brief update. my WS is moving into her apt tomorrow. has had 4 mos A with classmate. says "on paper" her life is perfect, me, kids, home, chance at 2nd career. says she thinks I am her soulmate but she needs to "work on feelings for OP" I have been in plan A, mos 1 I did a lot of LBing./ mos 2 fair plan A,/ mos 3 stellar plan A. only she has not been able to maintain boundaries with OP. (freq.sleep overs, calling texting in front of me, on my phone). so finally I had it, and calmly asked her to leave.

the whole time WS has been cake eating, fence riding has been intimate but no SF, warm cuddling, affectionate at times. then freq withdrawal at times. now that we are approaching the move she has been very needy, asking me for help with everything, (money orders for her new apt, help with moving) acting as if we will be spending time together after the move. Talking about what to have for dinner next week. Seeming very attatched

of note: WS has been going through MLC IMO, friend died at age 43, no job, new career choice, will turn 40 herself this year. family issues with abandonment of parents from Div and death she has never dealt with.. my WS has had history of panic attacks in past, almost to agoraphobia, is very afraid of being on her own, never likes to sleep alone in the house. this move will be highly stressful for her. So this is my question. Is she just trying to hold on for dear life? Or is this real regret I am seeing? I am having a very hard time shaking her as this attention feels very good. And I want it so bad, as my LB is low low low .

will this need for attention continue during plan B??, should I be there for her and stay in plan A for a while to meet her needs?? Should I view this as real progress or just her fear of being alone? I want plan B, I need plan B. but I want to be sure, and I know it will be extremely difficult to stay dark.

Btw, I have a plan B letter pretty much outlined, just have to reorganize it. It can be ready for tomorrow, which is what I had planned. Any advice????

Don't go into Plan B until you can do it dark and flawlessly. I think you have too many doubts still. In a good Plan B, you would be completely dark to her. The only conversation would be business about the kids.

Stop helping her move. She's a big girl - let her face the consequences.

I used to have horrible panic attacks. Anti-D's make them go away.

thanks for your input believer, I do have doubts, but I don't know if I ever will be absolutely positive about removing her from my life. I am very codependent, and if I gave myself enough rope would probably hang myself, I have been helping her get her place ready, put together furniture, and such. I have the need to be needed. thats why I have had such a hard time with the plan A boundaries. and now that she is needy, I am feeling so much better, my cycle would be to help her with everything this week, and then next week when her behavior changes back to withdrawal, I will be devastated again. this has been my typical reaction to her fog, non fog behavior.

I guess I want to plan B now when I am feeling vulnerable, because It will give me more strength and I will know it is right, I don't want to do it when I am feeling hurt. like in reaction to her. I don't know that I could ever do plan B without doubt or remorse, I am just not built that way. if she asked, I would prob be her doormat for life. that was the old me. I guess I am afraid to let go as much as she is. one thing I do know, is that I want off the roller coaster.

it helps to talk it out like this, thanks for being a sounding board.

the more I consider it, plan B is right for me, sometime this week. believer you are right, I need to stop helping her. I guess its just so darn hard right now. I feel like this could be the worst day of my life. I am so discouraged. I want my W back. 15 years is a long time. hard to stay positive, hard not to run to her a beg her back. I know thats not the way, i have a plan, just don't really want to do it.

FB, make sure you're ready for Plan B. I'm no expert, but it sounds like you might not be ready. Maybe you shouldn't start Plan B at the same time that she moves out. Maybe give it a couple of weeks and see how it feels, and maybe it will be easier to Plan A with her not there all the time. Maybe moving out will be enough of a shock to her system that Plan A will start working for you. It might be worth a couple of weeks to see. Plus, it sounds like maybe your WW is in conflict? Sleeping in the same bed and cuddling is more physical contact than I have gotten in, what, 9 months?

Just make sure you're ready.

Fightingback:

I think it was very nice of you to get the new lovenest ready.

Are you going to stop by and prepare breakfast for the new lovebirds?

