............
myopia

that makes sense

maybe this is similar to the "taker" in all of us since a WS exhibits more of these than they did before

..............

trubluz

you can always find a doctor to say whatever you want to hear and they each say something different

EAV1967 - can you tell me where you got this info on narcissism? Those traits eerily describe my H and am wanting to read more on it. Thanks!

Hi Callie,
Google narcassistic personality disorder or check out www.bpdcentral.com

Eav- my mother suffered from a narcassistic personality disorder and you sound nothing like her. She never even got up with her kids in the middle of the night when they were sick much less teach kindergarten or special ed!

i found the sites on this thread by Mulan. NARCISSISM

thanks coachswife!