Fightingback:

You are moving her out because of the reasons you stated in your first post. She is fence-sitting, cake-eating and loving every minute of it. Put the line down and stand behind it. Please!

Get her into her new place and Plan B her. SHe has to realize the effect of her CHOICES.

You will hurt. And she will call and ask you to do whatever, and you are to IGNORE her.

I think your plan B will only have to go about two weeks before she caves.

And do not pay her rent.....

Only do Plan B if you can do a good plan B. If you jump when she wants something then you might as well be in plan W (whipped). I know it's hard and I know you like to get any feelings from her right now, but you deserve much more from a wife.

Don't help her move, pay for anything or even be home when she moves. Watch your bank acc, she may need to buy a few things with your M $. Change the money over if need be.

Now if you don't think you can handle a good plan B then stay in plan A for a while and call Steve Harley.

Too many times I've read where the BS starts plan B and the Harleys tell them to go back to plan A. MWIL is one that comes to mind.

Lousygolfer, thanks for the 2x4!! I needed to hear that.

M2L, you are right, of course, I have been pretty whipped this week, I have trouble with the boundaries of plan A. I think if I could enforce them a little then it may be a nice step toward plan B. I will have more of a chance to enforce boundaries as she has stated she wont get paid for 2 wks and may need some help. I am prepared to say "not from me" My finances are secure!! she has no access. I have my own accounts, credit cards as such. she has a savings account she can live on until her 1st paycheck.

thanks SDG, I may give it a week or 2 and see how it goes. from what I hear you only get 1 chance to do a great plan B. I want mine to be strong.

she has tried to call me today and I let my phone go to voicemail. I am at work, she has the kids.

helping her move yesterday was difficult for me. but I did better in the afternoon. after I left she called me within 5 min of me leaving, and then 20 minutes later, to ask if I knew where her wedding rings were?#*!? is she kidding? she hasn't worn them in over 6 mos. WTF!!!!!!????????
I then asked her not to call me again that evening. she sounded pretty freaked out. but I know OP was soon to be there to offer comfort. ughhhh!!!!!!

Stay in Plan A until you are stronger. Stop helping her. If you feel the need to help someone, go work at a homeless shelter. Let her feel the consequences of her behavior.

FB,

I am not totally familiar with your situation....just read this thread.

Unless WW agrees to NC with OP...forget about working on M!

As far as I know, PLAN A does not mean you have to 'help' WW with moving out and set up lovenest...as has been already stated....

She is moving out because she will not respect your boundary...NC with OP...so...let HER handle HER choices....

As far as PLAN B goes....I agree with everybody...if you can afford it....talk to Steve about it... and I suggest you don't do it unless you are ready for it....as PLAN B is hard to stick to unless you are DETERMINED and FOCUSED... because you will have to not only live through your own withdrawal of WW...but at the same time, expect WW to attempt to have you break PLAN B.... tough gig...I say!

...and each time WS succeeds in getting BS to break PLAN B....it shows WS you have a 'weak link', and WW will not take your boundary..... NC with OP....very seriously....

...it allows WW to continue thinking and holding on to her cake-eating ways....which I believe is the objective of all WS's.....

I don't want to discourage you...but PLAN B for me is mostly to stop WS from continuing to 'hurt' BS and get LBank in the red, if it's not already....due to extreme selfishness....it's like a 'means' of protection for BS from WS and from oneself....as it should help to keep BS 'in line'.....

...if BS can stick to PLAN B, it forces 'reality' onto the 'illusionary' life WS would like to be living - BS choosing not to continue to be part of their life - removing oneself from triangle seeing that WS is refusing to do it with NC with OP - is the best shot LEFT to 'end' A.....

In case it might help you, please realize that anything related to an A is a marathon of sorts.....my WS got involved in a romantic affair.....a real 'killer' for M....the hardest to break.....now, two yrs after D-day....info from the grapevine seems to suggest that WS is just starting to realize the consequences of his choices.... loss of family and, after many attempts, having to accept that I, BS, choose NOT to be any R with him as long as OP is in the picture.... the cost continues to get 'higher' while the OW, losing the 'halo' of the illusion of the A, turns out to be more more only a 'human' after all.....

The way I see it, my 20 yr M compared to the A....was like comparing apples and oranges.....after 2 yrs the A, confronted by reality, is getting to be more of an apple....meaning..... more on even grounds with our M...... and so the 'loss' and the cost of the A is more and more evident....as time goes by.....

So....bottom line....can't 'hurry' anything.... so...try to not loose any sleep over this....it's a longhaul....whichever way you look at it...... hope my being 'brutally' honest does not discourage you too much....

...know that I am at a very GOOD PLACE.....thanks to PLAN B.... and proud to have succeeded in removing myself from what had become a very 'toxic' relationship.... as part of a triangle.....

...and getting stronger every day!

...give your PLAN A your best shot....if you want to stay in it...but give yourself a timeframe.....because the day you choose to go to PLAN B....there should be NO TURNING BACK!

Good luck FB.... choosing to go to PLAN B is like getting at a crossroad.... where you respect yourself enough....no matter how hard it is to envision life without WW..... to choose NOT to follow or suppport WS in its 'cake-eating' road....and choosing to go ahead ALONE if need be...

Just tell yourself...that if others have done it....you can, too!

I strongly support going to PLAN B once PLAN A does not budge a WS to jump into the recovery side of M and NC with OP....and when BS is ready for the CHALLENGE of PLAN B...and not before!

Sorry buddy to see you in this predicament....but you WILL make it....believe me!

...and sorry for the long post....

FB:

Stay Strong.

This was good:




And I know that this sounds bad:



But guess what, WS will only talk to OW about you....Because you are in her head.

And do not visit, assist, pay, drop kids at, or pick up kids from, her place.

Remember, two weeks....

lousy golfer, lunamare, SDG thanks for your input

I did good just now, she has the kids at her place, asked me to pick them up on my way home, I know OP will be there, I just said. "I will not go to your apt when you have company, its your responsibility to get them home safely." and promptly ended the conversation.
she proceeded to call me back and appologize for being insensitive to my feelings and called herself an a55.

I can do this for 2 weeks. then be ready for plan B
no visits, no drop off, pick up. no helping
her choice, her choice!!!!
I may print these posts to read over when I wake up to keep them in my head. it is crazy but sometimes I feel like I am in the fog. I know what I need to do, then its like one glance/touch and I am hooked again.

the realization that I have to go through withdrawal too is helpful. if I know to expect that, then I will be able to prepare and be stronger.

btw, she wanted to have a group of friends over for the game today and guess what? none of our friends wanted to be around OP, so no football party today!!!! just the lovers with my kids in tow. uggghh1!!! how fun is that in a 600sq foot 1 bedroom apt and a 3,4 and 8yrold???

having a small victory party for myself on that one
score BS-1 WS-zip

Lunamare I appreciate your input,


this is what I need to focus on. I am having a hard time getting WS to commit to things such as time frames for weekend visitation, she just wants to play it by ear. ie: see what OP is doing first. I had to force her into commiting to a chunk of time tomorrow. I stood my ground. "you can have the kids from 12-4pm. we will meet halfway at a local store for pick-up." all she could do was agree.

the next week will allow me to finalize how we are going to handle the weekends, then with that laid out, I will be able to plan B more effectively, and stay dark, very dark.

I would like to attatch my original thread but I don't know how. Lunamare my title is "what a difference a week makes, and a strong plan A" I will try to bump it up, if you are at all interested. thanks again for your input.

This is great! There is nothing like 3 active children crowded into a small space to kill the romance. You stated that one of the reasons that WS likes OP is because OP is is childless. The affair is only good because they don't have to deal with the reality of everyday life. When your WS is living with you and the kiddos it's easy for her to pretend that she is single and swinging with you as a built in babysitter.

Give it time their vacation in fantasy land isn't going to last much longer.

Hi FB,

Alright...got caught up...read your other thread....



...uhmmmm....please continue to NOT 'enable' A....by NOT protecting WS from the reality and consequences of her choices....

..the expression....'be careful for what you ask for...you may just get it!' applies.....a WS does not make an 'informed' life choice.... only based on 'illusion' of A..... and so WS neglects to look at the 'reality' of their choices..... in the case of an A...the best a BS can do is to allow that to happen....there is nowhere to go but...'down'.....sooner or...later!

....and from what I have read...WS and OP already don't seem to get along.....



This is going to be important to do, FB, the clearer the better....and find someone willing to be an intermediary so that 'no direct' contact will be necessary between you and WS...

...do not be surprised if your WS 'assumes' that you would be willing to do friendly co-parenting for the sake of the kids (even though it's really to facilitate A and help maintain illusion of A longer).... and it will be important for you to make that very clear....but do EXPECT WS to want to 'guilt-trip' you into doing it... especially knowing how important the kids' well-being is to you...

Have you prepared a PBL? ...there are a few threads on the subject....and Foxandhound1 has also just prepared one...

Remember....a short and to the point PBL is best...

You are getting great advice...I know it's tough....but you will get through this...

P.S....sorry for calling you 'buddy'... and glad I got that straightened out!

Lunamare, you must be clairvoyant as I just got played huge by my MIL and WS.

we had a huge ice storm today up in new england and my MIL lives in an inlaw apartment in my basement. she started panicking after being in the house with no power for 4 hrs that she called WS, stating she wouldn't be able to watch the kids tomorrow seeing as there was no heat/electricity.
and that we all had to pack up and head to WS's place because she had power.

of course WS has been alone in apt today with kids, has told friend that she missed me and wanted us all to sleep over, told me I was being ridiculous, and stubborn for not wanting to come, think of the kids, her mother was having anxiety, and then got my kids scared to be in the dark house.

all overworked btw, they were working on the electricity. so I packed up my MIL and kids and promptly dropped them at WS's apt. then proceeded to leave.
WS was stunned "where are you going?"
BS "to stay with a friend, I can't stay here, I am too uncomfortable"
WS "you are being ridiculous"
BS "really, would you like to sleep in a bed after I had been there with another person??"
then a lot of fog talk, "I guess you don't want to work this out then" ?$%^&?
crazy talk.

I pretty much told her I loved her and only her and she knew that, that I would work fully on our M but only if there were 2 people involved, I wouldn't participate in a R with her when she was still involved with OP.
SSDD

she hung up angry and I am at our friends house tonight. she has kids and her crazy mom in her apt. and a long day tomorrow. I know she is angry because she needs emotional support from me and I am not there to dole it out.

today was tough, and it was hard even being at her place but I am glad I left. gosh I hope the week gets better.

sorry for the long post, and btw I do have a PBL letter, It is way too fluffy though, long on the love and short on the stick, so I need to tone it down a bit. it has all the key points. I will try to post it this week and try to get feedback, thanks for all your help guys. OH, and for any football fans GO PATS

That was too funny! Now its the kids AND the mom in the lovenest. You are doing very good. Stay calm and don't give up. I can just IMAGINE that scene.

thanks for validating me believer, I almost thought they were right last night. that maybe I was being ridiculous. it was tough because even my MIL (who has very crippling anxiety) wanted me to stay at lovenest.

I had a realization that my MIL is also dependent on me for emotional support, safety and that might be why she wanted me to stay close by. of course the kids wanted me there as well. it was difficult to look at all 5 of these people who were sucking every ounce of life out of me (btw, my kids I willingly give to). 2 adults, however should be able to handle a lttle power outage without coming undone. but thinking back, they have not had to do that without me in a long time, I imagine it was scary for them to be without me. I am sort of the grounded, calm one.

I had a very restful night at my friends. and I am proud that I had the courage to actually do what was best for me in that sitch. something I always have a hard time with, taking care of my EN's